imported post
Jim675 wrote:
I was an Iowan from birth to 23. Since then I have lived all over the country. My experience tells me that Iowans are certainly not genetically disposed to stupidity. I now openly carry in Washington State quite regularly. Washington requires neither training nor a permit to do so. I have yet to cause any mayhem via an ND.
I have seen several people go from anti-gun with no experience to target shooters and carriers, either CC or OC as they wish. All to no apparent harm.
I have yet to see a study that shows states with rigorous testing and training requirements have safer gun handling records than those without. Comments like "should know which end the bullet comes out of" are specious attempts to justify statism.
Lastly, the rights recognized in the BoR are not there based on their safe and judicious use. The need for them supersedes the dangers they pose. We suffer the dangers of automobiles because transportation is so necessary to our way of life. The right to self defense and the manners in which it is tolerated impacts the very fabric of a country. It matters in many ways. More freedom makes better people. Do I need to provide a cite for that?
Wow! You manage to mix two completely unrelated concepts to try and prove your point! Statism? That isn't even remotely used in context here!
"Washington requires neither training nor a permit to do so. I have yet to cause any mayhem via an ND."
Ok, do you have any training, formal or otherwise?
Again, for those of you who can't read, I never said that no training is a guarantee of a Negligent Discharge. Only that it makes the POSSIBILITY of one more likely. I CAN show you numerous incidents of negligent discharge that have caused injury and loss of life. You can also check for yourself by Googling the term.
"Lastly, the rights recognized in the BoR are not there based on their safe and judicious use. The need for them supersedes the dangers they pose. We suffer the dangers of automobiles because transportation is so necessary to our way of life. "
First, driving is not a right but a privileged and we DO require people to be properly trained before we turn them loose on the highway.
Second, are you saying your right to use a gun in self defense supersedes your neighbors right to life if you happen to make a mistake and miss your intended target but hit them? If so, then you have proven my point.
For all of you who disagree, you will be happy to know the following are my final words on this subject.
I know some of you will say that there is no evidence of "mayhem" from accidental shootings caused by open carry individuals. Unfortunately this is one of those things where it is impossible to prove that it WON'T happen. I can show that it has happened. Rarely yes, but it does happen.
You may tell me that your self taught and you've never had an accident. I can simply say "Yet." Will you have one? Probably not but if you have no training or experience at all, the chances of that happening are greater than for someone who has been trained.
You may say that requiring training is unnecessary government intrusion. I didn't say the government had to provide the training. Nor did I say that they had to issue a license to prove that you had that training. Sorry to disappoint all of you conspiracy theorists out there but I have no ties to the Obama administration.
I know that safety education, for cars, swimming pools and yes firearms save countless lives each year. Hunters safety course have been required since at least the 1960's in Iowa. The last information I saw was that since the beginning of this requirement the number of accidental deaths has been cut by 50%. I'd say that's pretty conclusive evidence that it has helped.
We've all seen gun newbies at gun shows and gun shops that have no idea what to do with a firearm. They don't care where they point the muzzle, pull the trigger without clearing the weapon and all sorts of other things that make you want to dive for cover. What percentage of those clueless people buy a gun, load it and never get any training? Probably pretty low but I know it does happen. How many of THOSE people cause an accident? Again, probably a very low number but it doesn't take much research to prove that it does happen. (Again, Google is your friend. Do it yourself for God's sake!)
Personally, I have no time for the "criminal/bad/whatever" element of society that decides to do someone else harm. They deserve to be treated with the same contempt they show you.
I am concerned with the innocents that get caught in the cross-fire. I'm sure usually this is the result of some low-life pulling the trigger. I also know that it has happened because someone without proper firearms training thought it was ok to point his gun at someone and pull the trigger. It happened to a friends son. He pointed a .22 at his best friend and pulled the trigger. One 12 year old was killed and one scarred for life. Ten years later he pulled the trigger on himself because of the shame. He left behind a 4 year old son who now has to wonder why Daddy killed himself.
Whose fault is that? There's plenty to go around and I'm not going to try to second guess anyone involved. Counting parents, siblings, spouses and children, 9 lives were touched by a mistake with a gun. Could better training have stopped this? Maybe, but to bad we'll never know for sure.
Like I said before training DOES save lives. You can argue that all you want but decades of evidence proves you wrong and me right. I really don't care if you agree with that or not.
I am worried about the innocent person who may be killed by someone who doesn't know how to use a gun correctly. I know that training WILL reduce the number of innocents killed. If you think that making sure someone who wants to use a gun should be able to demonstrate that they understand the dangers of doing so and the proper way of handling one are too much of an imposition, then I really don't want to know you anyway.
Adios,
TG
