Is this brandishing?

[TraumaRN]

Noticed the picture from recent protest and was wondering if this posture by the man in camo jacket could be construed as brandishing under Virginia Law:

http://www.styleweekly.com/richmond/opposing-rallies-converge-on-capitol-square/Content?oid=2643694

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

Does it meet the standards of the Virginia code?

2006 Code of Virginia § 18.2-282 - Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

B. Any police officer in the performance of his duty, in making an arrest under the provisions of this section, shall not be civilly liable in damages for injuries or death resulting to the person being arrested if he had reason to believe that the person being arrested was pointing, holding, or brandishing such firearm or air or gas operated weapon, or object that was similar in appearance, with intent to induce fear in the mind of another.

C. For purposes of this section, the word "firearm" means any weapon that will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel single or multiple projectiles by the action of an explosion of a combustible material.The word "ammunition," as used herein, shall mean a cartridge, pellet,ball, missile or projectile adapted for use in a firearm.

(Code 1950, 18.1-69.2; 1968, c. 513; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1990, cc. 588, 599;1992, c. 735; 2003, c. 976; 2005, c. 928.)

 

[TraumaRN]

Thanks for the State Code of which I am aware. I would say he is lucky to have not been cited given his hand positions. Just looking for an opinion from those on this board that have knowledge of those who received citations for doing less. I have never open carried a long gun, but is this an appropriate way to do that?

 

[blahpony]

It doesn't look like the woman with the sign is very afraid. Therefore, he's not causing fear.

 

[solus]

thanks Fallschirmjager for providing the specific criteria for VA's definition of brandishing as the photo does seem, in the strictest sense of the cited VA statute, to be brandishing.

as for the camo wearing gentleman's hand placement, it is tough to see if their finger is resting inside the unloaded firearm's trigger guard.

personally, glad the nice LEs excercised good olde common sense ~ towards all rally participants & apparently let them holler nasties to each other the whole rally!

that stated, i must agree w/blahpony the confronted female does not seem to show behavioural evidence in her manner of any type of induced fear affect in body language nor facial expressions, nor do other individuals around the group.

therefore, apparently no brandishing occurred at the rally!

ipse

 

[BB62]

Does it meet the standards of the Virginia code?

2006 Code of Virginia § 18.2-282 - Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance. ...

Wasn't "brandishing" the BS charge that a Virginian was charged with, and the matter to the VA Supreme Court, where he lost?

I certainly hope removal of this whole section of code is on VCDL's radar.

 

[color of law]

Does it meet the standards of the Virginia code?

2006 Code of Virginia § 18.2-282 - Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

Here, I fixed it.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any religious cross, crucifix or any object similar in appearance in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a cross or crucifix in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear of damnation in the mind of another of being condemned to eternal punishment. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense.

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

Noticed the picture from recent protest and was wondering if this posture by the man in camo jacket could be construed as brandishing under Virginia Law:

Out of curiosity, why do you think the guy in camo might be brandishing and the guy in the maroon shirt isn't?

Both appear to have their firearms slung on single-point slings but MrCamo's magazine well is empty while MrMaroon has a magazine in his. Both of their hands are only moments away from having a full grip.

Personally, I've always looked at a slung long arm as the equivalent of a holstered handgun. I wouldn't say merely openly carrying a long arm (slung or not) as 'brandishing' without more to the situation.

 

[solus]

Wasn't "brandishing" the BS charge that a Virginian was charged with, and the matter to the VA Supreme Court, where he lost?

I certainly hope removal of this whole section of code is on VCDL's radar.

several past and current members have been charged...

ipse

 

[color of law]

Any crime that is based on a victim's belief should be removed from criminal law.

 

[TraumaRN]

Out of curiosity, why do you think the guy in camo might be brandishing and the guy in the maroon shirt isn't?

Both appear to have their firearms slung on single-point slings but MrCamo's magazine well is empty while MrMaroon has a magazine in his. Both of their hands are only moments away from having a full grip.

Personally, I've always looked at a slung long arm as the equivalent of a holstered handgun. I wouldn't say merely openly carrying a long arm (slung or not) as 'brandishing' without more to the situation.

I noticed that as well, but the gentleman in camo was a more overt example. I think I recall a member on here mentioning that to be on solid ground, keep your hands off entirely, no resting hands on the firearm. Wouldn't take anything for one of the protestors to suddenly "feel" threatened.

 

[The Truth]

Just my opinion, but...

Short answer: Yes, he is brandishing.


The 2 men's grips are so completely different it's easy to claim one is brandishing and the other is not. One is clearly holding the gun traditionally the same way he would if he were going to aim and pull the trigger and the other guy is, well, not.

Really, it's up to the woman's and any witnesses' discretion as to whether or not it's brandishing. This picture seems incriminating to me.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Is it brandishing, IMO no, they are not pointing their guns at anyone. Now the big question, does this thread violate OCDO rules on long guns?

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

Short answer: Yes, he is brandishing.

Let me see if I have this right....

Two men, both of whom are carrying slung weapons but one is 'brandishing' based upon the position of his hands, notwithstanding that changing one's grip takes mere fractions of a second and there is nothing in the Code referencing hand position, correct?

And MrCamo is the more 'dangerous' of the two in spite of the fact that MrMaroon has a magazine inserted and is a mere flick of the safety away from 'making the streets run red with blood' whereas MrCamo would have to insert a magazine into the magazine well and pull the charging handle in order to fire, also correct?

Could you give us a rough idea of how many fractions of a second separate 'non-brandishing' from 'brandishing' in this instance? Do I need a stopwatch or would a watch with a sweep second hand be sufficient?


Why would not openly carrying a holstered pistol be considered 'brandishing' since it would also be mere fractions of a second away from being discharged?

 

[WalkingWolf]

As you can see this is the way trained professionals carry their long guns in public.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission - Patrol Rifle Instructor Course

SUL Position The SUL position has the muzzle of the weapon pointed more directly between the officer’s feet and the rifle is held more flat against the chest and is easily maintained one-handed when used in conjunction with a tactical sling. The SUL position allows the officer to maintain greater muzzle discipline and improves weapon retention when in close proximity to others (officers or civilians). Strong hand retains firing grip, support hand retains grip on fore-end although slightly rotated. Safety is “ON”. Trigger finger is indexed.

https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/im...structor_2014/Section 10 Carry Conditions.pdf

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

On the other hand, this famous (or infamous?) photograph would definitely be 'brandishing' under most state laws....

 

[crgonzalez08]

I'll say no. The persons in front of them don't look afraid at all. I will say, He doesn't look any relax tho

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

 

[TraumaRN]

... does this thread violate OCDO rules on long guns?

Apparently it does violate the long gun rule. I hadn't been on that rule page for a long time. My apologies to the admin and board for having posted.

 

[Va_Nemo]

Short answer on the original question-- Yes. Depending on the political viewpoints of the judge hearing the case. Or not. He may grant a Motion to Strike and dismiss the case. Or he could convict.

From that picture you cannot tell which judge you would get or what his views are.

Nemo