Culpeper shooting

[mk4]

Geez, read this:

Police, witness differ on shooting


Also, some of the comments are scary. Not complying with the officer's orders. "I bet you are the type that also thinks cops should shoot a person in the leg or arm and not the chest."

Good grief.

this schnit is making me sick to my stomach. i'm pretty confident that the public won't ever know the true details of the vsp's 'investigation'. go ahead, call me a skeptic...

 

[1911 Enthusiast]

Imagine that, an eyewitness report differs dramatically from the official version after the brotherhood had time to circle the wagons.

Wonder how the eyewitness account was discredited in the VSP version of events?

Bad viewing angle? Too far away? Anti-police bias? Poor eyesight? Poor hearing? Publicity seeker? I suppose there's any number of reasons to justify disregarding a "witness" report. Suspect it'll take a wrongful death lawsuit and years in court before the public will have a chance to reach an informed opinion on the witness's credibility.

 

[Repeater]

VSP "Tight-Lipped"

Tight-Lipped? I bet. Controversy is mounting:

Controversy mounts in police shooting of housewife

Controversy continues to swirl around the hazy circumstances of Thursday’s fatal police shooting of a 54-year-old housewife in a school parking lot on East Street even as the account of a key eyewitness fluctuated, the Virginia State Police remained tight-lipped and a local parent revealed new details.

The VSP would not release the model year of the Wrangler or disclose whether it had power windows or manual windows as are more typical in Jeeps.

The officer’s name is also being withheld.

When the VSP completes its investigation, the findings will be turned over to the commonwealth’s attorney for review and prosecutorial decision, Geller said. The commonwealth will determine if the use of deadly force was justified, and whether to prosecute.

Meanwhile, the Culpeper community continues to express rage, disbelief and sorrow in the wake of these tragic events.

 

[sawah]

Tight-Lipped? I bet. Controversy is mounting:

Controversy mounts in police shooting of housewife

Well not THAT tight: (from an earlier report)

The Culpeper woman fatally shot by a local police officer Thursday morning had closed her driver's side window and was dragging the officer alongside her as she drove away, according to new information from the Virginia State Police.

Suddenly tight-lipped, maybe.

Edit to add: Just how long does it take the VSP to investigate what should be an open-and-shut case, with RAS sufficent to justify shooting someone 6-9 times? Even if there's some controversy, if it takes this long to solve when ALL the evidence is in their direct possession, how do they ever solve a complex case?

 

[DocWalker]

Well not THAT tight: (from an earlier report)



Suddenly tight-lipped, maybe.

Edit to add: Just how long does it take the VSP to investigate what should be an open-and-shut case, with RAS sufficent to justify shooting someone 6-9 times? Even if there's some controversy, if it takes this long to solve when ALL the evidence is in their direct possession, how do they ever solve a complex case?

The VSP having all the evidence in their possession means they can manipulate it, change it, lose it, or other wise make it fit into their brother in blues version.

 

[sawah]

The VSP having all the evidence in their possession means they can manipulate it, change it, lose it, or other wise make it fit into their brother in blues version.

Imagine the discussion. 'Gee boss, the window appears to have been all the way up.'

VSP Captain: 'Your point is...'
VSP Tech: 'Well we already said he was caught in it and dragged. How do we...?'

I have a feeling the Jeep will be in an unfortunate fishing accident.

 

[MamabearCali]

Let's say everything the officer said is true. Let's say his non-dominate arm was stuck in the window (never mind how it got there) and he had no choice but to fire and release his arm....why the follow-up shots......hmmmm. I am not a lawyer, but I know if a assailant attempts to assault me, I fire my gun to get him off me and then he runs away, if I pursue him and shoot again I am off to the slammer.

 

[wylde007]

Protected class with different rules.

 

[Repeater]

Let's say everything the officer said is true.


....why the follow-up shots......hmmmm.

It's known as "Contagious Shooting"

I remember the shooting of Sean Bell. The NYPD cops all shot at his vehicle as he drove away until they had emptied their magazines:

Five of the seven officers investigating the club were involved in the shooting. Detective Paul Headley fired one round, Officer Michael Carey fired three, Officer Marc Cooper fired four, Officer Gescard Isnora fired eleven, and veteran officer Michael Oliver emptied two full magazines, firing 31 shots from a 9mm handgun and pausing to reload at least once.

I'm using the term "Contagious Shooting" here even though one cop is involved in this incident, because now that most LEOs carry semi-autos instead of, say the classic .38 Special, these cops often will fire mindlessly until their magazines are exhausted:

How can you control a contagion of police overreaction? By controlling the crucial mechanism: guns. The key number in the Diallo case wasn't 41; it was 16. Two of the four officers accounted for 32 of the 41 bullets, because each of them emptied his weapon. NYPD rules "require that the officers carry nine millimeter semi-automatic pistols with 16 shots in the magazine and the first trigger pull being a conventional trigger pull and all subsequent trigger pulls being a hair trigger pull," one defense lawyer told the jury. That's why the officers fired so many shots so fast: Their guns, loaded with 64 rounds, "were all capable of being emptied in less than four seconds."

Same thing this week. Thirty-one of the 50 bullets reportedly came from one officer's 16-round semiautomatic. One reload, two clips, total mayhem.

This is why Mayor David Dinkins and his police commissioners, including Ray Kelly, originally opposed giving cops semiautomatic weapons. In 1993, when they gave in, they put a 10-round limit on the clips. A year later, Mayor Rudy Giuliani and his commissioner lifted the cap. They argued that cops shouldn't be outgunned and would handle the weapons responsibly. It's the same argument the National Rifle Association makes for the freedom to use firearms: Guns don't kill people; people kill people.

Contagious shooting blows that argument away. If cops fire reflexively, there's no moral difference between people and guns. They're both machines, and based on recent shootings, we should limit clips or firing speed to control their damage. No responsibility, no freedom.

 

[Repeater]

This is "utter fiction"

This, from John Wesley Hall, over at fourthamendment.com:

ID: This motorist was free to ignore the officer's tapping on his window; he consented to a stop

An officer came up to defendant’s parked car and tapped on the window. Defendant was free to ignore it. State v. Randle, 2012 Ida. App. LEXIS 11 (February 6, 2012).

[I still don’t buy this utter fiction. People who ignore police “commands” or even suggestions do it at their peril, and most of them know it. Only the truly street smart would walk away. Probably what’s more laughable is watching the DA and the LEO argue to the court that he was free to ignore it all to justify the stop. In my jurisdiction, and most of them, you'd be arrested for driving off. I’m representing a guy Tasered in the back three times for not responding fast enough to what was supposedly a “consensual encounter.”]

Cops with weapons are dangerous people -- You will Obey!!

 

[sawah]

Protected class with different rules.

While I am not in favor of some LEOs behavior and actions, I've no doubt a lot of cops are excoriated for things that happened in which they had little choice, they get lots of unfair complaints. I think they are the 'man-in-the-middle' with poor support from above.

Here, there's something else going on and the frustrating thing is we may never know what it was.

 

[DocWalker]

While I am not in favor of some LEOs behavior and actions, I've no doubt a lot of cops are excoriated for things that happened in which they had little choice, they get lots of unfair complaints. I think they are the 'man-in-the-middle' with poor support from above.

Here, there's something else going on and the frustrating thing is we may never know what it was.

This officer will always be known as the guy that killed the "unarmed church lady".

 

[Herr Heckler Koch]

This officer will always be known as the guy that killed the "unarmed church lady".

This enforcer will always be infamous, notorious even, as the guy that killed the unarmed church lady.

 

[Repeater]

Reaching for the Keys?

I got to thinking, if the cop really was reaching inside for something, I have to wonder if he was reaching for the keys in the ignition so she could not leave. That overt act might have frightened the poor woman so much, she drove off. Which then pissed the cop off.

It's one thing to be arrested for Contempt of Cop. It's quite another thing to be killed in cold blood.

If that's what actually happened, that is.

 

[MamabearCali]

While I am not in favor of some LEOs behavior and actions, I've no doubt a lot of cops are excoriated for things that happened in which they had little choice, they get lots of unfair complaints. I think they are the 'man-in-the-middle' with poor support from above.

Here, there's something else going on and the frustrating thing is we may never know what it was.

I agree they do a difficult job. Often thankless. However if I a, common citizen, would be expected exercise restrain with a fleeing assailant, and would be criminally charged if I did not. I expect that an officer who is supposed to be trained in how to deal with stressful situation to be able to exercise restraint at least as well as I am. Now if his arm was not in the window as he claimed heaven help him. Even if the facts are blurred so as to give him cover, that is not something I would want to live with.

 

[Citizen]

SNIP I think they are the 'man-in-the-middle' with poor support from above.

You can put that worry to bed. One of the biggest problems is too many police unions and command going to great lengths to protect cops.

Rarely do we see politics coming in against a cop; usually only if there is great public outrage, or incontravertible evidence like a video tape that gives rise to great public outrage. Then, the politicians and chiefs will start to throw the cop to the wolves.

Otherwise, the lengths they will go to are sometimes breathtaking.

 

[marshaul]

I remember the shooting of Sean Bell.

[police commissioner Raymond] Kelly has put the five officers involved on paid administrative leave and stripped them of their weapons, a move the New York Times called "forceful".

 

[sawah]

You can put that worry to bed. One of the biggest problems is too many police unions and command going to great lengths to protect cops.

Rarely do we see politics coming in against a cop; usually only if there is great public outrage, or incontravertible evidence like a video tape that gives rise to great public outrage. Then, the politicians and chiefs will start to throw the cop to the wolves.

Otherwise, the lengths they will go to are sometimes breathtaking.

I'll defer to your experience but I'm just going on an article I read in a gun magazine about problems being a beat cop.

 

[Citizen]

I'll defer to your experience but I'm just going on an article I read in a gun magazine about problems being a beat cop.

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but personal knowledge trumps deference any day. Meaning, you'll be better armed for future discussions if you have read it yourself. You won't persuade many discussions if you say "but Citizen knows all about it, and I trust him." (No matter how flattered it makes me feel. )

Check out a couple blogs to start:

The Agitator

Injustice Everywhere

 

[TFred]

Interesting development. Anybody know anything about the Fauquier CA? User certainly must... his home town...

TFred

Snips below.

Special counsel looks at slaying in Culpeper

A special prosecutor has been named in the case in which a Culpeper town police officer shot and killed an unarmed Culpeper woman last Thursday morning.

According to police Chief Chris Jenkins, Fauquier County Commonwealth’s Attorney James Fisher has been appointed to help probe the shooting death of 54-year-old Patricia A. Cook by an as yet unidentified officer.

Chief Jenkins, visibly upset by the events, also issued a written statement Tuesday night regarding the incident.
Jenkins also told The Free Lance–Star: “We will do the right thing.”

Culpeper Town Police Chief Chris Jenkins’ statement:

“I would like to take a moment to acknowledge the recent loss of one our local residents, Mrs. Patricia Cook.

“The mayor has asked us to be patient and allow the Virginia State Police to conduct its investigation.

“At this time, the town police department can only await the results of the Virginia State Police investigation, and we ask that citizens do the same.

“The Culpeper Police Department has enjoyed an excellent relationship with its citizens, and it is our sincere hope that this will continue. We thank the community for its past support and trust. I can assure you that all the men and women of the police department are deeply committed to your service.”