Experiences @ Key Arena?

[Metalhead47]

So I'm taking the wife to see Trans Siberian Orchestra at Key Arena tomorrow. Now as I understand it, despite being a govt institution they get around preemption with the old "we're leasing it so someone so THEY can actually prohibit firearms" excuse, etc etc. According to their website they DO provide firearm lockers and checking one should be a non issue, but I'm curious what experiences others have had there, especially recently. Never had to check a firearm before. Given the nature of the show I really don't know if they'd do pat downs or not.


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[Bill Starks]

no lock boxes, no checking of firearms....concealed means concealed.

 

[Metalhead47]

no lock boxes, no checking of firearms....concealed means concealed.

The website appears to contradict. It specifically states they have lock boxes for checking firearms...

 

[badkarma]

I have an email from them that refused to acknowledge open carry as legal. They just said that a cop would come and take it. I can't remember the exact wording but I will see if I can find the email.

 

[Bill Starks]

Edit - I missed a section... Seems they do provide lockers. Myself, I'd just CC and be done with it.

Weapons Prohibited
Guests, including law enforcement personnel not present in an official capacity, are prohibited from bringing weapons into the arena. KeyArena does provide weapon lockers. See any KeyArena Admissions staff member to check your weapon. Weapons include, but are not limited to, the following: firearms, explosives, stun guns, handcuffs, brass knuckles, sticks, clubs, batons, martial arts instruments, pepper spray, tear gas, knives, etc. Guests found in possession of the above-mentioned items will be asked to remove the item from the arena or dispose of it. Guests who refuse to comply will be ejected from the arena and may be subject to arrest.



http://www.keyarena.com/arena-information/a-to-z-guide

The following is a list of items that are prohibited at all KeyArena events.

• Fireworks, firearms, or other weapons (including all knives, mace or pepper spray)
  
  
  RCW 9.41.300 states that courthouses will provide lock boxes or someone to take control of the weapon - Not the stadium....

 

[Metalhead47]

Yes, I am planning to cc. Gonna be cold & rainy anyway. Concerned about a search more than anything else.


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[Gilead_Gunslinger]

been there twice in the last couple of years for concerts... they checked bags... no pat downs... dont even think they asked me to open my coat....

 

[boosteddreams]

I know this is too late for you, but I wanted to post in case anyone else was curious. I also went to see TSO at Key Arena today (AWESOME show, BTW) and, just like last year, they checked bags & purses but didn't pat down or wand anyone. As said above, concealed means concealed - this is why I have my little LCP.

 

[Metalhead47]

I know this is too late for you, but I wanted to post in case anyone else was curious. I also went to see TSO at Key Arena today (AWESOME show, BTW) and, just like last year, they checked bags & purses but didn't pat down or wand anyone. As said above, concealed means concealed - this is why I have my little LCP.

Like he said. Non event (well the event its self was awesome, but no search). I had a big heavy motorcycle jacket on with the CZ82. Could have fit a couple in that thing and they never looked at me twice.

Where were you at? We had killer seats down in the last row of the first block of floor seats. Could actually see what the musicians were doing

 

[boosteddreams]

Like he said. Non event (well the event its self was awesome, but no search). I had a big heavy motorcycle jacket on with the CZ. Could have fit a couple in that thing and they never looked at me twice.

*She.

 

[1245A Defender]

Well,,,

I know this is too late for you, but I wanted to post in case anyone else was curious. I also went to see TSO at Key Arena today (AWESOME show, BTW) and, just like last year, they checked bags & purses but didn't pat down or wand anyone. As said above, concealed means concealed - this is why I have my little LCP.

yes,,, concealled means concealled...

I could never tell from your avitar pic,, if that was just folds in your shirt,,, or if that was a back up gun...
Then I met you again at the Vancouver meet... Then I was "like for sure" ,,, that is a back up gun..
I made note that they are both carried, strong hand draw..
I think I prefer that the back up gun be,, off hand draw,,, or, better yet,, ambidexrious,,,
Your strong hand maybe guarding or retaining your main gun from a grab attempt...
AND,,, I prefer that, If you cant,, or wont, do that,,, that your back up gun be a Concealled,,, surprise!!
When I carry a back up,, it is concealled,,, and I can grab it with either hand...
Just some things I think about...

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Key Arena is owned by seattle right?

So State preemption applies

RCW 9.41.290
State preemption.

The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.

RCW 9.41.300
Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.

......... (2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

(a) Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others; and

(b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

(i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; .....................

Guess what, CPL holders and police officers can carry in Key all they want, that ordinance or policy is repealed....

 

[badkarma]

Ok, I had a conversation with Key Arena in March of this year. Their web site contradicts this email but it is fair to say they have no ambition to update the site. I removed the personnel email addresses and names to protect the innocent.

From: Burke, Edie (SC) [mailto:Edie.BurkeSC@seattle.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:09 PM
To: CCCC@XXXX; CCCC@CCCC
Cc: Customer Service Desk, Seattle Center; Zhang, Chris; Blanks, Cynthia; Bryant, Barbara
Subject:

<NAME> and <NAME> –
Recently, both of you have contacted Seattle Center about our Firearms Policy. I want to explain what we do at KeyArena events so there is no confusion. We ASK that ALL persons carrying concealed weapons check in at our entry doors with a staff member. The staff member contacts SPD Sgt. in the facility to speak with you. At that time, we offer a gun safe that you can leave your weapon in while you attend the event. The safe is in our security office, a security officer is always present, and, you have the only key to the safe. You can retrieve your weapon before you leave.
OR, if that is not what you would like to do, we ASK that you provide the SPD Sgt. with your seat location so he is aware of the location of a weapon in the seating area.
Of course, we would prefer that you leave your weapon at home if you could graciously agree to do so. However, if that is not an option, the above procedures and participation on your part is appreciated.
Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.
Thanks, Edie

Edie E. Burke
Facility Manager
KeyArena at Seattle Center
305 Harrison Street
Seattle, WA 98109
(206) 684.7208 (office)
edie.burkesc@seattle.gov

 

[Metalhead47]

*She.

Whoops my bad, apologies

So State preemption applies
Guess what, CPL holders and police officers can carry in Key all they want, that ordinance or policy is repealed....

But, since they are leasing the facility to the event promoter, they can get around that, since the lessee can prohibit whatever they want.... right?

Ok, I had a conversation with Key Arena in March of this year. Their web site contradicts this email but it is fair to say they have no ambition to update the site. I removed the personnel email addresses and names to protect the innocent.

... and then we have this, which certainly seems like a bureaucrat trying very hard to convince you not to carry while actually staying within the confines of .300. Interesting.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

But, since they are leasing the facility to the event promoter, they can get around that, since the lessee can prohibit whatever they want.... right?

But isn't it interesting how ALL of their event promoters have decided to ban guns at their events? and how the regulation is put on the Arena's website. This is what the Arena's OFFICIAL website says

Guests, including law enforcement personnel not present in an official capacity, are prohibited from bringing weapons into the arena. KeyArena does provide weapon lockers. See any KeyArena Admissions staff member to check your weapon. Weapons include, but are not limited to, the following: firearms, explosives, stun guns, handcuffs, brass knuckles, sticks, clubs, batons, martial arts instruments, pepper spray, tear gas, knives, etc. Guests found in possession of the above-mentioned items will be asked to remove the item from the arena or dispose of it. Guests who refuse to comply will be ejected from the arena and may be subject to arrest.

So if that's the case then the city is uniformly banning firearms at the arena, it's not the event promoters if the rule is uniformly applied to all events (i'm sure the event promoters do not disagree with the rule in most cases, but it's not THEIR rule)

And look at the email address in the previously posted email, that's a "seattle.gov" address and the official to whom the address belongs to admitted that they cannot prohibit you from taking your weapon into the seating area.

 

[boosteddreams]

Whoops my bad, apologies

No problem.

But isn't it interesting how ALL of their event promoters have decided to ban guns at their events? and how the regulation is put on the Arena's website.

...


So if that's the case then the city is uniformly banning firearms at the arena, it's not the event promoters if the rule is uniformly applied to all events (i'm sure the event promoters do not disagree with the rule in most cases, but it's not THEIR rule)

And look at the email address in the previously posted email, that's a "seattle.gov" address and the official to whom the address belongs to admitted that they cannot prohibit you from taking your weapon into the seating area.

This is exactly why I just went with a concealed gun.

 

[Metalhead47]

But isn't it interesting how ALL of their event promoters have decided to ban guns at their events? and how the regulation is put on the Arena's website. This is what the Arena's OFFICIAL website says



So if that's the case then the city is uniformly banning firearms at the arena, it's not the event promoters if the rule is uniformly applied to all events (i'm sure the event promoters do not disagree with the rule in most cases, but it's not THEIR rule)

And look at the email address in the previously posted email, that's a "seattle.gov" address and the official to whom the address belongs to admitted that they cannot prohibit you from taking your weapon into the seating area.

They probably require the lessee to prohibit firearms as a condition of getting their lease in the first place. Seattle SOP. My mind is drawing a blank at the moment, but there's another local venue that's rather notorious on here for doing exactly that to skirt around pre-emption, but until someone with much deeper pockets than mine gets hassled it probably won't change.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

No problem.



This is exactly why I just went with a concealed gun.

Oh I completely agree, call me a wimpy 2A supporter, but If I've paid good money for a ticket then I'm not going to risk wasting the money arguing with some low-level city official over preemption and an OC gun.

definitely CC is the way to go, the only point I'm making is that the city rule has no support and cannot be used to charge you with any offense should they catch you...

 

[EMNofSeattle]

They probably require the lessee to prohibit firearms as a condition of getting their lease in the first place. Seattle SOP. My mind is drawing a blank at the moment, but there's another local venue that's rather notorious on here for doing exactly that to skirt around pre-emption, but until someone with much deeper pockets than mine gets hassled it probably won't change.

So then it's a city issued rule/ordinance/regulation that's inconsistent with what's allowed under state law and it's preempted. The city is well within their rights to print a combination of letters on signs and a website that happen to say "firearms prohibited" but they can't enforce that sign, that's why the parks ban went down, they didn't just hang up gunbuster signs, they trespassed people who carried guns.

So if you go and they search you and find your CCW and trespass you, you have a very easy legal claim against the city, if their police sergeant (who hopefully knows better then whichever person is giving you lip at the door) does not know better and gives you some nice city issued shiny bracelets now you have a false arrest you can sue for. Seattle it pretty thick headed, but I think they would drop the issue like a hot potato to avoid being sued now that their last attempt was smacked down like legal whack-a-mole at two levels of court review.

 

[mtlhdtodd]

I was at the TSO show and have been to numerous shows at the Key. I just conceal and have never had a problem.