Just got my carry permit illegally seized by deputy. (Video)

[77BD]

Probably a troll, but Ill bite.



If you are who I think you are, you should know that citizens are not required to answer questions. And the OP has the right to say whatever he likes. There is also no law requiring us to be cooperative. The OP was right, your co-worker was wrong.

And those youtube videos that you mention of people getting "served" are videos of police employees breaking the law. Call it what you want, but we all know what is happening. And if you support that, or are a part of it when it happens, then you sir, are criminal as well.



Ignorance of the law...hmm..seems to work both ways in the OP video. Except the OP wasn't actually breaking any laws, the servant was.



It matters not what the public knows is legal or not. It falls to the 911 operator and to responding officers to educate the citizens of the city about the legality of it. Earlier you mentioned "Serve and Protect". Well, that goes for everyone. Not just the sheep that call in because someone is exercising their rights in a way they dont like.



The 2nd Amendment says "shall not be infringed". That means he can carry his guns, any of them, any damned way he pleases, regardless of what you, or some soccer mom thinks.

I know you're probably a troll. And you are just trying to get a rise out of us. But the fact of the matter is; open carry and the 2nd Amendment are here to stay. If you decide that our exercise of the 2nd Amendment is too much for you to handle, then move to one of those countries that have disarmed their populace, including their police. I am sure you'll feel much safer.

And I agree with JoeSparky. Probably a co-worker or possibly even the servant seen in the OP video.

I don't know who you think I am but, I doubt I'm that guy. I don't work with Rick. As mentioned earlier, I know him from school and haven't talked to him in about 25 years. I grew up in Le Mars, but don't live there. I know people that know the OP because of his open carry. The OP is well within his right to open carry and Rick was incorrect to take the courtesy card. I don't think that's even a debate.

My beef is how this whole video and reaction even came about. The OP open carries, the police know this and they get calls about a man with a gun repeatedly when he open carries. When the police stop to talk to him, he videos them. Fine he can do that, but why? Is he trying to get a rise out of the officer? Is he trying to get an officer to slip up? Why video every encounter? What's he worried about if he is within the law? What's the point?

Why open carry an AR-15? This website discourages it.

http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=1165

Carrying an AR-15 around isn't drawing attention to an issue, he is scaring the $hit out of people. What good can come of that? When people get scared, they become compelled to do what they feel is necessary to stop it.

I never said I supported the police doing what is seen on other youtube videos. I don't support people acting like fools either. What's the saying: you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. You keep playing this bait the law enforcement game, you may wind up hurt or dead. Why even play that game? What good can come of it? Even if you are within your rights, common sense tells me not to poke a bear with a stick.

I obtained my CC permit a couple months ago along with a permit to purchase a handgun. I've never felt the need to do that in my adult live and I'm in my mid-40s. Why now? What made me do it? It was because of the gut feeling that things are changing in this country and not for the better. It was because I feel like I needed to in order to protect me and my family. It was because my gut is telling me that if I don't do it now I may not be able to in the near future, the window is closing. When I see a guy parading around with an AR-15, I see that window closing even faster. There are far more people that are becoming more anti-gun by the day thanks to mainstream media and lunatics going on killing sprees. And those anti-gunners will push harder and harder to 'protect the children' and take away our rights. I believe that open carrying an AR-15 is pushing people in the wrong direction harder and faster.

I'm not a troll, I saw a link to this forum over on arfcom. I haven't read through many of the threads here. I stated I was opening a can worms because my feeling that any comment made that questioned open carry was going to be met with disgust. I'm here laying out my thoughts on why I think the OP was wrong. I know a little more about the story than most here since Le Mars where I grew up and still have friends and family there. I detect that the OP's open carry is having more of a negative effect in Le Mars than a positive one.

 

[77BD]

Not demonstrating it in this thread IMO.

So, basically, you are saying I'm un-american? Wow.

I see that I don't need to look into this site any further since freedom of speech isn't allowed here unless it agrees with you. That will keep the discussion interesting.

Good luck to you.

 

[The Truth]

Did this guy really just complain about 1st Amendment rights in the same breath as his stifling of the OCer's 1st Amendment rights? We got a winner, boys!

 

[WalkingWolf]

So, basically, you are saying I'm un-american? Wow.

I see that I don't need to look into this site any further since freedom of speech isn't allowed here unless it agrees with you. That will keep the discussion interesting.

Good luck to you.

Have you read the bill of rights? I am sure a moderator will be along soon to tell you about your first amendment rights on a privately owned internet site.

It helps to know what you are talking about, might save you some embarrassment.

 

[Grapeshot]

--snipped--
I see that I don't need to look into this site any further since freedom of speech isn't allowed here unless it agrees with you. .

Have you read the bill of rights? I am sure a moderator will be along soon to tell you about your first amendment rights on a privately owned internet site.

It helps to know what you are talking about, might save you some embarrassment.

True - OCDO is not a free speech, anything goes site. There are limits and controls agreed to by all when they register. See Forum Rules.

That said, we do not try to stifle legitimate conversation about on topic issues; however, facts carry more weight than feelings, emotions, opinions or "once upon a time" stories.

Yes long guns are off topic here, but the expression/use of the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Amend. in public is not. We allow, if not actually encourage, dissenting posters insofar as personal attacks and insults are avoided AND such are not beaten into the ground with excessive repetition.

 

[JoeSparky]

Nope, I'm not Rick Singer. I know Rick, i went to school with him. I haven't talked to him in over 25 years. He was the last guy I would've ever thought that would've gotten into law enforcement. Serving in the army probably did that too him.

As far as who shares the same epidermis, clothing, shower and employment as the OP - see the news article.

I did not suggest that the OP was "Rick Singer!"

OH, in case you missed it the "OEO" term is a less than "glowing' reference to a Law Enforcement Officer who fails by enforcing OPINION not Law!

 

[Tucker6900]

Nope, I'm not Rick Singer. I know Rick, i went to school with him. I haven't talked to him in over 25 years. He was the last guy I would've ever thought that would've gotten into law enforcement. Serving in the army probably did that too him.

As far as who shares the same epidermis, clothing, shower and employment as the OP - see the news article.

Well, as his closest (from here) friend, I would suggest you tell him to go back to the academy, read some basic law manuals, and come back to see us when he thinks he has it figured out.

Oh, and by the way. I have three children. And whenever one of them uses details about a subject that I have not mentioned, i.e. name dropping, I know they are not telling the truth.

 

[Tucker6900]

I did not suggest that the OP was "Rick Singer!"

OH, in case you missed it the "OEO"

You know, I spent the better part of an hour thinking about what that stood for. I like it!

 

[77BD]

I did not suggest that the OP was "Rick Singer!"

I know that, I don't know where anyone implied that the OP was Rick Singer.

You were implying that the 'troll' (the label that apparently given to me by an earlier poster) was Rick Singer. I'm not him.

By using the same wording that was used to accuse me as being Rick Singer; I was implying that the OP was the individual identified in the siouxlandnews.com article was linked in my first post.

 

[77BD]

Well, as his closest (from here) friend, I would suggest you tell him to go back to the academy, read some basic law manuals, and come back to see us when he thinks he has it figured out.

Oh, and by the way. I have three children. And whenever one of them uses details about a subject that I have not mentioned, i.e. name dropping, I know they are not telling the truth.

OK, so I'm a troll, un-american, a possible criminal and now a liar.

So, what am I lying about? If you know, then tell me? I was accused of being Rick, I'm not him. I was being truthful that I know him because I went to school with him 27 years ago. I may have said 'hi' to him at the Plymouth County Fair many years ago. I have no personal relationship with Rick. So, what am I lying about?

There is a post out there from last night that is still being reviewed by a moderator. I don't know if it will ever make it here. It talks a little bit about me and why I made the comments I did in my original post.

 

[Grapeshot]

--snipped--
There is a post out there from last night that is still being reviewed by a moderator. I don't know if it will ever make it here. It talks a little bit about me and why I made the comments I did in my original post.

Sorry about the delay. I missed the notification. Your post has been approved and appears as post #42 on this thread.

 

[77BD]

True - OCDO is not a free speech, anything goes site. There are limits and controls agreed to by all when they register. See Forum Rules.

That said, we do not try to stifle legitimate conversation about on topic issues; however, facts carry more weight than feelings, emotions, opinions or "once upon a time" stories.

Yes long guns are off topic here, but the expression/use of the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] Amend. in public is not. We allow, if not actually encourage, dissenting posters insofar as personal attacks and insults are avoided AND such are not beaten into the ground with excessive repetition.

That's fair, the use of freedom of speech was a poor choice of words on my part. I was not trying to inject the 1st Amendment into the discussion. I'm a first time poster with a point of view that may appear to not agree with several long time posters. Like other forums, that allows long time posters to throw out the 'troll' label, doesn't surprise me, it's expected.

In short, my point is that the OP is baiting/trolling the people on this board, same as he's baiting the local LEO and posting his gotcha videos. Playing a dangerous game. Open carrying an AR-15 and scaring people is doing more harm than good.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I don't know who you think I am but, I doubt I'm that guy. I don't work with Rick. As mentioned earlier, I know him from school and haven't talked to him in about 25 years. I grew up in Le Mars, but don't live there. I know people that know the OP because of his open carry. The OP is well within his right to open carry and Rick was incorrect to take the courtesy card. I don't think that's even a debate.

My beef is how this whole video and reaction even came about. The OP open carries, the police know this and they get calls about a man with a gun repeatedly when he open carries. When the police stop to talk to him, he videos them. Fine he can do that, but why? Is he trying to get a rise out of the officer? Is he trying to get an officer to slip up? Why video every encounter? What's he worried about if he is within the law? What's the point?

Why open carry an AR-15? This website discourages it.

http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=1165

Carrying an AR-15 around isn't drawing attention to an issue, he is scaring the $hit out of people. What good can come of that? When people get scared, they become compelled to do what they feel is necessary to stop it.

I never said I supported the police doing what is seen on other youtube videos. I don't support people acting like fools either. What's the saying: you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. You keep playing this bait the law enforcement game, you may wind up hurt or dead. Why even play that game? What good can come of it? Even if you are within your rights, common sense tells me not to poke a bear with a stick.

I obtained my CC permit a couple months ago along with a permit to purchase a handgun. I've never felt the need to do that in my adult live and I'm in my mid-40s. Why now? What made me do it? It was because of the gut feeling that things are changing in this country and not for the better. It was because I feel like I needed to in order to protect me and my family. It was because my gut is telling me that if I don't do it now I may not be able to in the near future, the window is closing. When I see a guy parading around with an AR-15, I see that window closing even faster. There are far more people that are becoming more anti-gun by the day thanks to mainstream media and lunatics going on killing sprees. And those anti-gunners will push harder and harder to 'protect the children' and take away our rights. I believe that open carrying an AR-15 is pushing people in the wrong direction harder and faster.

I'm not a troll, I saw a link to this forum over on arfcom. I haven't read through many of the threads here. I stated I was opening a can worms because my feeling that any comment made that questioned open carry was going to be met with disgust. I'm here laying out my thoughts on why I think the OP was wrong. I know a little more about the story than most here since Le Mars where I grew up and still have friends and family there. I detect that the OP's open carry is having more of a negative effect in Le Mars than a positive one.

This site does NOT discourage the carry of long guns, it does in most cases limit the discussion to responsible carry of holstered handguns. Recording is a right, just like carry, if your friend does not like it, he should find a different line of work. No justification is needed for any lawful activity, or exercising a right, that includes recording.

For most of us who have been here for a while advise to record, record, record. For myself it is something that I never leave home without, there is no reason for anybody without a reasonable expectation of privacy to complain of recording.

You can claim you are not a troll, but after your finger pointing post, you are going to have to prove it. The post was clearly a post intended to provoke.

ETA my advise to people who are bothered by law abiding citizens exercising their rights in the manner they choose to stay at home.

 

[Tucker6900]

My beef is how this whole video and reaction even came about. The OP open carries, the police know this and they get calls about a man with a gun repeatedly when he open carries. When the police stop to talk to him, he videos them. Fine he can do that, but why? Is he trying to get a rise out of the officer? Is he trying to get an officer to slip up? Why video every encounter? What's he worried about if he is within the law? What's the point?

Protection. That is the answer you are looking for. It protects the citizen, as well as the police employee. If the servant decided to beat this man within an inch of his life for arguing, standing his ground, etc, there would be evidence. And given recent, certain circumstances, you cannot deny that could happen. If the citizen decided he was going to join the crazies out there threatening and killing cops, there would be evidence. If anything, you should be supporting it. If not, why are you not complaining about dash cams in cruisers? Its the same thing.

Carrying an AR-15 around isn't drawing attention to an issue, he is scaring the $hit out of people. What good can come of that? When people get scared, they become compelled to do what they feel is necessary to stop it.

It is absolutely drawing attention to an issue. You're here...talking about it...and I am sure there is a complaint at the Sheriff's department. The link you posted of the guy open carrying an AR...you guessed it...drew attention to the exact issue at hand. And you made the point for me. The issue here, from what is becoming more of majority than a minority, is not the gun, but the reaction to it. The soccer moms you mentioned have every right to be be scared, just like he has every right to carry that rifle.

And I absolutely agree that scared people do stupid things.

I never said I supported the police doing what is seen on other youtube videos. I don't support people acting like fools either. What's the saying: you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. You keep playing this bait the law enforcement game, you may wind up hurt or dead. Why even play that game? What good can come of it? Even if you are within your rights, common sense tells me not to poke a bear with a stick.

Why not bait them? They do it to us. They wait for us to break the law, then punish us. I think that maybe less than half the videos out there are actual videos of people looking for a payday. The rest fall into the categories of education and protection.

I obtained my CC permit a couple months ago along with a permit to purchase a handgun. I've never felt the need to do that in my adult live and I'm in my mid-40s. Why now? What made me do it? It was because of the gut feeling that things are changing in this country and not for the better. It was because I feel like I needed to in order to protect me and my family. It was because my gut is telling me that if I don't do it now I may not be able to in the near future, the window is closing. When I see a guy parading around with an AR-15, I see that window closing even faster. There are far more people that are becoming more anti-gun by the day thanks to mainstream media and lunatics going on killing sprees. And those anti-gunners will push harder and harder to 'protect the children' and take away our rights. I believe that open carrying an AR-15 is pushing people in the wrong direction harder and faster.

Do you live in Iowa? What do you need a carry and purchase permit for? A little bit of research would show you that your carry permit IS your purchase permit.

And again, something else we agree on. This country is quickly coming to the point that we may need to defend ourselves without our lawfully kept arms. And I applaud you for taking that step. Personally, I hope to see more people carrying rifles (please forgive the long gun talk). And I would truly love to see police departments making changes in their response to MWAG calls. Ive seen it in Michigan and North Carolina, and it can happen here to.

I'm not a troll, I saw a link to this forum over on arfcom. I haven't read through many of the threads here. I stated I was opening a can worms because my feeling that any comment made that questioned open carry was going to be met with disgust. I'm here laying out my thoughts on why I think the OP was wrong. I know a little more about the story than most here since Le Mars where I grew up and still have friends and family there. I detect that the OP's open carry is having more of a negative effect in Le Mars than a positive one.

A tip for the future. Opening a can of worms is one things. But a "drive by posting", which is what your OP appeared to be, makes you look trollish. And trolls get treated with disgust. I apologize for coming off in a harsh manner.

I would love to see an Open Carry Picnic in Le Mars. Instead of fueling the fear fire, maybe we can change some minds.

 

[JoeSparky]

I don't know who you think I am but, I doubt I'm that guy. I don't work with Rick. As mentioned earlier, I know him from school and haven't talked to him in about 25 years. I grew up in Le Mars, but don't live there. I know people that know the OP because of his open carry. The OP is well within his right to open carry and Rick was incorrect to take the courtesy card. I don't think that's even a debate.

My beef is how this whole video and reaction even came about. The OP open carries, the police know this and they get calls about a man with a gun repeatedly when he open carries. When the police stop to talk to him, he videos them. Fine he can do that, but why? Is he trying to get a rise out of the officer? Is he trying to get an officer to slip up? Why video every encounter? What's he worried about if he is within the law? What's the point?

Why open carry an AR-15? This website discourages it.

http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=1165

Carrying an AR-15 around isn't drawing attention to an issue, he is scaring the $hit out of people. What good can come of that? When people get scared, they become compelled to do what they feel is necessary to stop it.

I never said I supported the police doing what is seen on other youtube videos. I don't support people acting like fools either. What's the saying: you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. You keep playing this bait the law enforcement game, you may wind up hurt or dead. Why even play that game? What good can come of it? Even if you are within your rights, common sense tells me not to poke a bear with a stick.

I obtained my CC permit a couple months ago along with a permit to purchase a handgun. I've never felt the need to do that in my adult live and I'm in my mid-40s. Why now? What made me do it? It was because of the gut feeling that things are changing in this country and not for the better. It was because I feel like I needed to in order to protect me and my family. It was because my gut is telling me that if I don't do it now I may not be able to in the near future, the window is closing. When I see a guy parading around with an AR-15, I see that window closing even faster. There are far more people that are becoming more anti-gun by the day thanks to mainstream media and lunatics going on killing sprees. And those anti-gunners will push harder and harder to 'protect the children' and take away our rights. I believe that open carrying an AR-15 is pushing people in the wrong direction harder and faster.

I'm not a troll, I saw a link to this forum over on arfcom. I haven't read through many of the threads here. I stated I was opening a can worms because my feeling that any comment made that questioned open carry was going to be met with disgust. I'm here laying out my thoughts on why I think the OP was wrong. I know a little more about the story than most here since Le Mars where I grew up and still have friends and family there. I detect that the OP's open carry is having more of a negative effect in Le Mars than a positive one.

So answer me this--- IF the police know this guy, have spoken with him many/several times while he is lawfully OC'ing and have not determined that he is a risk to himself or others and is not violating any laws/regulation with his carry and demeanor, just WHY are they continuing to subject this individual to the harassment and interruptions of his peaceful and lawful activities---- seems to do so would subject them to complaints and accusations of interfering with the exercise of some Constitutionally protected rights to me. Also, would seem to earn them the title of being OEO's.

 

[77BD]

This site does NOT discourage the carry of long guns, it does in most cases limit the discussion to responsible carry of holstered handguns. Recording is a right, just like carry, if your friend does not like it, he should find a different line of work. No justification is needed for any lawful activity, or exercising a right, that includes recording.

For most of us who have been here for a while advise to record, record, record. For myself it is something that I never leave home without, there is no reason for anybody without a reasonable expectation of privacy to complain of recording.

You can claim you are not a troll, but after your finger pointing post, you are going to have to prove it. The post was clearly a post intended to provoke.

ETA my advise to people who are bothered by law abiding citizens exercising their rights in the manner they choose to stay at home.

I stand corrected, 'not promote' does not necessarily mean 'discourage'.

I apparently will always be a 'troll' in your eyes. I've responded to most of the posts directed at me. I didn't hit and run. If that isn't enough for you, so be it.

 

[77BD]

So answer me this--- IF the police know this guy, have spoken with him many/several times while he is lawfully OC'ing and have not determined that he is a risk to himself or others and is not violating any laws/regulation with his carry and demeanor, just WHY are they continuing to subject this individual to the harassment and interruptions of his peaceful and lawful activities---- seems to do so would subject them to complaints and accusations of interfering with the exercise of some Constitutionally protected rights to me. Also, would seem to earn them the title of being OEO's.

That's a good question that I don't know the answer to. Based on the buildings in the background, this video appears to be shot a couple blocks west of downtown. Le Mars has a Police Department, Singer works for the County Sheriff's Office. I'd speculate that most calls about this individual are made to the Police Department and not the Sheriff's Office. The Sheriff's Office may have received the call. If it was a 911 call, I don't know how they decide to dispatch officers or deputies.

If I was visiting my parents in town and needed a LEO, I'd call the Police Department.

 

[JoeSparky]

Snipped...

My beef is how this whole video and reaction even came about. The OP open carries, the police know this and they get calls about a man with a gun repeatedly when he open carries. When the police stop to talk to him, he videos them. Fine he can do that, but why? Is he trying to get a rise out of the officer? Is he trying to get an officer to slip up? Why video every encounter? What's he worried about if he is within the law? What's the point?

Why open carry an AR-15? ...snipped

Let me retry my question this way...

So answer me this--- IF the police know this guy, have spoken with him many/several times while he is lawfully OC'ing and have not determined that he is a risk to himself or others and is not violating any laws/regulation with his carry and demeanor, just WHY are they continuing to subject this individual to the harassment and interruptions of his peaceful and lawful activities---- seems to do so would subject them to complaints and accusations of interfering with the exercise of some Constitutionally protected rights to me. Also, would seem to earn them the title of being OEO's.

why should the person not breaking the law while exercising his Contitutionally protected rights have to repeattedly justify his actions to the OEO during their "security theater" streetside public interrogations?


If the officers have no report of illegal activity then they have no way to have any Reasonable Articulable Suspicion that a crime has happened, is happening, or about to happen and without this minimum level of suspicion they have no lawful justification for demanding anything of him. Especially, if the harassment and interference of his exercise of his Constitutionally protected rights continue beyond the first, second, or even third time they respond to a call of lawful activity by ANY individual.

 

[77BD]

It is absolutely drawing attention to an issue.

What's the saying 'all publicity is good publicity, there's no such thing as bad publicity' - I don't believe that's always the case.

Why not bait them? They do it to us. They wait for us to break the law, then punish us. I think that maybe less than half the videos out there are actual videos of people looking for a payday. The rest fall into the categories of education and protection.

I can't comprehend why baiting LEOs is a good idea. I try to stay off the radar of LEOs as much as possible. There are bad apples everywhere, you may bait the wrong one. You might end up crippled or dead, but hey, you got some video! I'll pass on baiting LEOs.

Do you live in Iowa? What do you need a carry and purchase permit for? A little bit of research would show you that your carry permit IS your purchase permit.

I read the law, my local Sheriff's Office said it was required. It wasn't the Sheriff, just an office person. I wasn't going to challenge it, just get my permit(s) and get out without raising a stink about a couple extra bucks. Stay off the radar.

 

[77BD]

Let me retry my question this way...



why should the person not breaking the law while exercising his Contitutionally protected rights have to repeattedly justify his actions to the OEO during their "security theater" streetside public interrogations?


If the officers have no report of illegal activity then they have no way to have any Reasonable Articulable Suspicion that a crime has happened, is happening, or about to happen and without this minimum level of suspicion they have no lawful justification for demanding anything of him. Especially, if the harassment and interference of his exercise of his Constitutionally protected rights continue beyond the first, second, or even third time they respond to a call of lawful activity by ANY individual.

Joe - I don't know. I'll try to find out this weekend when I'm back in town.

I don't know what people say when making a complaint call. I'm guessing a LEO needs to follow-up on a complaint call and need to verify the guy isn't causing problems, brandishing or whatever. If he's playing the 'Baiting Game' well, he appears to be playing to win, whatever prize that may be. 'Theater', interesting choice of words, still evaluating who's really trying to be the star, OP or LEO.