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Ed Gilespie doesn't deserve your vote.

Thundar

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Here is what Bob Sadtler, Chairman of VCDL PAC is said:
VCDL- Political Action Committee

June 14 ·


***A word from the Chairman***

... Ed Gillespie has failed on many levels to reach out to his base. Corey feels that to blindly hand your support over, just to avoid Ralph Northam is suicidal. If we do THAT, the Republican apparatus of Va will CONTINUE to be arrogant, abusive, and non-responsive. ...
You have four choices:
1. Vote Gillespie because the party says so, or you're terrified of Northam. As said, suicidal, and self-perpetuating.
2. Vote Libertarian. Does that automatically mean four years of being governed by a potted plant? Probably. The alternative is living with #1 for the rest of your life.
3. Write in Corey Stewart. Or Bryce Reeves, ... See #2. ....
4. Demand that Gillespie EARN YOUR VOTE! REFUSE to hand it to him by default. ....Tell the whole rotten stinking mess that you are DONE being ignored. Be willing to risk it all, by letting the Demos hold the office for another four years, ...

.... VCDL-PAC has always been non-partisan. As an Independent, it will always be while I'm in charge.....

Bob Sadtler
Chairman, VCDL-PAC

Link: https://www.facebook.com/VCDL-Political-Action-Committee-221090264897606/


Before you bash me remember 3 things:

1) I gave kudos to VCDL-PAC for endorsing Corey Stewart, a very pro gun and liberty leaning candidate. I had a terrible taste of bile in my mouth when Ed won. Here I am not yet even advocating for the Libertarian. I am just saying Ed is not the man.
2) The words above are those of the VCDL PAC chairman and are posted on the VCDL-PAC Facebook page. I repeat them here to ensure all have a clear view of what others are supporting and advocating for.
3) Remember Eric Cantor? - Gun owners have power when we use it.

Live Free or Die,
Thundar

Just to be clear, in order to make a quicker and more impactful read I shortened it using ... to show where I cut.
 

utbagpiper

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4. Demand that Gillespie EARN YOUR VOTE! REFUSE to hand it to him by default. ....Tell the whole rotten stinking mess that you are DONE being ignored. Be willing to risk it all, by letting the Demos hold the office for another four years, ...

Not my State and so not my immediate business. But if I were to offer a few thoughts....

I think this #4 is the important thing people ought to be doing.

Disengaging and voting 3rd or 10th party today simply means there is no reason for the GOP or its candidate to talk to that voter for the rest of the cycle. A threat is only good until it is carried out at which point it no longer carries any weight. Voting for a 3rd party and then bragging about it on social media isn't very helpful, for example.

What might be helpful is to actively engage. Attend debates. Participate in cottage meetings. Ask the candidate the hard question. "I'm a gun owner. And I see no reason I should vote for you at this time. If a candidate is going to attack or even ignore my RKBA, I'd prefer that candidate be Democrat rather than GOP. But I'm going to cast my vote for a solidly pro-RKBA candidate, even if that means a really bad candidate wins. So, what are you going to say and do as the GOP candidate to earn the vote of Virginia's gun owners?"

Now, if #4 is thrown out as a giveaway that nobody intends to do, but might soothe their conscience, that is a different matter.

I can't say what the right thing to do when the choice is between a really, really bad anti-RKBA candidate and a sorta bad anti-RKBA candidate. I can say that getting actively involved early enough to make sure the GOP offers a reasonable choice, even if he is only a sorta-good RKBA candidate, is a lot better option than choosing between really bad and sorta bad. That ship has sailed in this election cycle it seems. But we do need to learn from our mistakes and do things differently and better next time.

Best of luck.
 

Grapeshot

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--snipped--

I can't say what the right thing to do when the choice is between a really, really bad anti-RKBA candidate and a sorta bad anti-RKBA candidate. I can say that getting actively involved early enough to make sure the GOP offers a reasonable choice, even if he is only a sorta-good RKBA candidate, is a lot better option than choosing between really bad and sorta bad. That ship has sailed in this election cycle it seems. But we do need to learn from our mistakes and do things differently and better next time.

Best of luck.
The process is simple if done early enough. Join the committee which approves and endorses candidates, have others join, take over the committee. That is exactly how David Brat was selected and ultimately defeated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Cantor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Brat
 
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The Wolfhound

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As it stands...

One of the two main party candidates is advocating greater restrictions and reducing the rights reclaimed in the last 20 years. One is advocating expansion of your liberties. We are certain option "A" is bad. We HOPE option "B" is honest. I note that the quoted material was dated more than 6 weeks ago. You will not ride out a Ralph Northam governorship without losing ground. You decide if that risk is worth sending a message no one will ever figure out. Politicians NEVER get the message. They win or they lose but "messages" will never move them.
 

utbagpiper

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The process is simple if done early enough. Join the committee which approves and endorses candidates, have others join, take over the committee. That is exactly how David Brat was selected and ultimately defeated.

Then that is where RKBA activists need to be involved in your State. We have seen tremendous success in Utah by getting involved in our caucus meetings, getting elected delegates to the party conventions, and being a significant share of votes in convention. Having candidates who are good on RKBA on the ballot for the general election is way better than having to choose between the lessor of two evils.

Selection committees, party delegates, or active in the primary elections, depending on the State and the race all carry far more weight, per person, with far less effort, than does trying to effect the outcome of a general election.

The hard part for many is the practical politics of getting along with, working with, even supporting someone who doesn't agree with one's own views, 100% of the time, on 100% of the issues. We often have to decide what our priorities are. If RKBA is our #1 priority, then we will probably have to support candidates who are good on RKBA, even if we don't agree with that candidate's views on immigration, abortion, taxes, etc. It seems to me that too many RKBA activists demand nearly 100% agreement on far too many issues to ever actually support any candidate for office.

It is not my place to tell others what party to join or which candidate to support. My personal experience includes a period of time devoting a fair bit of energy to the Libertarian Party in my State. That time was not entirely fruitless. There are times when having a Libertarian on the general election ballot applies some pressure to the other candidates. But I have found that my involvement with the GOP has yielded far greater results with a lot less effort. It is most fortuitous that my own political views have grown from Libertarian to Conservative over the past 25 years. It is also beneficial that the GOP is the majority party in most areas of my State. Others may choose differently, for a variety of personal reasons. I simply share my experience.
 

scouser

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When you vote you have to make a decision, whether to vote for who you WANT to vote for, or to vote for who someone else tells you to vote for.

My personal feelings are that I do not want any government sticking their nose into my life and I'll never vote for anyone who thinks that the level of their knowledge of what's best for me is greater than my own
 

utbagpiper

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When you vote you have to make a decision, whether to vote for who you WANT to vote for, or to vote for who someone else tells you to vote for.

My personal feelings are that I do not want any government sticking their nose into my life and I'll never vote for anyone who thinks that the level of their knowledge of what's best for me is greater than my own

I think there are many decisions one has to make when he votes. Will I vote for the best candidate even that increases the odds the worst candidate wins? Or will I vote for a non-ideal candidate to keep a truly horrific candidate out of office?

I'm not going to claim to know what the "correct" decision is in any given instance. But I do believe that in many cases we allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good enough. I also know that politics is the art of the possible.
 

Tess

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Then that is where RKBA activists need to be involved in your State. We have seen tremendous success in Utah by getting involved in our caucus meetings, getting elected delegates to the party conventions, and being a significant share of votes in convention. Having candidates who are good on RKBA on the ballot for the general election is way better than having to choose between the lessor of two evils.

Selection committees, party delegates, or active in the primary elections, depending on the State and the race all carry far more weight, per person, with far less effort, than does trying to effect the outcome of a general election.

The hard part for many is the practical politics of getting along with, working with, even supporting someone who doesn't agree with one's own views, 100% of the time, on 100% of the issues. We often have to decide what our priorities are. If RKBA is our #1 priority, then we will probably have to support candidates who are good on RKBA, even if we don't agree with that candidate's views on immigration, abortion, taxes, etc. It seems to me that too many RKBA activists demand nearly 100% agreement on far too many issues to ever actually support any candidate for office.

It is not my place to tell others what party to join or which candidate to support. My personal experience includes a period of time devoting a fair bit of energy to the Libertarian Party in my State. That time was not entirely fruitless. There are times when having a Libertarian on the general election ballot applies some pressure to the other candidates. But I have found that my involvement with the GOP has yielded far greater results with a lot less effort. It is most fortuitous that my own political views have grown from Libertarian to Conservative over the past 25 years. It is also beneficial that the GOP is the majority party in most areas of my State. Others may choose differently, for a variety of personal reasons. I simply share my experience.

I think that's part of the problem. Getting involved with a Party necessitates taking on their identity. I know I am much too liberal to stomach taking on the Republican mantle, and much too conservative to be able to sign on to the Democrat Party. The Libertarian party is much closer, but fighting in a rigged system.

I'm glad some of you can stoop to actually joining a Party. I know I can't.
 

OC for ME

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The committee approach is simple and effective.

Door to door campaigns take many boots on the ground and can be easily disrupted by the antis.
True, but your neighbors can be effective. In local elections (delegates?) I can muster up about 50-100 vote just in my neighborhood of about 200 households. Then the next neighborhood is but across the road. Is it too much time to spend several hours once or twice a month to garner 50-100 votes for a candidate/delegate? Sometimes 20 votes makes a difference, surely 20 votes is not too much to seek.
 

Thundar

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One of the two main party candidates is advocating greater restrictions and reducing the rights reclaimed in the last 20 years. One is advocating expansion of your liberties. We are certain option "A" is bad. We HOPE option "B" is honest. I note that the quoted material was dated more than 6 weeks ago. You will not ride out a Ralph Northam governorship without losing ground. You decide if that risk is worth sending a message no one will ever figure out. Politicians NEVER get the message. They win or they lose but "messages" will never move them.

Wolf,

Bob Sadtler is a decent and honorable man. Do not doubt his words. He proposed 4 choices. Picking #2, #3 or #4 was reasonable, but picking #1, in the words of Bob, is self perpetuating and suicide.
 

utbagpiper

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I think that's part of the problem. Getting involved with a Party necessitates taking on their identity. I know I am much too liberal to stomach taking on the Republican mantle, and much too conservative to be able to sign on to the Democrat Party. The Libertarian party is much closer, but fighting in a rigged system.

I'm glad some of you can stoop to actually joining a Party. I know I can't.

I don't think getting involved necessitates any such thing. Did Ron Paul stop being libertarian? Did Susan Collins stop being liberal? My goodness, what is the identity of the GOP at this point? It is really big tent. In my estimation, the Democrats require a much higher level of doctrinal purity especially on hot button issues like RKBA (anti). But maybe that is my partisan side not seeing the full truth there.

I don't think one "stoops" to join a party. Rather, I think one has to rise up to the level of being willing to work with others who share some general views, but who do not agree with you much of the time. The payoff is being able to actually accomplish some really good things because we are working with others, we have the numbers to effect elections.

And I'm not so sure the system is "rigged" nearly so much as it is natural for great questions to devolve into two camps. Yes, the national debates for presidency are rigged. But my ability to effect national races, even as a party member, is rather minimal. I can have a lot more effect on local and legislative races. Notably, that is where most of the progress on RKBA has come the last 25 years: At the State level.
 

utbagpiper

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Picking #2, #3 or #4 was reasonable, but picking #1, in the words of Bob, is self perpetuating and suicide.

I note that picking #4 and #1 leads to the same personal action: voting for Gilespie. #4 is not an automatic, "don't for Gilespie." It isn't even a "Gilespie doesn't deserve your vote."

I fear there are some who will use #4 as an excuse not to vote for him no matter what he does. He can't change the past. He can't prove that he'll do what he says. Decent and honorable men don't use rhetorical devices as a lie. So since Bob Sadtler is an honorable and decent man, he must intend that there are things Gilespie can do to actually earn gun owners' vote. And those have to be in the realm of practical. Nobody can reasonably expect Gilespie to crawl on his hands and knees, kiss anyone's ring, and promise to push 100% pure constitutional carry on day one as atonement for his past sins in order to "earn gun owners' vote."

So, what will it take for Gilespie to earn your vote, Thundar? Is it in the realm of possible and reasonable? Or is your mind made up and you're voting 3rd party no matter what?
 

Grapeshot

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--snipped--
Be willing to risk it all, by letting the Demos hold the office for another four years, ... not to my liking.

Remember Eric Cantor? - Gun owners have power when we use it..

"Risk it all" and guarantee the anti freedom bunch another big bite at the apple.

Sure do remember how Eric Canter was defeated. I was party to taking over the selection comittee whose endoresment he subsequently lost to David Brat. That action started far ahead of the primary election.

"In June 2014, in his bid for re-election, Cantor lost the Republican primary to economics professor Dave Brat in an upset that surprised political analysts."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Cantor
 

Grapeshot

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--snipped--
Be willing to risk it all, by letting the Demos hold the office for another four years, ... not to my liking.

Remember Eric Cantor? - Gun owners have power when we use it..

"Risk it all" and guarantee the anti freedom bunch another big bite at the apple.

Sure do remember how Eric Canter was defeated. I was party to taking over the selection comittee whose endoresment he subsequently lost to David Brat. That action started far ahead of the primary election.

"In June 2014, in his bid for re-election, Cantor lost the Republican primary to economics professor Dave Brat in an upset that surprised political analysts."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Cantor
 

Thundar

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INSANITY

"Risk it all" and guarantee the anti freedom bunch another big bite at the apple.

Sure do remember how Eric Canter was defeated. I was party to taking over the selection comittee whose endoresment he subsequently lost to David Brat. That action started far ahead of the primary election.

"In June 2014, in his bid for re-election, Cantor lost the Republican primary to economics professor Dave Brat in an upset that surprised political analysts."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Cantor

Yes, of course Grapeshot. Cantor ignored gun owners and gun owners endorsed Dave Brat. Dave Brat won and gun owners won. The point is that gun owners do not have to lie down and take a beating. They have real power. In this election Ed, the proven general election loser, was not responsive to gun owners and gun owners endorsed Corey Stewart. Ed fought a nasty and underhanded campaign and again won the republican primary. Now some advocate gun owners lie down and take the beating, because they fear an even bigger beating if the democrat wins in November. Do not take any beating. Fight back.

The thing is, this is not new. Ed has gained the republican nomination twice before. He is not a very pro gun candidate and has not in all of that time he has campaigned lifted a finger to support or defend our God given rights. Now we have many saying vote for Ed or else it will be very bad. Well, many have already voted for Ed, the proven general election loser, twice. Nothing has changed. What do we call doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? -insanity-

Live Free or Die,
Thundar
 
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The Wolfhound

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Wolf,

Bob Sadtler is a decent and honorable man. Do not doubt his words. He proposed 4 choices. Picking #2, #3 or #4 was reasonable, but picking #1, in the words of Bob, is self perpetuating and suicide.

I know Bob and have no issue with his words. I had issue with the timing of your publication of them. His word in the vicinity of the primary were feeling the sting of the Primary. They become somewhat moot after the primary recedes into the distance. I suspect that Bob would reluctantly vote for Ed given the choice in the current slate. I would not expect Bob to vote for Northam in protest of the poor choice presented by the Republican Party. On gun rights, Corey Stuart was a far better candidate. He is no longer on the ballot, Ed is. Our choices are limited:
Suck it up and vote for Ed hoping for the best.
Vote Northam and accept that we will not advance any gun rights issues for 4 more years
Vote for Cliff Hyra because we cannot stomach either main party candidate and want our voice heard
not vote, for whatever reason or reasons and accept the outcome and continue to carp about it.

Defeating Ralph Northam remains my objective and Ed is the only tool remaining. You are welcome to your own assessment. I save "message sending" for primaries. Outcomes of General Elections are far too dangerous to play with.

I hope Ed WILL earn our votes. Should he do so, would you be onboard?

Killing the host to insure killing the parasite is effective. Are the results truly desirable?
 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

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You are welcome to your own assessment. I save "message sending" for primaries. Outcomes of General Elections are far too dangerous to play with.

?

The only if we let it get a lot worse then the people will rise up and make things better is very strong in some voters.

Well look what has happen in Venezuela that thinking is working very well there.

Things are really really bad but I still don't see the government being over throw and not even being close to be over thrown by an election.

It is very easy to waste your vote on principle and accomplish nothing.
 

Thundar

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Our choices are limited:
Suck it up and vote for Ed hoping for the best.
Vote Northam and accept that we will not advance any gun rights issues for 4 more years
Vote for Cliff Hyra because we cannot stomach either main party candidate and want our voice heard
not vote, for whatever reason or reasons and accept the outcome and continue to carp about it.

I hope Ed WILL earn our votes. Should he do so, would you be onboard?

Wolf,

I am a Libertarian and usually vote Libertarian when given the opportunity, though there are some such as John Redpath that I could not vote for. I do not want this thread or my answer to be about the Libertarian candidate, but about the unsuitability of Ed.

As a gun owner I would not be able to consider, let alone vote for a person who has, it the last two elections, turned his back on gun owners. Ed is a weasel. His conduct during the primary proved it. If my only choices were Gilespie and Northam, I would definitely write in an honorable candidate instead of filling in the bubble for either of those two clowns.

BTW I am starting to worry about Chris Hyra. the Libertarian Candidate. He has not answered my queries about the policy page on his website. It does not include a single word about gun rights. If Hyra does not have a fully throated endorsement of gun rights, I will probably vote for Gail the Rail (is she running this time around? - She used to be the Green Party candidate and has a lot of crazy positions, but at least she is not afraid to say that she is pro gun)

Live Free or Die,
Thundar
 
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