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First Traffic Stop With a Gun on my Hip!

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,552
Location
SW Idaho
We Coloradoans and folks from around the country who visit our board are going to fix that!
We shall see how long it takes for you to get the hint.

LOL!!!

come_at_me_bro_by_omfgitsenvy-d4gtzoz.jpg

P.S.: It's "Coloradans," but hey, since you're an almighty resident and all, I'm sure you knew that... :rolleyes:
 
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bc.cruiser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
785
Location
Fayetteville NC
In spite of my keyboard's accent, I'm not from around here, either. But, M-T, maybe another option to avoiding getting stopped as you were would be to move out here (NC). Courts here have held that cops have no reason to stop a vehicle simply because of a light being out.

I have been stopped for similiar reason in MS in my 18-wheeler. My problem was that it was nighttime and no headlights were on. Once I explained why the neglect (had stopped at a grocery and left the truck running with just marker lights on; when I left, the area and street were so well lit I didn't turn the headlights back on), the officer laughed and sent me on my way. He never asked for any documentation.:cool:

As to informing, you made your choice. It was a choice that should have no bearing how anyone else handles things. Were it me, as a visitor, I would inform in accordance with the NC law under which my CC permit is issued. Here, you would have to inform in accordance with NC law.

Of the issue with out-of-state posters: What goes on in a state affects all of us since the State Legislatures keep an eye on each other to gauge what will be issues and how issues will be received by the people. It also serves to inform others of disparities and oddities of various laws.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,453
Location
White Oak Plantation
(x)(1) ....

(3) This subsection does not apply to - .... (ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile's parent or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from possessing a firearm, except - .... (iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent in the juvenile's possession at all times when a handgun is in the possession of the juvenile; and (iv) in accordance with State and local law; .... (D) the possession of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile taken in defense of the juvenile or other persons against an intruder into the residence of the juvenile or a residence in which the juvenile is an invited guest.
Essentially, a juvenile has the 'right' to possess a handgun if his mom/dad gives them permission and a note. This is where we parents get to do what the state does to us, infringe upon a unalienable right.
 

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,552
Location
SW Idaho
Were it me, as a visitor, I would inform in accordance with the NC law under which my CC permit is issued. Here, you would have to inform in accordance with NC law.

Why would you follow the more-restrictive (and unconstitutional) requirements of your state, when you are in a freer state that does not have such requirements?

:eek:
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
In spite of my keyboard's accent, I'm not from around here, either.

My problem was that it was nighttime and no headlights were on. <Snip> He never asked for any documentation.:cool:

As to informing, you made your choice. It was a choice that should have no bearing how anyone else handles things. Were it me, as a visitor, I would inform in accordance with the NC law under which my CC permit is issued. Here, you would have to inform in accordance with NC law.

Of the issue with out-of-state posters: What goes on in a state affects all of us since the State Legislatures keep an eye on each other to gauge what will be issues and how issues will be received by the people. It also serves to inform others of disparities and oddities of various laws.

Howdy BC!
Welcome to the Colorado board of the OCDO forum. First, let me apologize if I gave an impression that folks from other states ain't welcome here. That ain't the message I intended to convey, so if that came across, I am sincerely sorry about that.

Truth is, we're more than delighted to have folks join our discussions here from whatever state they live in. We are happy to meet folks from across the country that offer their insights, share their opinions and provide advice on topics of concern that are positive and helpful. That's never been an issue. What we do not appreciate are those very few that camp out on our board with nothing to offer apart from demeaning our members, insults, flaming and smug superior attitudes thrown in for good measure. We give respect, and tend to bristle when we are disrespected in return. It isn't necessary for civil discourse to belittle someone with a different opinion. You have not done so, and I appreciate your comportment in posting. Well done there.

As for the matter of informing, I am not entirely certain because I don't recall and will need to double check. I believe it may be possible that we are required to produce our CCW permit along with our driver's license when stopped while armed. In my particular instance, I have both my license and CCW permit in the same plastic sleeve for my own convenience. Really, if you've never seen my wallet, you couldn't possibly imagine how many of those darn plastic cards I have. Credit cards from an automitive repair outfit, credit cards from Penny's and Sears and Best Buy and a whole pile of others, ATM cards, Grocery store cards (at least 2 of them!), a National Park Service card that I just got to get in free because of my age, and a whole bunch of others. Way I figure, I'll only need maybe 2 more to have a whole set. Then I can do Tarot readings with the cotton picking things!

But as for informing, I seem to recall mention of that during the class we took and I'll need to review to figure out whether we are required to produce the CCW during a stop while armed. I seriously do not recall for certain nor can I cite a specific CRS pertaining to it right now.

Going back to what you said about your own experience with being stopped, here's my issue. I ain't accustomed to being stopped at all. EVER. I am a driver for a local corporation and I spend 8 hours (minimum) of each working day behind the wheel as I drive to customer locations to transact business. Ergo, I can document over 8,000 safe driving hours on the job. That means I haven't had a ticket for more than 7 years. I haven't had an accident for which I am responsible for more than 7 years. I haven't even been stopped in more than 7 years. So... when it comes to getting stopped, I was seriously out of practice in how to interact when it came up. Certainly I did not expect to be stopped when this took place, so I was most emphatically off my kilter by seeing those red and blues in the rear view. As I pulled the car over, I was sincerely unaware of what I'd done to merit being pulled over. It was the first thing I asked, and my question went unanswered. Like you, I did not know I had a burnt out headlight because the street lighting was pretty bright where the stop took place.

I ain't making excuses here, nor trying to impress anybody with my driving record. Just setting the stage to illustrate how unprepared I was for this particular encounter. I just don't have much frame of reference because I simply don't get stopped.

And this is getting a bit long so I'll just close by saying again, I hope I did not convey any notion that we aren't welcoming of folks from other states. We are, and add to that, we are a very friendly group of folks here in Colorado. We treat others with respect and civility. It's the sort of values we grew up with. It seems to me you're one of those folks who can understand what I'm trying to say, and I again appreciate your post.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

JamesB

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
703
Location
Lakewood, Colorado, USA
...As for the matter of informing, I am not entirely certain because I don't recall and will need to double check. I believe it may be possible that we are required to produce our CCW permit along with our driver's license when stopped while armed...
M-Taliesin

Nope. No requirement to inform. Nor does it come back with that information when they run you through the system. The only way they know is if you tell them. (or have REALLY obvious bumper stickers like mine.)
 

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,552
Location
SW Idaho
Hello Again!
Please look here:
http://[url]www.coloradoan.com[/URL]/article/20120417/NEWS01/204170329/Lands-bill-fails-House-committee?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

You need to learn the difference between archaic and modern uses/spellings of words.

From one of your state universities:

http://ccs.colostate.edu/style_guide/style_guide_az.aspx#state_names

California Calif. CA Californian
Colorado
Colo. CO Coloradan
Connecticut Conn. CT Connecticuter

http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_5447358
San Francisco comes from Spanish, and thus San Franciscans reside there. Residents of other realms with Spanish names are Mexicans and Puerto Ricans. Since Colorado is a Spanish word for the color red, we are properly Coloradans, not Coloradoans.

As best I know, most Colorado newspapers follow this rule, but there have been exceptions. Most notable, perhaps, is the "Fort Collins Coloradoan." It is owned by the Gannett chain, which until 1989 also owned the daily newspaper in the capital of the Land of Enchantment, the "Santa Fe New Mexican."
Consistency would seem to require either a Fort Collins Coloradan or a Santa Fe New Mexicoan, at least when both newspapers were under the same ownership.

At the Coloradoan, state residents used to be Coloradoans, but now we're Coloradans, according to Jason Melton, a copy editor at the paper. The change came a couple of years ago, and now the only Coloradoan published there is the paper's name.

The Pueblo Chieftain also used Coloradoan until a few years ago, when it switched to Coloradan, according to my friend Hal Walter, a part-time copy editor there.

Nice try, though.
 

JamesB

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
703
Location
Lakewood, Colorado, USA
P.S.: It's "Coloradans," but hey, since you're an almighty resident and all, I'm sure you knew that... :rolleyes:

Actually, the funny part here is that most of us, M-T included, are just laid back enough that you can call us either one of those terms or one of many others and most of us really won't care.
 

VW_Factor

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
1,098
Location
Leesburg, GA
There is no difference. He violated the law. Violating the law is a crime.

No such luck. Traffic infractions are violations. Not crimes.

That is why an officer can get away with "Coercion" in asking someone to admit to the violation. There is a legal difference sir.
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
What the Rule Actually Says!

Howdy Folks!

(6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion,
we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or............



or


DUH!!!


Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 
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Dilligad316

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
41
Location
Colorado
Just took my class in Feb.

Hey M T you have been very informative and I love reading your post as I am just starting in the world of OC.
During our CCW class we were informed that we were not required in CO to notify LEO that we were CCW or that we were carrying but it was strongly suggested that we might just to prevent any issues while in contact with LEO (nobody wants to be looking down the barrel of a LEO just because the backup LEO that walked to the passenger side window saw you Firearm). I have not been pulled over and hope I never do but have full intention of advising LEO if I do (I have noting to hide).
Again M T and many other keep up the great posts I have found them very usefully and informative.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,453
Location
White Oak Plantation
Howdy Folks!

(6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion,
we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or............



or


DUH!!!


Blessings,
M-Taliesin
Careful now, the gratuitous tossing of forum rules at folks whenever you get your feeling hurt could be construed as a gratuitous overuse of the forum rules. Which could be a violation of forum rules, the rules not located in the forum rules.

You decided to tell the copper you had a pistola, the laws do not require that you do so. Your choice, you live with it.

The folks stating or implying that you blew it, gave up your rights without a fight are correct, you did. No big deal, facts are facts, you just don't see it that way, or, you are not willing to accept that you did. Once again, no big deal. You will not be banished from OCDO, or excommunicated from the self-defense via OC movement.

You can be polite and defend your rights, at the same time, believe it or not. It happens all the time, again, believe it or not. You only get in trouble when the copper is a thug with a badge. And, believe it or not, most cops are not thugs, but some are. They don't ask, I don't tell....unless the law states that I must.
 

M-Taliesin

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Apr 22, 2011
Messages
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Location
Aurora, Colorado
Careful now, the gratuitous tossing of forum rules at folks whenever you get your feeling hurt could be construed as a gratuitous overuse of the forum rules. Which could be a violation of forum rules, the rules not located in the forum rules.

Howdy OC!
I don't believe my tossing the rule out there was gratituous at all. When folks start flaming others, it helps to provide a gentle reminder that we still have moderators out there... somewhere... who may provide more stringent sorts of gentle reminders.

While we are a diverse group here, I believe we can still disagree without resorting to name calling and belittling others, as your post shows very well. You and I may not agree about how the story played out, but we both seem to express our points without trying to cut one another down.

You decided to tell the copper you had a pistola, the laws do not require that you do so. Your choice, you live with it.

True enough, and I'm living pretty good. Remember too that at the point I was stopped, I was poorly prepared for an encounter of that sort anyhow. I just don't get stopped. Ergo, am pretty badly 'out of practice'. I hadn't considered the possibility of being stopped because I don't drive in such manner that I should get stopped. Not having much experience with that sort of thing, I did what I thought might be correct under the circumstances. Whether I had to or not being another issue, I wasn't sure where my legal ground was so. If I was wrong, then as you say, I'll live with it. It likely would beat being right... as in dead right.

The folks stating or implying that you blew it, gave up your rights without a fight are correct, you did. No big deal, facts are facts, you just don't see it that way, or, you are not willing to accept that you did. Once again, no big deal. You will not be banished from OCDO, or excommunicated from the self-defense via OC movement.

Again, I ain't had any experience with being stopped since I took up carrying. Dare I say it.... I didn't think it would happen to me! (sic)
So I hadn't studied up much on the legality of being stopped while OC'ing. I knew you could have a handgun either open or concealed carry in your own vehichle, but I was completely uncertain whether I had an obligation to acknowledge that I had a handgun on my person. All of which would have become an issue presently anyhow, because my license and CCW permit are in the same plastic I.D. holder that I handed the officer.

You can be polite and defend your rights, at the same time, believe it or not. It happens all the time, again, believe it or not. You only get in trouble when the copper is a thug with a badge. And, believe it or not, most cops are not thugs, but some are. They don't ask, I don't tell....unless the law states that I must.

And yes, I can see your point, but then again, I wasn't conversant with the law as pertained to a traffic stop. Even if you are completely right in not revealing any information not required by law, there is the chance that thug with a badge is who is standing next to your car. I recall the furor over the cop in Canton Ohio, who threatened to kill a motorist because he didn't reveal he had a handgun on him. I imagine that whole mess will be settled in a court of law. But hypothetically, let's say the thug with a badge actually did shoot that driver. It may still be a matter for the courts, but any decision flowing from that court would be of little consolation to the guy on the mortuary slab. Or his wife. Or his children. Or his family.

Regardless, I handled my situation best I knew how given the knowledge I had at the time.

And most everybody else managed to share their opinion or offer their perspective without flaming anybody.
Which brings us full circle, I'd guess.

Because as scary as a thug cop with a badge and gun might be....
An OC'er with a chip on his shoulder, and picking for a fight with a gun on his hip, is just as scary!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,552
Location
SW Idaho
my license and CCW permit are in the same plastic I.D. holder that I handed the officer.

That's silly.

I recall the furor over the cop in Canton Ohio, who threatened to kill a motorist because he didn't reveal he had a handgun on him.

Wrong. Scumbag Harless flipped out because the LAC did inform, which is a great reason not to inform unless you have a legal obligation to do so.

And especially for you: tumblr_m171zawhpR1r3jsrko1_400.jpg

:D
 
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VW_Factor

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
1,098
Location
Leesburg, GA
That's silly.

Not really. My wife does the same. Flip it over for one or the other

Wrong. Scumbag Harless flipped out because the LAC did inform, which is a great reason not to inform unless you have a legal obligation to do so.

Not exactly what happened. Harless didn't give him a chance until he felt it was too late, then flipped out when the motorist did get a chance to get a word in edgewise.
 

bc.cruiser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
785
Location
Fayetteville NC
Howdy BC!
Welcome to the Colorado board of the OCDO forum. First, let me apologize if I gave an impression that folks from other states ain't welcome here. That ain't the message I intended to convey, so if that came across, I am sincerely sorry about that.
Blessings,
M-Taliesin

Thanks for your comments. My first sentence was directed at someone else who indicated their displeasure with comments from an(other) out-of-state poster.
 

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,552
Location
SW Idaho
Not really. My wife does the same. Flip it over for one or the other

The fact that your wife does something does not reduce its silliness (although you probably shouldn't tell her that). I maintain that it is foolish to tell any armed stranger about your personal property, but especially an armed stranger who has the State's blessing to take your life, liberty, and property.

Not exactly what happened. Harless didn't give him a chance until he felt it was too late, then flipped out when the motorist did get a chance to get a word in edgewise.

The fact remains that Harless flipped when he was informed of the weapon.
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
The El Paso County Sheriff does not share the list of permit carriers to the state database.

Howdy Haman's!
I am going way out on this comment, but I love your handle. I doubt very many would understand the reference without looking it up.
Terrific handle! I love it.

We know how it worked for Haman! LOL! We have one or two folks on this forum who have been building their own model since Mordechai came to town!!! LOL!.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 
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