Henderson City Policy

[thebigsd]

The following is the email I sent to ACA Bob Zentz and his reply.

TBG





Mr. Zentz

I have noticed that the signs on City Hall have yet to be changed. It has now been 3 months since you informed me that they would be corrected.
Do you have any word on when this will be done? The signs at city parks were corrected immediately. Thank you for your cooperation I appreciate it.

Regards




Thank you for letting me know. I guess I have not been paying any attention to the signs, I will follow-up with the maintenance supervisor.

Robert Zentz
Assistant City Attorney

To me his response kinda of sounds like a blow-off. He didn't really answer your question. Three months is a long time to change some signs. I would give him three days and then email him everyday until it is resolved. Perhaps suggest some legal action?

 

[The Big Guy]

To me his response kinda of sounds like a blow-off. He didn't really answer your question. Three months is a long time to change some signs. I would give him three days and then email him everyday until it is resolved. Perhaps suggest some legal action?

This was a long struggle to get the City of Henderson to change policy. They didn't want to do it but in the long run they did the right thing. I think at least one other OC here has been in and out of City Hall with no problems. I have been in there several times. I've been in the city library many times and carry in our local parks with no problems what so ever. Indeed true to their word, the policy was changed. The signs in the parks and other city buildings have been changed, just not City Hall. I think I will give them the benefit of the doubt on this one. ACA Zentz as I understand does not work out of City Hall so In his infrequent visits he may not have noticed. The city has had some of the same financial troubles that all cities are going through now and a problem with the City Attorney, which you can read about on this thread. I agree there are times to bore in, but I don't think this is one of them. Not yet at least. I do appreciate your input though.

TBG

 

[armaborealis]

City Attorney Quillin -- recently arrested on DUI charges -- just resigned. I wonder if her replacement is any better on the issue? It seems that Ms. Quillin dragged her feet and let her personal prejudices get in the way of providing legal advice to the city for some time.

 

[The Big Guy]

City Attorney Quillin -- recently arrested on DUI charges -- just resigned. I wonder if her replacement is any better on the issue? It seems that Ms. Quillin dragged her feet and let her personal prejudices get in the way of providing legal advice to the city for some time.

There is an interim CA but as far as I know no replacement has been named. I don't think they will change policy now.

TBG

 

[greengum]

This was a long struggle to get the City of Henderson to change policy. They didn't want to do it but in the long run they did the right thing. I think at least one other OC here has been in and out of City Hall with no problems. I have been in there several times. I've been in the city library many times and carry in our local parks with no problems what so ever. Indeed true to their word, the policy was changed. The signs in the parks and other city buildings have been changed, just not City Hall. I think I will give them the benefit of the doubt on this one. ACA Zentz as I understand does not work out of City Hall so In his infrequent visits he may not have noticed. The city has had some of the same financial troubles that all cities are going through now and a problem with the City Attorney, which you can read about on this thread. I agree there are times to bore in, but I don't think this is one of them. Not yet at least. I do appreciate your input though.

TBG

Yes I have been there about 5 times in the past 2 months or so and have OC'ed each time. I was noticed at least one time by the security guard guy there but nothing was said. I wonder how Henderson police department would react if next time I make the 10 foot walk to their building!

 

[The Big Guy]

Yes I have been there about 5 times in the past 2 months or so and have OC'ed each time. I was noticed at least one time by the security guard guy there but nothing was said. I wonder how Henderson police department would react if next time I make the 10 foot walk to their building!

I have not had reason to visit the police station but have wondered that too. I have been in contact with chief Chambers so I know she is aware of the change in policy. I'm guessing that you would have no trouble entering the lobby area. If you go there let us know the results.

I was at City Hall on Thursday, still no change in the sign. I think my next move will be to try to get in contact with the Maintenance Manager and see what he says.

TBG

 

[timf343]

Yes I have been there about 5 times in the past 2 months or so and have OC'ed each time. I was noticed at least one time by the security guard guy there but nothing was said. I wonder how Henderson police department would react if next time I make the 10 foot walk to their building!

When I first visited Metro's internal affairs department to talk to detectives, I open carried. The next time I went down, a huge sign had been posted on the door prohibiting guns. I was only dropping something off, so I open carried any way and left 2 minutes later.

But when I confronted detectives with the fact that their sign violated state law and demanded they remove it, they declined, and the sign still remains today. Perhaps this is proof (if you didn't have enough evidence already) that internal affairs is corrupt.

My point is, I don't know how police will react, but some believe the law does not apply to them, so I would exercise caution. Have some legitimate business with the department. Perhaps you purchase a used firearm and are going to register it? OC your regular daily carry weapon, and then bring in the new-to-you gun unloaded and in a case. Good way to test the water.

 

[greengum]

When I first visited Metro's internal affairs department to talk to detectives, I open carried. The next time I went down, a huge sign had been posted on the door prohibiting guns. I was only dropping something off, so I open carried any way and left 2 minutes later.

But when I confronted detectives with the fact that their sign violated state law and demanded they remove it, they declined, and the sign still remains today. Perhaps this is proof (if you didn't have enough evidence already) that internal affairs is corrupt.

My point is, I don't know how police will react, but some believe the law does not apply to them, so I would exercise caution. Have some legitimate business with the department. Perhaps you purchase a used firearm and are going to register it? OC your regular daily carry weapon, and then bring in the new-to-you gun unloaded and in a case. Good way to test the water.

When I do do it I will be sure to videotape it.

 

[The Big Guy]

I checked out the new City Hall annex yesterday and there is no sign posted at all with regard to firearms.

I noticed some of the signs in city parks have had the tape pulled off where it covers "NO FIREARMS OR WEAPONS OF ANY KIND ALLOWED". I'm guessing it's kids looking to see what is underneath the tape.

TBG

 

[The Big Guy]

New news

In searching park reservations for the proposed Henderson get together and picnic on Nov 5th (be there), I discovered that the Henderson City ordinance has never officially been changed for park carry. The signs stating such were covered a long time ago however.

Henderson Municipal Code HMC 8.99.030(M) states: Weapons. No firearms, archery, paint ball weapons, air guns, BB guns, or like devices shall be allowed in a park or park facility, unless part of a city-sponsored program or allowed through a park reservation pursuant to HMC 8.99.030(C).

I will be contacting my City Council member and copied to the City Attorney’s office and Mayor, asking that the City Council take action on this issue.

Also I will be doing a follow up on the signs at City Hall to insure they indeed have been changed. If they have not I will do a follow up on that as well.

TBG

 

[The Big Guy]

Good news. The signs at Henderson City Hall have been changed, and nice signs they are.

NO CONCEALED FIREARMS EXCEPT BY AUTHORIZED LAW ENFORCEMENT PER NRS 202. 3673.

TBG

 

[The Big Guy]

I'm beginning to formulate a letter on the subject of getting HMC 8.99.030(M) officially changed. I don't want to approach it by just telling them to get it changed, but rather I want to point it out to them and offer a reasonable rewording. One that provides for our rights but reasonably provides for protection of the park users and make our officials hopefully more at ease.

The current law now states: Weapons. No firearms, archery, paint ball weapons, air guns, BB guns, or like devices shall be allowed in a park or park facility, unless part of a city-sponsored program or allowed through a park reservation pursuant to HMC 8.99.030(C).


I would like it changed to something such as:

Firearms may be carried in parks and park facilities under state pre-emption NRS 268.418, by adults who under law may legally possess them. All firearms must be carried in strict compliance of all applicable state law. At no time except in the defense of life may firearms be discharged within parks or park facilities per HMC 8.98.061 (C/2) and NRS 268.418. Firearms must remain secure. Brandishing is prohibited under NRS 202.290 and 202.320. No paintball weapons, air guns, spring loaded devices, archery equipment or like devices may be used in a park or park facility, unless part of a city-sponsored program or allowed through a park reservation pursuant to HMS 8.99.030 (C). No person under the influence of alcohol or any other intoxicating substance may possess firearms In parks or park facilities per NRS 202.257. Firearms may not be carried in parks or park facilities by anyone under legal age per NRS.202.300.

This is a rough draft of my proposed change. Any suggestions?

TBG

 

[The Big Guy]

Unless anyone has a bette suggestion, the following is what I will be sending to A.C.A Robert Zentz.


A.C.A Bob Zentz,

As I was looking through the Parks Department website, looking for information on reserving park space, I noticed that the Municipal Code HMC 8.99.030(M) with regard to firearms in the parks has not been changed. Although the signs that were in violation were immediately covered when the City Attorney’s office issued its opinion on the matter, it appears the actual code has not been changed. Even though it is unenforceable as now written, I believe to keep from having misunderstandings in the future and to comply with state law which orders laws in violation of state pre-emption be changed, it needs to be corrected.

As currently written it states:

Weapons. No firearms, archery, paint ball weapons, air guns, BB guns, or like devices shall be allowed in a park or park facility, unless part of a city-sponsored program or allowed through a park reservation pursuant to HMC 8.99.030(C).

May I suggest the following wording be substituted?

Firearms may be carried in parks and park facilities under state pre-emption NRS 268.418, by adults who under law may legally possess them. All firearms must be carried in strict compliance of all applicable state law. At no time except in the defense of life may firearms be discharged within parks or park facilities per HMC 8.98.061 (C/2) and NRS 268.418. Firearms must remain secure. Brandishing is prohibited under NRS 202.290 and 202.320. No paintball weapons, air guns, spring loaded devices, archery equipment or like devices may be used in a park or park facility, unless part of a city-sponsored program or allowed through a park reservation pursuant to HMS 8.99.030 (C). No person under the influence of alcohol or any other intoxicating substance may possess firearms in parks or park facilities per NRS 202.257. Firearms may not be carried in parks or park facilities by anyone under legal age per NRS.202.300.

Perhaps you will have better wording or believe something else needs to be added or substituted. I appreciate your attention to this matter.

Regards

The Big Guy's real name.

 

[Vegassteve]

I like it. It's always good to offer a solution instead of just complain.

 

[wrightme]

Weapons. No firearms, archery, paint ball weapons, air guns, BB guns, or like devices shall be allowed in a park or park facility, unless part of a city-sponsored program or allowed through a park reservation pursuant to HMC 8.99.030(C).

***************************************************************************

Weapons. Only weapons carried or transported iaw NRS are permitted in a park or park facility.



K.I.S.S.

 

[The Big Guy]

Weapons. No firearms, archery, paint ball weapons, air guns, BB guns, or like devices shall be allowed in a park or park facility, unless part of a city-sponsored program or allowed through a park reservation pursuant to HMC 8.99.030(C).

***************************************************************************

Weapons. Only weapons carried or transported iaw NRS are permitted in a park or park facility.



K.I.S.S.

Your point is well taken, and normally I would agree and go your way on this. I think however in this situation we need a bit of a "Feeeeeeeeel good solution". Extra words will comfort them while maintaining our position. It shows the Mayor and Council when they consider this that there is already plenty of law covering this issue.There is nothing in what I wrote that does not already exist so nothing is changing. I also believe that this is written for the lazy cop that doesn't know the laws he is trying to enforce. If there is a problem, he can look up park weapons law and be told everything he needs to know and the incident can end right there. That's my hope anyway.


TBG

 

[DON`T TREAD ON ME]

I am on board with the simple plan, I see lots of room for inturperitation (sp) with all the words and statutes,

For example The proposal reads: Firearms may not be carried in parks or park facilities by anyone under legal age per NRS.202.300.

While the NRS states: NRS 202.300 Use or possession of firearm by child under age of 18 years; unlawful to aid or permit child to commit violation; penalties; child 14 years of age or older authorized to possess firearm under certain circumstances.

1. Except as otherwise provided in this section, a child under the age of 18 years shall not handle or have in his or her possession or under his or her control, except while accompanied by or under the immediate charge of his or her parent or guardian or an adult person authorized by his or her parent or guardian to have control or custody of the child, any firearm of any kind for hunting or target practice or for other purposes. A child who violates this subsection commits a delinquent act and the court may order the detention of the child in the same manner as if the child had committed an act that would have been a felony if committed by an adult.

It is my experience that if we allow them to put a spin on the law in the books, the same thing will happen on the streets

 

[The Big Guy]

I am on board with the simple plan, I see lots of room for inturperitation (sp) with all the words and statutes,

For example The proposal reads: Firearms may not be carried in parks or park facilities by anyone under legal age per NRS.202.300.

While the NRS states: NRS 202.300 Use or possession of firearm by child under age of 18 years; unlawful to aid or permit child to commit violation; penalties; child 14 years of age or older authorized to possess firearm under certain circumstances.

1. Except as otherwise provided in this section, a child under the age of 18 years shall not handle or have in his or her possession or under his or her control, except while accompanied by or under the immediate charge of his or her parent or guardian or an adult person authorized by his or her parent or guardian to have control or custody of the child, any firearm of any kind for hunting or target practice or for other purposes. A child who violates this subsection commits a delinquent act and the court may order the detention of the child in the same manner as if the child had committed an act that would have been a felony if committed by an adult.

It is my experience that if we allow them to put a spin on the law in the books, the same thing will happen on the streets

If the "keep it simple" method is best, how about this.

Weapons. No firearms as defined by NRS 268.418 section 1, shall be discharged in a park or park facility, unless part of a city-sponsored program or allowed through a park reservation pursuant to HMC 8.99.030(C).

This just twists the current wording and I think covers the bases. As paintball, air/bb guns are covered under the state definition of firearm they apply under 268.418 as well. Archery, while I believe is covered under the second amendment and the Nevada Constituion as an "arm" is not mentioned in the pre-emption statutes.

thoughts?

TBG

 

[jdholmes]

I think TBG hit the nail on the head and did a fine job. I think the easiest way to win these people over is to add words, not take them away. Well done.

 

[The Big Guy]

Reply from ACA Zentz

The following is the response I recieved moments ago on the changing of the Henderson Park ordinance.



Mr. xxx,

I was not aware that the ordinance had not been amended. The attorney representing the Parks and Recreation Department has the matter and has begun drafting the necessary changes. I cannot tell you how long this process will take. Thank you for keeping me aware of these matters.

Robert Zentz
Assistant City Attorney