Houston Livestock Show Bans Carry

[Lord Sega]

LINK

So Texas, what does the law say about this (old law, new 1 Jan law, and State Preemption)?

“It’s our goal to promote a family-friendly atmosphere,” said Cowley. “We don’t think the private carry of handguns is conducive to that.”

Though RodeoHouston is held on Harris County property, they retain exclusive use and control rights of the complex during the duration of the annual event.

Public property, but private (tickets to enter) event... does preepmtion apply?

 

[nonameisgood]

City owned, cannot post except they may be able to sell tickets as a "limited use permit to attend activities" where carry is prohibited. But that hasn't been tested in the courts. Which gets us to the zoo issue in Dallas...

Why do people thing that licensed carriers aren't family friendly? Aren't we the law-abiding, follow-the-rules kind of folks?


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[Grapeshot]

In most states when a private operator contracts to rent the entire facility, they (the venue) gain the rights and priviledges the same as if they owned it for the duration. It becomes their castle, they make the rules.

Does it work like that in Texas? I don't know, but hopefully I have pointed someone in the right direction to find out.

 

[HPmatt]

Just like a sporting event (rodeo is) - no guns allowed in NRG Stadium.


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[jordanmills]

In most states when a private operator contracts to rent the entire facility, they (the venue) gain the rights and priviledges the same as if they owned it for the duration. It becomes their castle, they make the rules.

Does it work like that in Texas? I don't know, but hopefully I have pointed someone in the right direction to find out.

It does not. The law is pretty clear. http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/docs/PE/htm/PE.30.htm#30.06

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

 

[OC for ME]

It appears that the Show" is a private entity, not a governmental entity as is cited in the law.

http://www.rodeohouston.com/home.aspx

http://nrgpark.com/nrg-stadium

 

[nonameisgood]

It appears that the Show" is a private entity, not a governmental entity as is cited in the law.

http://www.rodeohouston.com/home.aspx

http://nrgpark.com/nrg-stadium

It is on public property, however Matt points out that a professional sporting event is already a prohibited place. I certainly wish they would say that instead of the malarkey about being family friendly. If you're so family friendly, why serve so much booze?


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[Grapeshot]

It appears that the Show" is a private entity, not a governmental entity as is cited in the law.

http://www.rodeohouston.com/home.aspx

http://nrgpark.com/nrg-stadium

Which is exactly the point I made and why I raised the question.

These things are a combination of real estate law and gun laws.

 

[SpeedDaemon]

This sounds like pretty much the same situation as the State Fair. Fair Park is owned by the city, but private company runs the fair, and didn't like the idea of CC. We won that battle.

From their FAQ:

…a gun? No, with one exception.
A person holding a valid Texas Concealed Handgun License (or valid CHL from a reciprocating state) is permitted to enter onto State Fair property with his/her concealed handgun; provided, however, that CHL holders will not be permitted to carry their concealed handgun inside the Cotton Bowl Stadium, a facility defined under Texas Penal Code §46.035 as “the premises where a high school, collegiate or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place.” Note that the State Fair of Texas does not provide lockers for the storage or checking of weapons for CHL holders, so if you plan to attend a game or event in the Cotton Bowl, please secure your weapon at home or in your vehicle prior to entering the fairgrounds. We want the fair to be a fun and safe experience.

…open carry? Yes.
State Fair of Texas’ policy will be similar to our policy for Concealed Handgun License Holders. The State Fair of Texas leases property owned by the City of Dallas and does not fall into any of the exception categories (amusement park, etc.) that would allow us to prohibit the carrying of handguns, so we will be allowing “open carry” according to the Texas statutes. However, we will still prohibit handguns in the Cotton Bowl Stadium under the collegiate athletic event exception.

(I'm not going to OC there - don't think it's prudent given how close-pressed the crowds can be - but I CC every time, and the guys with the metal detector wands at the gate only have about a 50% record of finding my G23...)

 

[HPmatt]

The Texans (McNair) and Houston Livestock Show jointly own and financed the stadium, as well as issued special purpose tax authority (Houston Sports Authority?) debt (backstopped by Harris county taxpayers...). Old Judge Hoffheinz pioneered that structure back in the 60s to build the Astrodome, and then the Convention Hall, and Astroworld...

http://www.houstonsports.org

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[nonameisgood]

The property is owned by Harris County according to the Harris Central Appraisal District website.


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[jordanmills]

It is on public property, however Matt points out that a professional sporting event is already a prohibited place. I certainly wish they would say that instead of the malarkey about being family friendly. If you're so family friendly, why serve so much booze?


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Only the rodeo is a professional sporting event, and it is only in the big stadium for a certain period of time. The fair, livestock show, and concert are not professional sporting events.

 

[nonameisgood]

This spurred me to look: Dallas AAC is owned by the City of Dallas. They should not be able to prohibit licensed carry for other than sporting and university events. Guess we need to press that issue.


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[campfire]

This sounds like pretty much the same situation as the State Fair. Fair Park is owned by the city, but private company runs the fair, and didn't like the idea of CC. We won that battle.

From their FAQ:


(I'm not going to OC there - don't think it's prudent given how close-pressed the crowds can be - but I CC every time, and the guys with the metal detector wands at the gate only have about a 50% record of finding my G23...)

Because it's plastic? (Kidding)


Why are they wanding if firearms are allowed? Do they ask to see your permit if they find it?


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[OC for ME]

Because it's plastic? (Kidding)

Why are they wanding if firearms are allowed? Do they ask to see your permit if they find it?

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Give the propensity for Glocks to "just go off" on their owners I'd be inclined to wand for a Glock who is having a bad day.

 

[sixer-sxt]

The property is owned by Harris County according to the Harris Central Appraisal District website.

It also says so on the NRG website.

The Harris County Sports & Convention Corporation (HCSCC), is a component of Harris County, Texas, which was created by the Commissioners Court of Harris County, Texas for the purposes of aiding and acting on behalf of Harris County in managing, operating, maintaining and developing the sports and entertainment complex located on County-owned property, known as NRG Park.

Can you post a link to the HCAD site showing the NRG property? I could not find it for all I tried.

Only the rodeo is a professional sporting event, and it is only in the big stadium for a certain period of time. The fair, livestock show, and concert are not professional sporting events.

I heard someone else claim that the livestock show is part of a interscholastic event which, if true, would violate PC 46.035(b)(2) as well. While they may be competing for scholarships, etc. is that true?

 

[Grapeshot]

--snipped--

I heard someone else claim that the livestock show is part of a interscholastic event which, if true, would violate PC 46.035(b)(2) as well. While they may be competing for scholarships, etc. is that true?

Think that would be a real stretch and likely a false claim. What is more probable is that the prize for certain participants is a scholarship award.

That condition is extremely unlikely to cause the event to be considered a school function anymore than having students in the audience would be.

The litmus test would be is the event operated by/hosted by a school or group of schools.

 

[jordanmills]

I heard someone else claim that the livestock show is part of a interscholastic event which, if true, would violate PC 46.035(b)(2) as well. While they may be competing for scholarships, etc. is that true?

That's like the zoo saying they're a school.