Hampton Roads - OC reports

[Grapeshot]

I've been here for three weeks now, had no issues yesterday went to Lowe's, Best Buy and Sport clips.

No funny looks or anything.

PS I hate moving

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Never minded the moving itself. It was the finding everything that was the real PITA.

 

[ron73440]

Never minded the moving itself. It was the finding everything that was the real PITA.

That's the stage we're at now, everything is in boxes and apparently we didn't label them as well as we thought.

Getting there though, slowly getting used to not being on active duty anymore and the new job is going well.

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[Freki]

Greetings one and all, pardon me if this is misplaced here, but it seemed to me to be the right place to find the answers I seek!

I am new-ish to the whole OC thing, originated in NY (need I say more?), but have been here for several years. Now that I have something actually worth carrying, I am curious to know if there are any areas in the NN/Hampton area that are no-go zones. I've poked around a fair bit through the seemingly endless google results, but found no definitive answers, and plenty of answers from 10+ years ago. I've browsed a bit through this thread and it seems there are plenty of places where it is a non-issue, which I am happy to see, but 321 pages is a bit much to go through.

 

[2a4all]

Greetings one and all, pardon me if this is misplaced here, but it seemed to me to be the right place to find the answers I seek!

I am new-ish to the whole OC thing, originated in NY (need I say more?), but have been here for several years. Now that I have something actually worth carrying, I am curious to know if there are any areas in the NN/Hampton area that are no-go zones. I've poked around a fair bit through the seemingly endless google results, but found no definitive answers, and plenty of answers from 10+ years ago. I've browsed a bit through this thread and it seems there are plenty of places where it is a non-issue, which I am happy to see, but 321 pages is a bit much to go through.

Welcome, Freki.

VCDL has the information you seek here: http://www.vcdl.org/CarryInfo

Many of us on this forum are VCDL members. As you have discovered, there are no similarities between carrying here and carrying in NY.

While you're on the VCDL website, sign up for the VA Alerts. Very useful information concerning current 2A events. And we always welcome new members. The dues are just $25.00/year, which helps defray our costs to publicize our cause.

Stop by our table at the next gun show you attend and say hello.

 

[papa bear]

Hey FREKI, welcome to a freer world. You may have been institutionalize by your being in a prison state. BTW, you can have whatever size drink you want.

Like 2a4all said , VCDL is the best gun group around. Come join us

We will have booths at Roanoke and Christiansburg next month

 

[wrearick]

Welcome, No problem areas in NN/Hampton except for obvious ones, which the VCDL site will highlight. Carry is not authorized on Military bases (Langley AFB), but Fort Monroe has been turned over to private interests and is no longer a "military" base. The Mariner's Museum in NN is a known Anti-establishment. Those places that are anti are private businesses and allowed to stipulate conditions on people coming on the premises. Some post signs some don't. Either way, signs do NOT have the force of law in Va. They can "ask" you to leave and if you refuse can call the police wrt trespass. Some places are habitual no guns places, Buffalo Wild wings (posted), TGI Friday's (not posted), most Malls (Patrick Henry) restrict firearms/weapons on their "code of conduct" but signage is spotty. You may or may not be approached and asked to leave but again it is not a criminal act to carry there.

 

[Freki]

Welcome, Freki.

VCDL has the information you seek here: http://www.vcdl.org/CarryInfo

Many of us on this forum are VCDL members. As you have discovered, there are no similarities between carrying here and carrying in NY.

While you're on the VCDL website, sign up for the VA Alerts. Very useful information concerning current 2A events. And we always welcome new members. The dues are just $25.00/year, which helps defray our costs to publicize our cause.

Stop by our table at the next gun show you attend and say hello.

I've been by the site a few times, but was more thinking private businesses who have issues with people practicing their rights in the area.

And no similarities at all between VA and NY. Here you can actually purchase a gun without jumping through hoops, standing on your head, and forking over a small fortune.

Hey FREKI, welcome to a freer world. You may have been institutionalize by your being in a prison state. BTW, you can have whatever size drink you want.

Like 2a4all said , VCDL is the best gun group around. Come join us

We will have booths at Roanoke and Christiansburg next month

The only thing not as free in VA is the liquor stores, crap selection in most here. NY does have privatized liquor stores rather than state run. But oh well. I escaped in 2008, and never considered going back. I can have any size drink, and purchase such drink with a gun on my hip. This would send many I knew in the great white north fleeing for cover. I did know quite a few who owned, and a couple who carried, handguns but the hoops they had to jump through were nuts. I circumvented this by using the law to my advantage, essentially, you can own a handgun that is "antique" and which ammunition is not widely available (cap and ball). I kept two black powder reproductions on hand when I was up there. Used to even take them to a couple ranges in the Adirondacks.

Those are both a bit far, but who knows, depending on work, I may make the trip out.

Welcome, No problem areas in NN/Hampton except for obvious ones, which the VCDL site will highlight. Carry is not authorized on Military bases (Langley AFB), but Fort Monroe has been turned over to private interests and is no longer a "military" base. The Mariner's Museum in NN is a known Anti-establishment. Those places that are anti are private businesses and allowed to stipulate conditions on people coming on the premises. Some post signs some don't. Either way, signs do NOT have the force of law in Va. They can "ask" you to leave and if you refuse can call the police wrt trespass. Some places are habitual no guns places, Buffalo Wild wings (posted), TGI Friday's (not posted), most Malls (Patrick Henry) restrict firearms/weapons on their "code of conduct" but signage is spotty. You may or may not be approached and asked to leave but again it is not a criminal act to carry there.

I don't have much (or any) reason to be on any of the bases here, though I am surprised at the Mariner's Museum. Most of the other places, are places I do not frequent, especially PHM. But it's good to know.

 

[Grapeshot]

To Freki and other newbies re No Guns signs on private property.

Such signs do not have the force of law (no penalty) in Virginia. Sign or no sign, you must be told to remove the gun from the property or leave first. Then if you do not comply, you may be charged with trespass.

Actually, the same applies to our governor's executive order regarding state agencies i.e. ABC stores. Any such GFZ signs are an empty threat. A verbal demand/directive must be made - noncompliance will then put one at risk.

 

[color of law]

To Freki and other newbies re No Guns signs on private property.

Such signs do not have the force of law (no penalty) in Virginia. Sign or no sign, you must be told to remove the gun from the property or leave first. Then if you do not comply, you may be charged with trespass.

Actually, the same applies to our governor's executive order regarding state agencies i.e. ABC stores. Any such GFZ signs are an empty threat. A verbal demand/directive must be made - noncompliance will then put one at risk.

And the request/order to leave must be in front of a police officer. He said she said does not work.

 

[Grapeshot]

And the request/order to leave must be in front of a police officer. He said she said does no work.

I don't want to tell that to the judge. Too many video cams with sound out there.

I won't hold court on the street either.

 

[color of law]

I don't want to tell that to the judge. Too many video cams with sound out there.

I won't hold court on the street either.

The video is hearsay. You have to be asked to leave in front of the officer. I speak from experience.

 

[Grapeshot]

I don't want to tell that to the judge. Too many video cams with sound out there.

I won't hold court on the street either.

The video is hearsay. You have to be asked to leave in front of the officer. I speak from experience.

I presume you have a cite from the Virginia statutes or a court of record that would substantiate your statement.

I know of numerous cases in Virginia where video was a consideration and played a factor in the final outcome. One being the lengthy trial of our friend Skidmark in the thread titled "A FerryTale."
Skid collected large and the security company and sheriff were criticized by the court for not saving the videos so that they could be viewed.

There are many others - the following is just one:
Virginia Beach, Virginia
"The Virginia Beach CCTV video surveillance program began in 1993, when 5 remote cameras were installed along the beachfront residential and business areas of the city. The concept of video surveillance was heavily supported by citizen advisory groups as well as local business associations. In 1994, an additional 5 cameras were added to the system. The system cost $240,000, including operation and maintenance, and is paid for through drug asset forfeiture funds and city contingency funds."

"The Beach area covers 42 blocks of which cameras currently cover 27 blocks. The cameras are mounted on existing signal devices and street light poles and are enclosed in weather-proof housing. The cameras can rotate 360 degrees and are equipped with motorized pan and tilt devices and zoom lenses."

"The Second Police Precinct controls the cameras and monitors the images, from 8 a.m. to 3 a.m. during the summer months and until 11 p.m. in the winter. The system has provided video evidence for criminal prosecution, has been used to monitor narcotics investigations, track and apprehend suspects, and monitor vehicular and pedestrian foot traffic. "According to a police spokesperson, they have made hundreds of observations that have led to arrests."[SUP]61[/SUP] However there is very little hard statistical data to support the effectiveness of the CCTV system."
http://www.library.ca.gov/crb/97/05/

 

[wrearick]

And the request/order to leave must be in front of a police officer. He said she said does not work.

Please provide the cite (in the Virginia Code) where that stipulation is made.

 

[color of law]

Trespasses in Virginia are classified as misdemeanors. see Virginia Code § 18.2-119 and §§ 18.2-132 through 18.2-136.

Now look at § 19.2-81. Arrest without warrant authorized in certain cases.

Officers may arrest without a warrant any person who commits any crime in the presence of the officer and any person whom he has reasonable grounds or probable cause to suspect of having committed a felony not in the officer's presence.

 

[Liberty-or-Death]

The forbidding may be written or oral, but need be specific toward the individual. Therefore signs are general and are not specific notice. It's also interesting to note that there appears to be no date of expiration on a forbidding.

Color: your requirement from experience does not jive with the code of Virginia. I believe § 19.2-81 section G comes to play here.

 

[Grapeshot]

The forbidding may be written or oral, but need be specific toward the individual. Therefore signs are general and are not specific notice. It's also interesting to note that there appears to be no date of expiration on a forbidding.

Color: your requirement from experience does not jive with the code of Virginia. I believe § 19.2-81 section G comes to play here.

That section of the Code of Va. is about Domestic Abuse. Where is the connection to No Guns signs and what type of notice must be given before one may be charged with trespass?
http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title19.2/chapter7/section19.2-81.3/

 

[Liberty-or-Death]

It's about arrest without warrant.

G. Such officers may also arrest without a warrant for an alleged misdemeanor not committed in their presence involving (i) shoplifting in violation of § 18.2-96 or 18.2-103 or a similar local ordinance, (ii) carrying a weapon on school property in violation of § 18.2-308.1, (iii) assault and battery, (iv) brandishing a firearm in violation of § 18.2-282, or (v) destruction of property in violation of § 18.2-137, when such property is located on premises used for business or commercial purposes, or a similar local ordinance, when any such arrest is based on probable cause upon reasonable complaint of the person who observed the alleged offense. The arresting officer may issue a summons to any person arrested under this section for a misdemeanor violation involving shoplifting.

 

[Grapeshot]

It's about arrest without warrant.

G. Such officers may also arrest without a warrant for an alleged misdemeanor not committed in their presence involving (i) shoplifting in violation of § 18.2-96 or 18.2-103 or a similar local ordinance, (ii) carrying a weapon on school property in violation of § 18.2-308.1, (iii) assault and battery, (iv) brandishing a firearm in violation of § 18.2-282, or (v) destruction of property in violation of § 18.2-137, when such property is located on premises used for business or commercial purposes, or a similar local ordinance, when any such arrest is based on probable cause upon reasonable complaint of the person who observed the alleged offense. The arresting officer may issue a summons to any person arrested under this section for a misdemeanor violation involving shoplifting.

My bad - I was on the wrong Code section.

Still, I do not see the connection to No Guns signs. The conditions are spelled out quite clearly and signs or trespass are not mentioned.

There can be no "local ordinance" regarding the carry of handguns - see 15.2-915.

 

[color of law]

The forbidding may be written or oral, but need be specific toward the individual. Therefore signs are general and are not specific notice. It's also interesting to note that there appears to be no date of expiration on a forbidding.

Color: your requirement from experience does not jive with the code of Virginia. I believe § 19.2-81 section G comes to play here.

What about it???? Grapeshot pointed out the exceptions. But, we were talking about trespass. Generally, Ohio law is no different than Virginia law as it relates to trespass.

P/S When it comes to law I would suggest you read more of my posts before you throw down the gauntlet.

 

[wrearick]

I don't know about anyone else, but I find the code confusing and hard to be sure which sections apply when. I for one, therefore, try and find/locate the actual reference in the code. Not only that but Virginia had several changes to it's code go into effect on 1 July 2016. What may have been true in the past could have changed over time, especially if one no longer lives in Virginia.

I for one, did not intend my request to be a challenge or throw down of the gauntlet and there are not many on this site that I take their statements as unquestionable facts. Most try and give honest insight/understanding to the law but I like to be able to look at the code (I find interesting tidbits in the paragraphs before and after the actual cite.)

I am still not clear on the source of the statement:
"And the request/order to leave must be in front of a police officer. He said she said does not work." - It has been shown that Trespass is not a felony so arrest without warrant is not supported by § 19.2-81
"Now look at § 19.2-81. Arrest without warrant authorized in certain cases.

Officers may arrest without a warrant any person who commits any crime in the presence of the officer and any person whom he has reasonable grounds or probable cause to suspect of having committed a felony not in the officer's presence."

nor is trespass among the misdemeanors specified in Section G which allows arrest without witness (shoplifting, GFZ, brandishing, destruction of (business) property). I guess it would be up to a judge if trespass on a business location was a "similar local ordinance".

So my understanding at this point is I probably can't be arrested for trespassing based on the word of just the shop owner. Now how I see this play out in real life is:
1. Officer arrives
2. Questions shop owner and you - If you admit that you were asked to leave and didn't that would probably suffice to put the matter before a judge.
3. Barring the above stupidity, you will then be asked to leave again, this time in the presence of the officer. Failure to do so will be sufficient for putting the matter before a judge.
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On the statement of:
"The video is hearsay. You have to be asked to leave in front of the officer. I speak from experience."
I am of the opinion (FWIW) that Grapeshot has provided some compelling info that, regardless of previous experience, video is admissible in Virginia courts. Since that statement was the only one in which you claimed experience, I read Liberty or Death's post to point out that statement as no longer being correct in Va and was not necessarily related to the sentece preceeding his comment to you that dealt with requirements/definition of trespass vice video recordings. However, I am uncertain since he points to "§ 19.2-81 section G comes to play here." unless he is saying that a video record constitutes an "observance by the officer" or "when any such arrest is based on probable cause upon reasonable complaint of the person who observed the alleged offense." I am not sure I would buy either of those but it may be that case law, as Grapeshot has referenced, has accepted video recordings as the equivalent of the officer observing the event first hand.

For now I will honor the request of a shop owner to leave and I will avoid this whole tangled web.