Nuttycomputer
Regular Member
imported post
utbagpiper wrote:
First off I'm glad to see the officers are receiving training and that charges have been dropped.
Charles I disagree and your paragraphs seem to contradict each other. Indeed what seems to change is what you say is extreme versus my view of extreme.
For example you say we won loaded permitless car carry by carrying loaded with a permit and showing that it was safe to do so. Before the law was passed to allow permitless carry in a vehicle - Carrying with a permit WAS the extreme conduct and in a way carrying loaded at all still is to some people. So you advocate being moderate in our approach in one paragraph and then saying we won this crucial permitless option by (what I would consider extreme) methods.
I suggest we push the extremes in that our conduct should be what is minimally required by law and nothing else. You suggest this will lose us those rights. Personally if it does I'm okay with that. That means the public has taken a look at the issue and voted against an activity. However if we lose those rights pre-emptively by not actually even using themthen we haven't let anyone vote to take them away. We've done it ourself.
utbagpiper wrote:
.........
We got there not by "pushing the limits" in our conduct, but by demonstrating that loaded guns in cars--with permits--were not a problem. Then we were able to remove the requirement for the permits.
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We have certainly shifted the definition of what is extreme conduct by shifting the definition of what is perfectly reasonable and acceptable conduct. But we didn't do it by engaging too often in what was then viewed as extreme conduct. We did it by making sure our conduct did not cause us to lose the support of voters.
I beg of you to consider how your actions affect our ability to advance needed legislation.
We push the limits legislatively most effectively by keeping our conduct well within the lines as it were.
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We must win and maintain the hearts and minds of a lot of our fellow citizens who do not carry guns. We do not do that by being extreme in our conduct. We do that by being very moderate in our conduct and pushing the limits in changes to the laws. This is a crucial difference.
Charles
First off I'm glad to see the officers are receiving training and that charges have been dropped.
Charles I disagree and your paragraphs seem to contradict each other. Indeed what seems to change is what you say is extreme versus my view of extreme.
For example you say we won loaded permitless car carry by carrying loaded with a permit and showing that it was safe to do so. Before the law was passed to allow permitless carry in a vehicle - Carrying with a permit WAS the extreme conduct and in a way carrying loaded at all still is to some people. So you advocate being moderate in our approach in one paragraph and then saying we won this crucial permitless option by (what I would consider extreme) methods.
I suggest we push the extremes in that our conduct should be what is minimally required by law and nothing else. You suggest this will lose us those rights. Personally if it does I'm okay with that. That means the public has taken a look at the issue and voted against an activity. However if we lose those rights pre-emptively by not actually even using themthen we haven't let anyone vote to take them away. We've done it ourself.