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DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
I happen to agree with the Reverend. The statement that the more you look like the community,the fewer problems you would have is spot on in my opinion. I don't see his statement as bringing "race" into it as much as an indictment of the DPD. I have no doubt that there was a young man in his neighborhood who was taken down with guns drawn by the DPD for OCing a gun. I was also surprised that, except for the statement that Sean should not "test the waters" too soon, I think the Reverend's other statements seemed generally supportive of Sean exercising his rights and his two statements of congratulating Sean seem to show that he really has no problem with Sean's OCing.
 

Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
I think that when you get bucked off, you should get right back on.

Agreed, but everyone is different. If he chooses not to carry that is his choice and we should respect that. I have family that will never carry ever. Do I wish they would, sure. As long as I respect them and they do like wise it is a happy median. They see that it can be done safely and responsibly and I get their support and they mine also.
 

Evil Creamsicle

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
1,264
Location
Police State, USA
Although I did enjoy the rev. making his point when he said that 'if people open carry in Detroit, the people and criminals who concealed carry will me more afraid' or something of that nature.
 
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HKcarrier

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
816
Location
michigan
Leave it to the reverand to make it all about race, what a bunch of crap. And then that other dude was making it about YOU MUST RESPECT THE police.



I didn't think the Rev. was making it a black/white thing... I think he was saying from my area, the police aren't so nice....


The "you must respect the police" guy is a TOOL.
 

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
Charlie PLANKTON is a tool beyond all tools. My ears bleed every time he opens his pie hole! God help any of his past clients ,, your honor since my client did not tremble in awe of the presence of a PEACE OFFICER the defense rests... :eek:
i agree about his voice. i don't think, however, that he was saying that one SHOULD respect the police. i think he was just stating that this particular case was about sean's disrespect.
 
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TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
i agree about his voice. i don't think, however, that he was saying that one SHOULD respect the police. i think he was just stating that this particular case was about sean's disrespect.

And there was no evidence that Sean was disrespectful. If you listen to Sean, the police were the ones that were disrespecting him....

Is standard operating procedure for the city of Birmingham police to record their pedestrian encounters? If so, where did this recording go? If they have one, they are required to turn it over as exculpatory evidence.
 

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
oh, well, in the let it rip segment, sean admitted with no shame that he responded to the police in a defiant manner.
defiance is listed as a synonym to disrespect in the thesaurus
 
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smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
absolutely. no question about that. no one ever claimed that contempt of cop is a crime. however, the officers in this case treated it as if it were.
 
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Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
I happen to agree with the Reverend. The statement that the more you look like the community,the fewer problems you would have is spot on in my opinion. I don't see his statement as bringing "race" into it as much as an indictment of the DPD. I have no doubt that there was a young man in his neighborhood who was taken down with guns drawn by the DPD for OCing a gun. I was also surprised that, except for the statement that Sean should not "test the waters" too soon, I think the Reverend's other statements seemed generally supportive of Sean exercising his rights and his two statements of congratulating Sean seem to show that he really has no problem with Sean's OCing.

Come on really. The issue was rights in relation to guns. He was implying that a black man would have been shot put in the same position. Purely speculation and emotion driven. That's certainly a racial bias. There are blacks that OC in Detroit and except for the early portion of the OC movement, but not so much now. Why bring race into the discussion.

Sean WAS arrested and tried and he is white. He was also disrespected by the LEO/s from the beginning.

I agree that he seems generally supportive of Sean and his stance on civil rights and exercising them, he just supported the anti-gun party line. I think he did have a problem with PEOPLE OCing based on his statements, though I did like his ta da moment when he said that if people OCed perhaps crime would go down.
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
Come on really. The issue was rights in relation to guns. He was implying that a black man would have been shot put in the same position. Purely speculation and emotion driven. That's certainly a racial bias. There are blacks that OC in Detroit and except for the early portion of the OC movement, but not so much now. Why bring race into the discussion.

Sean WAS arrested and tried and he is white. He was also disrespected by the LEO/s from the beginning.

I agree that he seems generally supportive of Sean and his stance on civil rights and exercising them, he just supported the anti-gun party line. I think he did have a problem with PEOPLE OCing based on his statements, though I did like his ta da moment when he said that if people OCed perhaps crime would go down.

I still stand by my opinion; if he was really "anti" he very easily could have brought out the tried and true "guns should be banned" tripe that we tend to hear from "Reverend" Al or "Reverend" Jesse, or "Reverend" Pfluger; he didn't. I disagree about him trying to imply anything other than what he said. Why would he need to? Would any of the panelists or guests argued with him if he had...no. Would people be upset with bringing race into it...no, it's what people would expect. I actually think it was about as positive regarding OC as he could be without actually advocating OC for people who would follow his advice with no thought to potential consequences. Many people in our country, whether they be African-American, Latino, European-American, etc accept what a minister/priest says without question, right or wrong. I think his response was said in acknowledgement of that responsibility.
I also think we need to promote OC among those who are often faced with overzealous police tactics. Assuming his vignette is true regarding the young man in his neighborhood, I think the next "phase" of OC in Michigan should be expanding the message to ALL those who live in our state's more urban areas. I am not saying that we haven't been accepting of others who don't match our SES, and fully realizing that people tend to associate more or less with those who share similar backgrounds and experiences, I think it is incumbent upon everyone who is willing to go to Birmingham to also be as willing to advocate for individuals as represented in the Reverend's story. Has anyone closer to the Detroit area even enquired of the Reverend if he has any further information regarding the young man or asked him if he would be willing to find out more and pass it on to us so that we can follow up with the DPD?
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
I still stand by my opinion; if he was really "anti" he very easily could have brought out the tried and true "guns should be banned" tripe that we tend to hear from "Reverend" Al or "Reverend" Jesse, or "Reverend" Pfluger; he didn't. I disagree about him trying to imply anything other than what he said. Why would he need to? Would any of the panelists or guests argued with him if he had...no. Would people be upset with bringing race into it...no, it's what people would expect. I actually think it was about as positive regarding OC as he could be without actually advocating OC for people who would follow his advice with no thought to potential consequences. Many people in our country, whether they be African-American, Latino, European-American, etc accept what a minister/priest says without question, right or wrong. I think his response was said in acknowledgement of that responsibility.
I also think we need to promote OC among those who are often faced with overzealous police tactics. Assuming his vignette is true regarding the young man in his neighborhood, I think the next "phase" of OC in Michigan should be expanding the message to ALL those who live in our state's more urban areas. I am not saying that we haven't been accepting of others who don't match our SES, and fully realizing that people tend to associate more or less with those who share similar backgrounds and experiences, I think it is incumbent upon everyone who is willing to go to Birmingham to also be as willing to advocate for individuals as represented in the Reverend's story. Has anyone closer to the Detroit area even enquired of the Reverend if he has any further information regarding the young man or asked him if he would be willing to find out more and pass it on to us so that we can follow up with the DPD?

Well you know I think I'm right and you are wrong...nananana nah.:lol:
 

Evil Creamsicle

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
1,264
Location
Police State, USA
Thank you Venator and DrTodd, for being able to disagree without bickering at each other like ninnies, like tends to happen sometimes during these discussions.
 
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