Huh?check out where the shooting range is in pine bluffs ( inside the city limits)
A little common sense keeps people from looking like nut jobs and federal law says they cant buy guns
This is not "Hassling" anyone exercising their rights, as long as the responding officers conduct themselves asthey should.
I have always open carried except for a few times when my duster covered it, but have never had any problems. I have even been asked to pose with tourist's kids so that they could take a picture. I wonder how many family albums I'm in?In having read several of the replies on this forumthere werea fewthat related to howsome peoplehad been "Hassled" by law enforcement for carrying openly. What many of these folks probably need to understand was that these officers were most likley responding to a "Man with a gun call" that had been phoned in by a citizen who saw them packing and was made nervous enough by that they theyphoned it in.
I am a police officer and alwayscarry while off duty. With that said, I always carry concealed. I am still ready to take action should I need to do so but I am not making people around me nervous. It is my understanding that Wyoming honors most concealed carry permits issued by other states (Check the laws on this one)so concealed carry, for the most part,should not be an issue here if you have such a permit.
Those who do not have a permit, or who wish to carry openly even though they do,must understand that their character or good intent is not apparent to the casual observer. Nervous people will occassionaly call law enforcement on thisand when called, law enforcement must respond to investigate. This is not "Hassling" anyone exercising their rights, as long as the responding officers conduct themselves asthey should.
Welcome to the forum, officer mattman. I have a CO permit and usually do carry concealed; but as you know, WY is considering canceling recognition of my permit. Then my only armed self-defense option in WY would be OC.Nervous people will occassionaly call law enforcement on thisand when called, law enforcement must respond to investigate. This is not "Hassling" anyone exercising their rights, as long as the responding officers conduct themselves asthey should.
In having read several of the replies on this forumthere werea fewthat related to howsome peoplehad been "Hassled" by law enforcement for carrying openly...
... Nervous people will occassionaly call law enforcement on thisand when called, law enforcement must respond to investigate. This is not "Hassling" anyone exercising their rights, as long as the responding officers conduct themselves asthey should.
What does the Pine Bluffs PD have to say about this issue? I called them (307-245-3777) and was assured "until further notice" I would not be arrested or fined if I OCed in town. Although I do not travel very often to Pine Bluffs I am planning on attending the Town Council meeting on the 23rd of this month. That will be my day to put the "until further notice" issue to the test.
Wow, that might have come out of California! :X
Subsection (c) does not allow any exceptions for self defense. Clearly unconstitutional. Not even allowing BB guns to be shot is pretty extreme.
Subsection (d) does not allow any exceptions even if you have a state permit to carry concealed.
Is this a recent addition to the ordinances? If so, I'd find out who created it, and run against him next election. You should be a shoo-in.
It probably was written decades ago, is my guess. You could petition the council to remove it since it is so much in violation of both the constitution and the pre-emption statutes. Otherwise, ignore it. If someone tries to arrest you for it, see if you can sue for false arrest and make some money out of it (you could use that point to show the council why the ordinance should be repealed - save the council from a lawsuit.)
If the council won't move on it, that is like many government agencies I have seen before. State passes a law, and municipalities ignore it. Laws are only for us peons, it seems. Well, why pay attention to such a law? I wouldn't.
I will be attending the next town meeting that I can attend, and will be bringing up several issues on this. A few of you have pointed out things that I had not noticed. I was told (by Law Enforcement here) that concealed carry (with a permit) was the only way you could carry in town limits, and that open carry would be a $750.00 fine and an automatic court appearance. As I stated before I have been open-carrying for the seven years that I've lived here with no incident, and I'm hoping to resolve this without being arrested, but I am not going to stop carrying just because someone can't read.
On a side note:
A very interesting result of having people read (e):
my kids ages 10, 13, read it as only being allowed to conceal carry
all adults (so far) have read it as meaning that you can open-carry as long as you are not doing so with the purpose of hurting someone.
Maybe our cops, and town leaders have the mind set of younger children?
(xviii) Regulate, prevent or suppress riots, disturbances, disorderly assemblies or parades, or any other conduct which disturbs or jeopardizes the public health, safety, peace or morality, in any public or private place.
This is the dangerous part of legislation that went into this code
W.S. 15-1-103(a)(xviii), gives city's and towns to write their own code as they see fit.
Just read (xviii) it brushes a broad stroke that is up for interpretation (or any other conduct which disturbs or jeopardizes the public health, safety, peace or morality, in any public or private place)
I quoted only a small part of both of your posts, because I think that portion well represents the thrust of them....It is not meant to infringe the rights of people open carrying.
oshane wrote:I quoted only a small part of both of your posts, because I think that portion well represents the thrust of them....It is not meant to infringe the rights of people open carrying.
I don't know whether you have read the entire thread, nor do I know what experience you have with those in authority trying to twist what is "clear".
Whatever the intent of the legislature, unless it is crystal clear, you can be assured that the letter of the law can and will be turned against you by those intent on making a point. As someone else said previously, those people will do their best to make black white, and vice versa.
Yes, you may win as you work yourself up the court system to the WSC, but at what cost??
I believe that our mayor, and town council have every intention of taking care of this matter, but it is not a process that can be done overnight. Would you want to live somewhere where laws could be changed overnight, ruling out any chance of you having a say in the matter? I have emailed the town attorney someordinances that I felt were worded in an appropriate manner to uphold state laws,and give citizens their freedoms. whether or not he uses them, I stillfelt compelled to offer him my $.02 worth. I do not know how long this will take,and I do not plan on letting the matter drop; I also do not plan to harrass the council, making matters worse for everyone involved, and making those of us who enjoy our "right to carry" an enemy to the council.BB62 wrote:
oshane wrote:I quoted only a small part of both of your posts, because I think that portion well represents the thrust of them....It is not meant to infringe the rights of people open carrying.
I don't know whether you have read the entire thread, nor do I know what experience you have with those in authority trying to twist what is "clear".
Whatever the intent of the legislature, unless it is crystal clear, you can be assured that the letter of the law can and will be turned against you by those intent on making a point. As someone else said previously, thosepeople will do their best to make black white, and vice versa.
Yes, you may win as you work yourself up the court system to the WSC, but at what cost??
Yes, I read the entire thread, and I manifestly understand the tendency of the police and the executive of a jurisdiction to over-interpret laws in favor of the state.
You asked rhetorically that "you may win . . . [in] the court system . . . but at what cost?" Yes, it is always a huge hassle to go to court, especially because there is a risk of losing.
So, is it worth it to attempt to or lobby to have the legislated law clarified, narrowed, specified so the risk of having to ever go to court is minimized. Yes! Always.
That said, what I am pointing out is that in many cases that people were hypothesizing on this thread (over-eager LEOs arresting you), the prosecutor would not charge you or the trial court would likely dismiss, find in summary judgment for the defendant (you) or if not, the Supreme Court of Wyoming would (eventually) find in your favor.
Would that be a large cost that no one should have to bear? Yes. However, presuming you won (most likely), it would also set a new or clarify an old precedent for law enforcement.
One thing that I found interesting about the Pine Bluffs situation was that the mayor, the council and the city attorney were entirely rational and knew the pre-emption law well enough to realize the local law (an old one) was . . . preempted.
Sometimes people wonder why laws/ordinances that have been overruled or preempted are not taken off the books. It's because the law is simply not a well-oiled or engineered system. If "everybody" (i.e. the council) knows that the ordinance is now moot by state statute or case law, then they rationalize not acting, because it's not that important as the legal community knows the ordinance is dead letter.
Should they repeal the law? Yes! It is worth their time: probably not. Is it worth ours? Yes. So I also advocate the lobbying to repeal preempted ordinances, too.
But in the meantime, you shouldn't be worried about the ones listed in this thread.
Yes, I read the entire thread...
One thing that I found interesting about the Pine Bluffs situation was that the mayor, the council and the city attorney were entirely rational and knew the pre-emption law well enough to realize the local law (an old one) was . . . preempted...
I agree.I believe that our mayor, and town council have every intention of taking care of this matter, but it is not a process that can be done overnight...