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In your state: can you carry in a PUBLIC Zoo?

DeSchaine

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2013
Messages
537
Location
Kalamazoo, MI
So, considering that a Zoo has gates, maybe an entrance building, then open spaces and more buildings, what are the laws regarding libraries and "local units of government" - and how do they affect one's ability to OC and/or CC at a public zoo?

Thank you.

State of Michigan code 123.1102, sec. 2 says that no local unit of government can have any firearm or ammunition restrictions beyond what the state and feds have in place. In CADL vs. MOC, the lower courts basically ruled that because libraries are unrestricted (i.e. not an armory, jail or court) facilities and funded through taxpayer monies, they constitute a Local Unit and are therefore held to the pre-emption. CADL appealed, MSC refused to hear it, so the ruling stands. You can carry OC or CC, up to you. Libraries are not covered in MCL 750.234d.

That particular section does list seven places that you can't carry without a license: financial institutions, houses of religious worship, courts, theaters, sports arenas, day care center, hospitals and bars. Public zoos don't fall under any of that, regardless of construction.
 

decklin

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
758
Location
Pacific, WA
Thank you.

So, am I to understand that one can OC and/or CC in government owned buildings in NH?

The only exception is a court house but you can check your weapon at the door.
I. No person shall knowingly carry a loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver, or firearm or any other deadly weapon as defined in RSA 625:11, V, whether open or concealed or whether licensed or unlicensed, upon the person or within any of the person's possessions owned or within the person's control in a courtroom or area used by a court. Whoever violates the provisions of this paragraph shall be guilty of a class B felony.
II. Firearms may be secured at the entrance to a courthouse by courthouse security personnel. III. For purposes of paragraph I, "area used by a court" means:
(a) In a building dedicated exclusively to court use, the entire building exclusive of the area between the entrance and the courthouse security.
(b) In any other building which includes a court facility, courtrooms, jury assembly rooms, deliberation rooms, conference and interview rooms, the judge's chambers, other court staff facilities, holding facilities, and corridors, stairways, waiting areas, and elevators directly connecting these rooms and facilities.
IV. The provisions of this section shall not apply to marshals, sheriffs, deputy sheriffs, police or other duly appointed or elected law enforcement officers, bailiffs and court security officers, or persons with prior authorization of the court for the purpose of introducing weapons into evidence and as otherwise provided for in RSA 159:5.
V. It shall be an affirmative defense to any prosecution under paragraph I that there was no notice of the provisions of paragraph I posted in a conspicuous place at each public entrance to the court building. Source. 1985, 258:2. 2000, 175:1, eff. Jan. 1, 2001.
 

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
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Valhalla
U looking for this information to be able to argue: "Look, all these zoos allow guns and there have been no incidents." ?
That is exactly and precisely how VCDL got guns in state parks attached to the National Fair Credit Reporting Act.

In part, the argument will show a similarity of state laws vs public property. As others obey the law, so must they.
 

bc.cruiser

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Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
786
Location
Fayetteville NC
That is exactly and precisely how VCDL got guns in state parks attached to the National Fair Credit Reporting Act.

In part, the argument will show a similarity of state laws vs public property. As others obey the law, so must they.

Was this a VA thing (with the VCDL) or do you mean the Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure Act of 2009? That is the only 'national' act I know of, and it does not cover state parks.
 

color of law

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Grapeshot

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Was this a VA thing (with the VCDL) or do you mean the Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure Act of 2009? That is the only 'national' act I know of, and it does not cover state parks.

Nice catch. Sorry about my poorly worded reference - I should have said parks within a state controlled by NPS.


"As of February 22, 2010, a new federal law allows people who can legally possess firearms under applicable federal, state, and local laws, to legally possess firearms in this park."

"The Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure Act of 2009, was enacted May 22, 2009 and will become effective February 22, 2010. Section 512 of this law; Protecting Americans from Violent Crimes, supersedes the uniform treatment of firearm possession in the national park system outside Alaska under the regulations found at 36 C.F.R. 2.4."

http://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/management/lawsandpolicies.htm
 
Last edited:

glock22oc

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
29
Location
Oklahoma
Oklahoma City Zoo website has a list of items listed under "What not to bring".
It says "Firearms are prohibited on Zoo grounds".

I have been to the OKC Zoo several times and have yet to notice a sign at the gate.
The only place I have noticed a sign was on the Zoo office and gift shop, just inside the gate.
Pulled a shirt over it and carried on..


The Tulsa Zoo website also has the same phrase "Firearms are prohibited on Zoo grounds", listed in the rules section.
However, I haven't been there in 10+ years and couldn't share any info as to signs.
 

Grapeshot

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Valhalla
It is a publicly owned zoo?
They seem to think so :)

"The Oklahoma City Zoo is at 2101 NE 50. The Zoo is funded by a dedicated 1/8 cent sales tax approved by voters in 1990 and by admissions fees and citizen donations.

"The Oklahoma City Zoological Trust is the governing authority of the Oklahoma City Zoological Park."
https://www.okc.gov/zoo/



The Tulsa Zoo is owned by the City of Tulsa and managed by Tulsa Zoo Management, Inc. TZMI is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, which is governed by a volunteer Board of Directors.

Rules: Firearms are prohibited on zoo grounds.
http://tulsazoo.org/visit-us/faq/

http://tulsazoo.org/visit-us/about-us/tulsa-zoo-management-inc/
 
Last edited:

BB62

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Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Oklahoma City Zoo website has a list of items listed under "What not to bring".
It says "Firearms are prohibited on Zoo grounds".

I have been to the OKC Zoo several times and have yet to notice a sign at the gate.
The only place I have noticed a sign was on the Zoo office and gift shop, just inside the gate.
Pulled a shirt over it and carried on..


The Tulsa Zoo website also has the same phrase "Firearms are prohibited on Zoo grounds", listed in the rules section.
However, I haven't been there in 10+ years and couldn't share any info as to signs.
I wonder what justification the Zoo uses?

Does the Zoo "conduct business with the public"?

§21-1277 (A)(1): Any structure, building, or office space which is owned or leased by a city, town, county, state, or federal governmental authority for the purpose of conducting business with the public;

from: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/oklahoma.pdf
 

SFCRetired

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Montgomery, Alabama, USA
Only one I'm familiar with is Montgomery Zoo, a city-owned facility which has this on their website: "Firearm and weapons policy: No firearms and/or weapons of any sort are allowed on City of Montgomery Zoo property. Signs are posted at each entrance."

IANAL, but believe this violates the state of Alabama's preemption statute.




 

Grapeshot

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Only one I'm familiar with is Montgomery Zoo, a city-owned facility which has this on their website: "Firearm and weapons policy: No firearms and/or weapons of any sort are allowed on City of Montgomery Zoo property. Signs are posted at each entrance."

IANAL, but believe this violates the state of Alabama's preemption statute.
Agree that the zoo's rule has no basis in fact and is illegal.

"Strengthens Alabama’s firearms preemption statute by reserving for the state legislature complete control over regulation and policy relating to firearms, ammunition and firearm accessories in order to ensure that such regulation is applied uniformly throughout the state."
https://www.nraila.org/articles/201...r-signs-omnibus-firearms-reform-bill-into-law
 

DeSchaine

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2013
Messages
537
Location
Kalamazoo, MI

This raises an interesting issue in the whole thing. Is a zoo REALLY an educational facility, or does it qualify as an entertainment facility? In Michigan, even if a public zoo fell under one of those two headings, it would be pre-empted from banning Open Carry, but under statute 28.425o is perfectly within state law to ban Concealed Carry.

Now, the definitions for Michigan:

28.425o(f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

750.237a Individual engaging in proscribed conduct in weapon free school zone; violation; penalties; definitions.
Sec. 237a.(6)

(b) "School" means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12.

(c) "School property" means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.


Many times in MI law they make the note that people who possess licenses or permits for CC are exempt from the bans. As long as you OC in the areas, you are legal.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
This raises an interesting issue in the whole thing. Is a zoo REALLY an educational facility, or does it qualify as an entertainment facility? In Michigan, even if a public zoo fell under one of those two headings, it would be pre-empted from banning Open Carry, but under statute 28.425o is perfectly within state law to ban Concealed Carry.

Now, the definitions for Michigan:

28.425o(f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

750.237a Individual engaging in proscribed conduct in weapon free school zone; violation; penalties; definitions.
Sec. 237a.(6)

(b) "School" means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12.

(c) "School property" means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.


Many times in MI law they make the note that people who possess licenses or permits for CC are exempt from the bans. As long as you OC in the areas, you are legal.
Seating capacity. How many chairs, benches, and the like do they have at the zoo that you're speaking of?


Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
 

wizzi01

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2012
Messages
127
Location
Detroit
This raises an interesting issue in the whole thing. Is a zoo REALLY an educational facility, or does it qualify as an entertainment facility? In Michigan, even if a public zoo fell under one of those two headings, it would be pre-empted from banning Open Carry, but under statute 28.425o is perfectly within state law to ban Concealed Carry.

Now, the definitions for Michigan:

28.425o(f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

750.237a Individual engaging in proscribed conduct in weapon free school zone; violation; penalties; definitions.
Sec. 237a.(6)

(b) "School" means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12.

(c) "School property" means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.


Many times in MI law they make the note that people who possess licenses or permits for CC are exempt from the bans. As long as you OC in the areas, you are legal.


http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/2000s/op10195.htm
 

bc.cruiser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
786
Location
Fayetteville NC
Without going there to see if it is posted against CC, the NC Zoo is a no-go for OC. Admission is not free, so OC is not permitted.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-269.3.html

§ 14-269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(5) A person carrying a handgun if the person has a valid concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, has a concealed handgun permit considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, or is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14-415.25. This subdivision shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14-415.11(c).
 
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