Fredericksburg PD circumvents gun buy-back law via loophole

[TFred]

Update on the layout of the PD Department and surrounding areas.

The PD has a long driveway leading to the visitor parking lot, in front of the building. The inbound lane, on the north side, is a Fire Lane, and painted yellow along the whole way, and appropriately signed as no parking. The outbound lane has 12 parking spaces, with signs restricting parking to police employees or visitors. I don't know if they might try to make the case that a private citizen looking to buy a firearm is not on official police business, so may not be considered a visitor.

As I assumed, ALL the surrounding apartment units are posted no parking except for residents, etc. I will say again, I strongly suspect that if you violate their parking sign, you will be towed. Predatory towing is alive and quite healthy in Fredericksburg.

Most of the businesses in the commercial center to the north are medical, so there will be minimal usage of those lots. I didn't see parking signs there, but I also did not drive through the lots. The restaurant I mentioned earlier is also in that same area.

TFred

 

[davidmcbeth]

Update on the layout of the PD Department and surrounding areas.

The PD has a long driveway leading to the visitor parking lot, in front of the building. The inbound lane, on the north side, is a Fire Lane, and painted yellow along the whole way, and appropriately signed as no parking. The outbound lane has 12 parking spaces, with signs restricting parking to police employees or visitors. I don't know if they might try to make the case that a private citizen looking to buy a firearm is not on official police business, so may not be considered a visitor.

As I assumed, ALL the surrounding apartment units are posted no parking except for residents, etc. I will say again, I strongly suspect that if you violate their parking sign, you will be towed. Predatory towing is alive and quite healthy in Fredericksburg.

Most of the businesses in the commercial center to the north are medical, so there will be minimal usage of those lots. I didn't see parking signs there, but I also did not drive through the lots. The restaurant I mentioned earlier is also in that same area.

TFred

lol google map google map

 

[TFred]

lol google map google map

Here's the Google map of the area. The PD is the white rectangular roofed building on the south side of Cowan. You can see the school to the southeast and the apartments all around.

Yes, just like the one I already posted.



TFred

 

[skidmark]

It would behoove any entrepreneurs to have the owner's permission to set up shop. Also, there might be some sort of requirement for a business permit.

Literally on the street. No permission needed and no business license neededfor casual purchases. And it's a parking ticket for being on the street and a citation for not having a business licence. Worry level is very low.

Cops are going to have to go after turners-in who decide to divert for real cash in their pocket that turn out not to have CHPs. Odds of that happening? Approaching zero rapidly. Especially since the 1000-foot rule is federal and they have no authority to enforce fedral law.

They might go after turners-in for brandishing if they pull their firearms out of a bag. Not my problem, as I'll be having them place the firearm in a container so I'll never touch it. Even a POS will have its value increased by the provenance of having been rescued from a turn-in.

stay safe.

 

[TFred]

Literally on the street. No permission needed and no business license neededfor casual purchases. And it's a parking ticket for being on the street and a citation for not having a business licence. Worry level is very low.

Cops are going to have to go after turners-in who decide to divert for real cash in their pocket that turn out not to have CHPs. Odds of that happening? Approaching zero rapidly. Especially since the 1000-foot rule is federal and they have no authority to enforce fedral law.

They might go after turners-in for brandishing if they pull their firearms out of a bag. Not my problem, as I'll be having them place the firearm in a container so I'll never touch it. Even a POS will have its value increased by the provenance of having been rescued from a turn-in.

stay safe.

I don't understand the bold part of your post. Could you please restate? I am not aware of any requirement for a CHP (for either party) in order to conduct a private sale transaction.

From what I recall User posting over and over again, the seller just has to basically not have any reason to suspect that the buyer is unauthorized.

TFred

 

[Lyndsy Simon]

I don't understand the bold part of your post. Could you please restate? I am not aware of any requirement for a CHP (for either party) in order to conduct a private sale transaction.

From what I recall User posting over and over again, the seller just has to basically not have any reason to suspect that the buyer is unauthorized.

TFred

The PD is within 1000' of a school, therefore anyone possessing a firearm not covered under the FOPA safe passage statue must be licensed by the state of Virginia to carry a firearm or that person is violating the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act.

It seems *extremely* unlikely to me that they would do that, though. First, as has been pointed out, local LE doesn't have purview over federal crimes. Second... can you imagine what would happen once we all release our video of the guy or gal getting perp walked at a gun buyback for having a gun?

 

[TFred]

Last minute thoughts

Just a few thoughts this evening.

1. Really be careful where you park. As I noted earlier, predatory towing is a healthy industry in Fredericksburg. If you park in a posted area, your car will be towed, and faster than you might think. I know for a fact that the tow companies literally patrol their territories looking for cars they can tow. It'll cost you $125 to get it back. ($100, plus a $25 "weekend surcharge.")

2. I will be surprised if there is a significant turnout, and my strong suspicion about anyone who does show up is that they will not even consider selling their gun, no matter what. It is my estimation that this event is designed to appeal to only one very narrow demographic, someone who has acquired a gun through no act of their own, and it is a gun that they do not want, and that they specifically want to be destroyed. We can speculate a long time on why someone would want to specifically have their gun destroyed, the anti-gun propaganda certainly plays a big part.

3. I would not be surprised if the word has been "spread" through the target community that there will be folks present offering to buy guns. I would also not be surprised if word has "spread" that selling guns to folks there is against the law. Remember, these events are driven by True Believers who have convinced themselves that they are doing a good deed for the safety of the community. This absolves them of all moral consequences for lying to the people they are trying to get the guns from. Their desired "ends" justify any "means", honest or dishonest.

I'm certain we will all be very interested to hear reports of how it goes. I suspect there may also be some media present. Remember to represent the law-abiding gun community well!

TFred

 

[TFred]

The PD is within 1000' of a school, therefore anyone possessing a firearm not covered under the FOPA safe passage statue must be licensed by the state of Virginia to carry a firearm or that person is violating the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act.

It seems *extremely* unlikely to me that they would do that, though. First, as has been pointed out, local LE doesn't have purview over federal crimes. Second... can you imagine what would happen once we all release our video of the guy or gal getting perp walked at a gun buyback for having a gun?

Oh. I see. I don't even think of that, because a Virginia CHP does not actually qualify for the exemption to the GFSZA anyway. Every one in Virginia who carries within 1,000 feet of school property is a Federal Felon, and the CHP doesn't affect that, whatsoever.

TFred

 

[Grapeshot]

Oh. I see. I don't even think of that, because a Virginia CHP does not actually qualify for the exemption to the GFSZA anyway. Every one in Virginia who carries within 1,000 feet of school property is a Federal Felon, and the CHP doesn't affect that, whatsoever.

TFred

Why is that? Because of the use of the word "license" rather than permit?

[h=3]Exceptions[/h] Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 922(q)(2)(B):

[18 U.S.C. § 922(q)(2)(A)] does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
​

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

​

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

​

 

[TFred]

Why is that? Because of the use of the word "license" rather than permit?

[h=3]Exceptions[/h] Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 922(q)(2)(B):

[18 U.S.C. § 922(q)(2)(A)] does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
​

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

​

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

​

Well, this is a huge diversion from the subject of the thread. It's been debated here many times before. Consider the CHP code. A CHP merely exempts the holder from the general prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun. There is no provision in the code that establishes the CHP that grants the holder a license to possess. A license to possess does not exist in the state of Virginia. The GFSZA, as you quote above, is quite specific in its requirement. I fully admit that many disagree with my assessment, but the plain text reading of the law says that there is no way for a Virginia non-LEO citizen to be exempt from the GFSZA. Any other conclusion is wishful thinking - or just assuming that because it would affect so many, it can't possibly be so. Neither are plausible legal reasons.

TFred

 

[Grapeshot]

^ ^ Okay - got it ^ ^

We now return you to the regularly scheduled program.

 

[davidmcbeth]

The PD is within 1000' of a school, therefore anyone possessing a firearm not covered under the FOPA safe passage statue must be licensed by the state of Virginia to carry a firearm or that person is violating the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act.

It seems *extremely* unlikely to me that they would do that, though. First, as has been pointed out, local LE doesn't have purview over federal crimes. Second... can you imagine what would happen once we all release our video of the guy or gal getting perp walked at a gun buyback for having a gun?

then you're goin to place them all under citizen's arrest who go there to turn in their guns?

 

[scooter348]

Here is the ad that was in this morning's Free Lance Star.

 

[peter nap]

Dear God....I'm north of the ni....I feel sick.

 

[TFred]

Dear God....I'm north of the ni....I feel sick.

It's in your head. As long as you stay south of the Rappahannock, you'll be fine.

TFred

 

[va_tazdad]

Dear God....I'm north of the ni....I feel sick.

Bend over and take slow deep breaths. It will pass in 10 or 20 YEARS.

;>)

 

[Repeater]

Dear God....I'm north of the ni....I feel sick.

"...unwanted." Forlorn Firearms are so sad -- can't we finding a loving home for these strays so they don't have to be put down?

Oh wait, these are firearms, not felines ... never mind.

Same principle, though.

 

[HPmatt]

I think it would be fun to have a shill want to give a gun and debate the merits of giving to the PD charity and then evaluate 'other offers' one might receive...


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[marshaul]

So is anybody there today?

 

[peter nap]

Skidmore scores 2 guns