My fellings to a tee all this sign talk is a lot of smoke.
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Calendars Committee fails Open Carry
- Thread starter MR Redenck
- Start date
SA-TX
Centurion
What happens to the OCer isn't the issue. Their concern is that such encounters will cause legit 30.06 signs to be posted. I maintain that this will not happen very often but many disagree with me and they are not willing to take much risk since OC will be practiced so rarely. I believe these are mutually exclusive but this view is in the minority.
The fact is if we are going to get any form of OC in Texas we need to work with Charles and other folks who are pro gun but not necessarily pro-OC. We need a compromise that they can support. We must have a unified front when going to the Legislature.
SA-TX
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Kingfish
Regular Member
No sir...This is the last thing the 2A movement needs ANYWHERE.
NO MORE COMPROMISING!!!!!
Get rid of 30.06 and everything else is moot.
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Originally Posted by SA-TX
We need a compromise
I understand the sentiment, but it is not always realistic. It is better to evaluate the outcome based on the players and their history + present stance.
An all or nothing position frequently will net you nothing - no benefit there.
Kingfish
Regular Member
I am not asking for all or nothing. I am fine with incrementalism. The point is that to make a "compromise" that gives the antis more than we get is not good.
TexasNative
Regular Member
That's not what SA-TX was talking about. He was talking about OC activists compromising with those resistant to OC in Texas, but are pro-gun on the whole, such as TSRA. If OC proponents don't compromise with those who are concerned about how OC may affect CC in Texas, then OC will never pass here.
So yes, compromise with other gunnies is necessary if we are to get OC in Texas. Nobody said anything about compromising with anti-gun folks.
Kingfish
Regular Member
There is a difference between being pro-gun and being pro-freedom. Mr. Cotton is NOT the latter.
Again, get rid of 30.06 and there is no problem.
MR Redenck
Regular Member
It doesnt matter what SA-TX is talking about because "Talk doesnt provide Solutions".
Anyone who is involved with HB2756 understands the concern of PC30.06 signs being posted. " None of us want that to happen"!
The issue with TSRA or anyone else all revolves around " NOT HELPING". Those people are willing to oppose the bill based on the PC30.06 prediction, but offer nothing to help resolve it. The only thing we hear is " Seperate Signs".... Our concern is criminal trespassing if a person fails to see a "sign". Criminal trespassing is not a solution.
Myself as well as others will listen to anyone who can offer reasonable solution to any problem. One thing were not going to do is allow anyone to be charged with criminal trespassing simply becasue they chose to carry a firearm in a legal manner for self defense.
Opposition without solutions is nothing more than "opposition". By helping provide solutions to the "claimed" problem, the opposition will become welcome.
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MR Redenck
Regular Member
Man I understand what your try to accomplish with PC30.06. The fact is, you cant simply get rid of it. " That will create bigger issues". Right now the posting requirements for PC30.06 are very clear.
For us to get rid of PC30.06, we have to remove other laws along with it. If not, the problem will be worse, " Criminal Trespassing".
Trying to get it all done with one bill would be pretty much impossible.
SA-TX
Centurion
Much to Gain
OC without 30.06 protection still a huge win. We will go from zero public OC to it being legal except for designated places. Yes you might have to tread carefully when entering businesses in urban or suburban areas but Texas is far greater than these few places. I do not understand why this isn't a great first step. I doubt that these places would be where most OCers would choose to exercise their rights. Let's make it legal and then when the sky doesn't fall work towards improvements.
SA-TX
OC without 30.06 protection still a huge win. We will go from zero public OC to it being legal except for designated places. Yes you might have to tread carefully when entering businesses in urban or suburban areas but Texas is far greater than these few places. I do not understand why this isn't a great first step. I doubt that these places would be where most OCers would choose to exercise their rights. Let's make it legal and then when the sky doesn't fall work towards improvements.
SA-TX
MR Redenck
Regular Member
Well, I cant disagree with you on any of that. Actually I dont even care if open carry starts off with a seperate sign than concealed carry.
What Does Not need to happen is criminal prosecution because somebody walked into your store and didnt notice open carry wasnt allowed. " Now if they fail to leave or cover it up after you say so, screw em"..
My idea of guns and crime actually involves someone doing something other than carrying a gun in a holster.
I could ramble on but I think you get the idea.
To ALL Whom it may Concern throught Texas:
I have an Idea that may be Crazy enough to Work in The Texas Legislature.
My Idea is to Strike a Portion of Texas Penal Code 46.035, and Replace such Portion with The Following Verbiage:
A Person Commits an Offense whenever such Person Knowingly, Recklessly, or Negligently Fails or Refuses to Conceal a Handgun whenever such Person is in any County or any City that has a Population of at least 100,000 Persons in accordance with The 2010 United States Decentinial Census, or any Subsequent Decentinial United States Census thereafter.
A Person who Carries a Unconcealed Handgun in a County or a City that has a Confirmed Population of at least 100,000 Persons in Violation of This Provision shall be Guilty of a Class A Misdemeanor.
The Penal Provisions above shall not Apply to or Effect any Public Servant, or any other Person is on or within any Rightful Property or Premises which is His or Her Own, or which has been Rented to or Leased to Him or Her, and shall not Apply to or Effect any Person who is Summoned by a Public Servant while such Person is under The Direction of such Public Servant.
The Penal Provisions of This Code Section shall not Apply to or Effect any person who Carries a Unconcealed Handgun within any County or any City that has a Confirmed Popualtion of 99,999 or less Persons according to The 2010 United States Decentinial Census, or any Subsequent Decentinial United States Census thereafter.
aadvark
***This is MERELY Suggestive, and I am not a Legislator.***
I have an Idea that may be Crazy enough to Work in The Texas Legislature.
My Idea is to Strike a Portion of Texas Penal Code 46.035, and Replace such Portion with The Following Verbiage:
A Person Commits an Offense whenever such Person Knowingly, Recklessly, or Negligently Fails or Refuses to Conceal a Handgun whenever such Person is in any County or any City that has a Population of at least 100,000 Persons in accordance with The 2010 United States Decentinial Census, or any Subsequent Decentinial United States Census thereafter.
A Person who Carries a Unconcealed Handgun in a County or a City that has a Confirmed Population of at least 100,000 Persons in Violation of This Provision shall be Guilty of a Class A Misdemeanor.
The Penal Provisions above shall not Apply to or Effect any Public Servant, or any other Person is on or within any Rightful Property or Premises which is His or Her Own, or which has been Rented to or Leased to Him or Her, and shall not Apply to or Effect any Person who is Summoned by a Public Servant while such Person is under The Direction of such Public Servant.
The Penal Provisions of This Code Section shall not Apply to or Effect any person who Carries a Unconcealed Handgun within any County or any City that has a Confirmed Popualtion of 99,999 or less Persons according to The 2010 United States Decentinial Census, or any Subsequent Decentinial United States Census thereafter.
aadvark
***This is MERELY Suggestive, and I am not a Legislator.***
MR Redenck
Regular Member
That wouldnt be half as good as the California open carry laws.
Why shouldnt Texans be able to open carry in populated cities over 100,000 when I carry "with no license at all" in places like Phoenix, population of the metro area is 3.5 million people.
I have a friend who lives in the DFW area who carries everyday. They are retired people and could be easy targets for a criminal. He tells me stories about him accidentally fails to conceal. When he notices unpleasant people " taking notice to him", he simply accidentally fails to conceal. The unpleasant people seem to go the other way.
mustangkiller
Regular Member
That's one of the dumbest things I've seen here. This idea would seriously limit who can carry and where they can carry. Possibly even more than the current laws.
I do not like gun laws that are defined by what city you are standing.
EVERYONE..., Wait a Minute Please!
..., again My Article was Merely SUGGESTIVE..., in Light of The Fact that Approximantly 85% of Texas has less than 100,000 People Present in The Vast Majority of Texas Rural Areas.
Although My Proposal may 'Full Well' have been Stupid or Dumb, I only Placed This Proposal in Light of another Fact that Gun Laws only Change for The Better for Law Abiding Citizens only when They are Changed in a 'Piece-Meal' Fashion, as Opposed to an All or Nothing, all at Once, Bill.
Look at Your Neighbors Oklahoma AND New Mexico.
In Oklahoma, Open Carry is NOT Allowed. This Year a Bill came to make it Legal, and it Failed, for The Third Time in a Row. The Bill was an All or Nothing Bill, No Compromises, and thus, No Results. The Bill may have Passed if They would have Considered The Implementation of Training to do so, but The Sponsers Vehemently Refused under The Guise of The Pro-Firearm Groups that They Represented. Therefore The Committee Refused to Pass The Bill.
Next in The State of New Mexico, a Texas Neighbor, there was Introduced a Bill to Allow Permit Holders to Conceal a Handgun ALMOST ANYWHERE in that State, even in otherwise 'Firearm Free Zones', to Include Concealed Carry in Schools, Public Buses, and Bars and Restaurants where there is Alcohol bieng Served. This was too much, too Fast, and The Bill Failed.
***NOTE: In New Mexico, as Opposed to Texas and Oklahoma, Open Carry of ANY Loaded Firearm is Allowed. In Texas only Rifles and Shotguns are Allowed to be Openly Carried. In Oklahoma, One has to be either Hunting, Sport Shooting, or some other Narrow, and I do mean Narrow, Exception must be Met in Order to Open Carry anything at all.***
MANY other States that Allow Open Carry now have Constitutional Carry that Started out with a Permit Sytem, Similiar to what Texas has now, and Gradually Shifted to NOT needing a Permit in ANY Rural Area, outside of an Incorporated Area.
Texas could do The Opposite, but Achieve The Same Thing, by Allowing Open Carry of a Loaded Handgun in Rural Areas, First, then..., Gradually, over some Time, Shift that to a State-wide Law, regardless of a Locality.
The 100,000 Population Estimate is based of off My Research that only Approximantly 15% of Texas would Qualify as being Open Carry Free, but The OTHER 85% would have to Allow it.
I do not Know about You..., but I Think it would be better to get Something as Opposed to Nothing.
However, and again, I am NOT a Legislator, and I will Apologize to anyone who is Aggreived by This Post. It is NOT Fair that Gun Laws should have to Devised in This Way, but Texas has The Second Largest Population in The Country. California, Florida, New York, and Illinios also do NOT Allow Open Carry, AND..., SURPRISE!..., They all have Large Populations as Well. Maybe there is a Coincidence here, but, Truth be Told, Texas is a State of 'Rugged Individualism', and Law-abiding Texans Deserve better. However, Juggernauts like: Dallas, Houston, Austin, Fort Worth, San Antonio, El Paso, AND Corpus Christi will NOT go Quietly in Allowing Open Carry within Their Limits.
I say..., Start with Open Carry of a Loaded Handgun or Revolver in The Frontier, just like You see in The Movies, and Work Your way into The Cities Slowly, with 'Piece-Meal' Legislation.
..., again My Article was Merely SUGGESTIVE..., in Light of The Fact that Approximantly 85% of Texas has less than 100,000 People Present in The Vast Majority of Texas Rural Areas.
Although My Proposal may 'Full Well' have been Stupid or Dumb, I only Placed This Proposal in Light of another Fact that Gun Laws only Change for The Better for Law Abiding Citizens only when They are Changed in a 'Piece-Meal' Fashion, as Opposed to an All or Nothing, all at Once, Bill.
Look at Your Neighbors Oklahoma AND New Mexico.
In Oklahoma, Open Carry is NOT Allowed. This Year a Bill came to make it Legal, and it Failed, for The Third Time in a Row. The Bill was an All or Nothing Bill, No Compromises, and thus, No Results. The Bill may have Passed if They would have Considered The Implementation of Training to do so, but The Sponsers Vehemently Refused under The Guise of The Pro-Firearm Groups that They Represented. Therefore The Committee Refused to Pass The Bill.
Next in The State of New Mexico, a Texas Neighbor, there was Introduced a Bill to Allow Permit Holders to Conceal a Handgun ALMOST ANYWHERE in that State, even in otherwise 'Firearm Free Zones', to Include Concealed Carry in Schools, Public Buses, and Bars and Restaurants where there is Alcohol bieng Served. This was too much, too Fast, and The Bill Failed.
***NOTE: In New Mexico, as Opposed to Texas and Oklahoma, Open Carry of ANY Loaded Firearm is Allowed. In Texas only Rifles and Shotguns are Allowed to be Openly Carried. In Oklahoma, One has to be either Hunting, Sport Shooting, or some other Narrow, and I do mean Narrow, Exception must be Met in Order to Open Carry anything at all.***
MANY other States that Allow Open Carry now have Constitutional Carry that Started out with a Permit Sytem, Similiar to what Texas has now, and Gradually Shifted to NOT needing a Permit in ANY Rural Area, outside of an Incorporated Area.
Texas could do The Opposite, but Achieve The Same Thing, by Allowing Open Carry of a Loaded Handgun in Rural Areas, First, then..., Gradually, over some Time, Shift that to a State-wide Law, regardless of a Locality.
The 100,000 Population Estimate is based of off My Research that only Approximantly 15% of Texas would Qualify as being Open Carry Free, but The OTHER 85% would have to Allow it.
I do not Know about You..., but I Think it would be better to get Something as Opposed to Nothing.
However, and again, I am NOT a Legislator, and I will Apologize to anyone who is Aggreived by This Post. It is NOT Fair that Gun Laws should have to Devised in This Way, but Texas has The Second Largest Population in The Country. California, Florida, New York, and Illinios also do NOT Allow Open Carry, AND..., SURPRISE!..., They all have Large Populations as Well. Maybe there is a Coincidence here, but, Truth be Told, Texas is a State of 'Rugged Individualism', and Law-abiding Texans Deserve better. However, Juggernauts like: Dallas, Houston, Austin, Fort Worth, San Antonio, El Paso, AND Corpus Christi will NOT go Quietly in Allowing Open Carry within Their Limits.
I say..., Start with Open Carry of a Loaded Handgun or Revolver in The Frontier, just like You see in The Movies, and Work Your way into The Cities Slowly, with 'Piece-Meal' Legislation.
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JohnS
New member
After reading all of the post on the tread...
I'll be 71 in 1 1/2 months and after reading all the post on the tread, it appears I will not see OC in my life time. As a life member of both NRA & TSRA, I'm disappointed that they are not backing the 2nd Amendment as written.
I'll be 71 in 1 1/2 months and after reading all the post on the tread, it appears I will not see OC in my life time. As a life member of both NRA & TSRA, I'm disappointed that they are not backing the 2nd Amendment as written.
PrayingForWar
Founder's Club Member
I don't like any gun laws.
I have to think positively here. We put the ball further this session than last session. Just like the moonbats in Austin kept pushing for the stupid train, we will eventually get OC if we keep up the pressure and get our message out there. I wish like hell we had the financial backing the econazis did, but we don't.
If there's anyone reading this who could professionaly lobby funding from organizations or even gun companies we could easily do a better job of promoting our cause. Perhaps that's already being done and I'm just not privy to it.
I talk OC with everyone I know. Few people tell me they oppose it outright. Most of the time if they raise any concern at all, it's about people being obnoxious about it. I respond that in places where there are no laws against it, people seem to adhere to a certain ettiquette or they find themselves under police scrutiny. No need to point out there have been to many times where undue scrutiny was evident.
So don't be down ya'll. We got further this session than last. The repugs had other issues they were much more concerned about in order to weaken the dems. That will still work in our favor. I think we can actually get it onto the govenors desk 2 years from now.
MR Redenck
Regular Member
They never have. That's why Im a GOA life member.