sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Great job!!!!
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Buddy kicked out of library for OC
- Thread starter bennie1986
- Start date
bennie1986
Regular Member
Update
Mike Piccolo called me back today and said that he has spoken to the library director about open carry. They agree that there policy is in violation with state law and are going to have the policy changed. The amended policy will change the verbiage to carrying a firearm in violation of state law is prohibited. They plan on having a meeting with the branch managers to discuss how to identify between someone carrying in an appropriate fashion and those who are not. They plan on officially changing this during the next board meeting and as Orphan pointed out the next one is on the 21st at 4:30pm. I work till 5:30 but am going to try and get some time off to be there, I hope I can get a few others to join me.
Mike Piccolo called me back today and said that he has spoken to the library director about open carry. They agree that there policy is in violation with state law and are going to have the policy changed. The amended policy will change the verbiage to carrying a firearm in violation of state law is prohibited. They plan on having a meeting with the branch managers to discuss how to identify between someone carrying in an appropriate fashion and those who are not. They plan on officially changing this during the next board meeting and as Orphan pointed out the next one is on the 21st at 4:30pm. I work till 5:30 but am going to try and get some time off to be there, I hope I can get a few others to join me.
o2ryan
Regular Member
Great job Ben! I will see what I can do about joining you.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
I will be there, good job Ben.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
I tell kids (or those who are curious about it) if a gun is in someone's hand call the cops.
It's either a bad guy, or a good guy dealing with a bad guy, either way call the popo.
Seems like it should be a short meeting to me.
bennie1986
Regular Member
Went to the board meeting today and am happy to say they agreed to change the library policy. The city attorney laid out the facts for the board members and though some were visibly upset with the idea of firearms in the library it was a unanimous vote. KWolf and I both OCed at the meeting and had no issue.
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Stretch
Regular Member
Excellent work!
Tomas
Regular Member
Obviously the Seattle Library Board feels they are well above state law... 
Stretch
Regular Member
Hello Xxxxx,
I was deeply disappointed to read tonight of a response you provided which places the Seattle Public Library in direct violation of the State of Washington’s RCW’s.
In your response, quoted below, you represent the library as a sensitive government place. That is factually incorrect per, RCW 9.41.300, which clearly spells out locations which are allowed to prohibit firearms. You will notice that in no such language, libraries are not mentioned. Since the library is not listed as a place where firearms are prohibited, the Seattle Public Library system is creating a “law” or policy which directly violates RCW 9.41.290. State preemption, as linked, allows lawful citizens the right to openly carry a firearm inside the public libraries in this state, without fear of being trespassed or harassed.
I would respectfully request that the Seattle Public Library review the unlawful policy and immediately eliminate the unlawful language of this policy to coordinate with the State Law. As an example, and for your benefit, just this week the Spokane Library have amended their unlawful policy which also banned firearms in their library network as well. I hope that you will take the time to read the laws which pertain to this violation of our right’s as citizens and also encourage the change within your library network as well.
“Greetings from The Seattle Public Library. Thank you for your question about our Rules of Conduct. Under state law, the Library Board is required to enact such reasonable rules and regulations as the trustees find necessary to assure the greatest benefit to the greatest number. Because the Library is a sensitive place, like a school or government building, dedicated principally to reading and education, the Library has long had a policy that possession of firearms is incompatible with the Library's purpose. Sincerely,
Xxxxx Xxxxxxx
Communications Director”
My Best Regards,
Xxxx X. Xxxxxx
This is the email I sent to the SPL and thought I should put it here as well.
I was deeply disappointed to read tonight of a response you provided which places the Seattle Public Library in direct violation of the State of Washington’s RCW’s.
In your response, quoted below, you represent the library as a sensitive government place. That is factually incorrect per, RCW 9.41.300, which clearly spells out locations which are allowed to prohibit firearms. You will notice that in no such language, libraries are not mentioned. Since the library is not listed as a place where firearms are prohibited, the Seattle Public Library system is creating a “law” or policy which directly violates RCW 9.41.290. State preemption, as linked, allows lawful citizens the right to openly carry a firearm inside the public libraries in this state, without fear of being trespassed or harassed.
I would respectfully request that the Seattle Public Library review the unlawful policy and immediately eliminate the unlawful language of this policy to coordinate with the State Law. As an example, and for your benefit, just this week the Spokane Library have amended their unlawful policy which also banned firearms in their library network as well. I hope that you will take the time to read the laws which pertain to this violation of our right’s as citizens and also encourage the change within your library network as well.
“Greetings from The Seattle Public Library. Thank you for your question about our Rules of Conduct. Under state law, the Library Board is required to enact such reasonable rules and regulations as the trustees find necessary to assure the greatest benefit to the greatest number. Because the Library is a sensitive place, like a school or government building, dedicated principally to reading and education, the Library has long had a policy that possession of firearms is incompatible with the Library's purpose. Sincerely,
Xxxxx Xxxxxxx
Communications Director”
My Best Regards,
Xxxx X. Xxxxxx
This is the email I sent to the SPL and thought I should put it here as well.
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JSlack
Regular Member
I would ask for them to cite the RCW.
After all, they should have the resources to do that :lol:
I also wouldn't expect a response back.
Apparently it wasn't a good enough ass kicking. Here is the response I got back from them:
Greetings from The Seattle Public Library. Thank you for your question about our Rules of Conduct. Under state law, the Library Board is required to enact such reasonable rules and regulations as the trustees find necessary to assure the greatest benefit to the greatest number. Because the Library is a sensitive place, like a school or government building, dedicated principally to reading and education, the Library has long had a policy that possession of firearms is incompatible with the Library's purpose. Sincerely,
Andra AddisonCommunications Director
jt59
Regular Member
There's always someone who didn't get the memo
If you have the time, write a letter to the staff or the board members:
http://www.spl.org/default.asp?pageID=about_contact
Here is my correspondence, I'll post their response...Spokane library board wasn't too happy about it either, but they complied.
Anyway, my e-mail to the head of the libraries...
Dear Ms. Hilldreth,
I am writing you regarding a response that was recieved by a friend of mine regarding Seattle library rules from Ms Addison, your communications director...the RCW that she is referencing "authorizes", it does not "require" and its context is in reference to access to resources (also allowing for fee setting for checking out resourses and such), not rule making on legal weapons.
Greetings from The Seattle Public Library. Thank you for your question about our Rules of Conduct. Under state law, the Library Board is required to enact such reasonable rules and regulations as the trustees find necessary to assure the greatest benefit to the greatest number. Because the Library is a sensitive place, like a school or government building, dedicated principally to reading and education, the Library has long had a policy that possession of firearms is incompatible with the Library's purpose. Sincerely,
Andra Addison
Communications Director
His question was regarding a violation of rule making (and policy) by the library trustee's regarding the legal carry of of firearms in Seattle Public Library's that is in violation of the state's pre-emption on restrictions of firearms.
"I was deeply disappointed to read tonight of a response you provided which places the Seattle Public Library in direct violation of the State of Washington’s RCW’s.
In your response, quoted above, you represent the library as a sensitive government place. That is factually incorrect per, RCW 9.41.300, which clearly spells out locations which are allowed to prohibit firearms. You will notice that in no such language, libraries are not mentioned. Since the library is not listed as a place where firearms are prohibited, the Seattle Public Library system is creating a “law” or policy which directly violates RCW 9.41.290. State preemption, as linked, allows lawful citizens the right to openly carry a firearm inside the public libraries in this state, without fear of being trespassed or harassed."
Ms Addison is making assumptions (on the status of the library being a "sensitive place, like a school or gov't building" on which she is obviously not qualified to make interpretations of the law, or worse, did not bother to read the citations provided: RCW 9.41.290.
She may also not be aware of the context of http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=27.12.321 in relation to her references that abolish rural school libraries and turn the assets over to your system. This reference clearly differentiates the public library system from "schools" that are subsequently referenced as "sensitive" in RCW 9.41.
The law makes specific exclusions to places that are "sensitive", like schools, courts and certain areas of a jail , but even then, goes so far as to make exceptions to those for dropping off and picking up students.....as well as areas of business' where minors under 21 are excluded (serving alcohol), but allows for carry in a bar that serves food as long as one stays in the service area.
The state code Ms Addison is quoting, is in context to the "Free use of the Library's".... http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=27.12.270 ...and authorizing rule making for the board. It does not authorize rule making by the board in violation of state law and potentially provides a serious liability for the Library and the Board of Trustee's.
Can you imagine, a person legally entitled to own and carry a sidearm (concealed or in "open carry") using one of your facilities. A staff person observes that the person is armed (and thinking they have the library "rule" behind their decision) makes a 911 call to Seattle police for a MWAG (man with a gun). The police, then respond inappropriately as was evidenced by the recent shooting of the native indian wood carver in Seattle....and a library employee puts many people at risk, in their response....
...and it turns out this happened because the Public library had in place an illegal rule and policy regarding firearms and further, trained it's employee's in its application?
The reason that this is important in the situation outlined above, is that there are over 300,000 people in WA that are already legally licensed to carry a weapon for personal protection under the state constitution....if you imagine, that people are not already carrying in the public library and doing this, your kidding yourself. Having a formal rule in place, that is illegal is creating a situation that is ripe for problems....and now that you are formally aware of this, inaction on resolution is inappropriate as a responsible manager to the system.
I am requesting that you remove this policy as the top person in charge, but if it is above your pay grade, then to bring this issue to the board of trustee's, have it reviewed for a legal standing and when found to be illegal, to remove it from your publications, internet sites and implement an HR training bulletin for your employee's to raise awareness.
Here is a link to the standing opionion issued by the State Attny' General, that is specific to this issue:
http://www.atg.wa.gov/AGOOpinions/opinion.aspx?section=archive&id=21188
I would appreciate your response....
best regards,
If you have the time, write a letter to the staff or the board members:
http://www.spl.org/default.asp?pageID=about_contact
Here is my correspondence, I'll post their response...Spokane library board wasn't too happy about it either, but they complied.
Anyway, my e-mail to the head of the libraries...
Dear Ms. Hilldreth,
I am writing you regarding a response that was recieved by a friend of mine regarding Seattle library rules from Ms Addison, your communications director...the RCW that she is referencing "authorizes", it does not "require" and its context is in reference to access to resources (also allowing for fee setting for checking out resourses and such), not rule making on legal weapons.
Greetings from The Seattle Public Library. Thank you for your question about our Rules of Conduct. Under state law, the Library Board is required to enact such reasonable rules and regulations as the trustees find necessary to assure the greatest benefit to the greatest number. Because the Library is a sensitive place, like a school or government building, dedicated principally to reading and education, the Library has long had a policy that possession of firearms is incompatible with the Library's purpose. Sincerely,
Andra Addison
Communications Director
His question was regarding a violation of rule making (and policy) by the library trustee's regarding the legal carry of of firearms in Seattle Public Library's that is in violation of the state's pre-emption on restrictions of firearms.
"I was deeply disappointed to read tonight of a response you provided which places the Seattle Public Library in direct violation of the State of Washington’s RCW’s.
In your response, quoted above, you represent the library as a sensitive government place. That is factually incorrect per, RCW 9.41.300, which clearly spells out locations which are allowed to prohibit firearms. You will notice that in no such language, libraries are not mentioned. Since the library is not listed as a place where firearms are prohibited, the Seattle Public Library system is creating a “law” or policy which directly violates RCW 9.41.290. State preemption, as linked, allows lawful citizens the right to openly carry a firearm inside the public libraries in this state, without fear of being trespassed or harassed."
Ms Addison is making assumptions (on the status of the library being a "sensitive place, like a school or gov't building" on which she is obviously not qualified to make interpretations of the law, or worse, did not bother to read the citations provided: RCW 9.41.290.
She may also not be aware of the context of http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=27.12.321 in relation to her references that abolish rural school libraries and turn the assets over to your system. This reference clearly differentiates the public library system from "schools" that are subsequently referenced as "sensitive" in RCW 9.41.
The law makes specific exclusions to places that are "sensitive", like schools, courts and certain areas of a jail , but even then, goes so far as to make exceptions to those for dropping off and picking up students.....as well as areas of business' where minors under 21 are excluded (serving alcohol), but allows for carry in a bar that serves food as long as one stays in the service area.
The state code Ms Addison is quoting, is in context to the "Free use of the Library's".... http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=27.12.270 ...and authorizing rule making for the board. It does not authorize rule making by the board in violation of state law and potentially provides a serious liability for the Library and the Board of Trustee's.
Can you imagine, a person legally entitled to own and carry a sidearm (concealed or in "open carry") using one of your facilities. A staff person observes that the person is armed (and thinking they have the library "rule" behind their decision) makes a 911 call to Seattle police for a MWAG (man with a gun). The police, then respond inappropriately as was evidenced by the recent shooting of the native indian wood carver in Seattle....and a library employee puts many people at risk, in their response....
...and it turns out this happened because the Public library had in place an illegal rule and policy regarding firearms and further, trained it's employee's in its application?
The reason that this is important in the situation outlined above, is that there are over 300,000 people in WA that are already legally licensed to carry a weapon for personal protection under the state constitution....if you imagine, that people are not already carrying in the public library and doing this, your kidding yourself. Having a formal rule in place, that is illegal is creating a situation that is ripe for problems....and now that you are formally aware of this, inaction on resolution is inappropriate as a responsible manager to the system.
I am requesting that you remove this policy as the top person in charge, but if it is above your pay grade, then to bring this issue to the board of trustee's, have it reviewed for a legal standing and when found to be illegal, to remove it from your publications, internet sites and implement an HR training bulletin for your employee's to raise awareness.
Here is a link to the standing opionion issued by the State Attny' General, that is specific to this issue:
http://www.atg.wa.gov/AGOOpinions/opinion.aspx?section=archive&id=21188
I would appreciate your response....
best regards,
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amzbrady
Regular Member
SVG, just curious? Remember to carry sterile!!!!! Does that mean unloaded?
Tawnos
Regular Member
It means without ID
amzbrady
Regular Member
Ahh, I've seen that before and have been trying to figure out where in the rules we had to unload to legally carry.
I know, Wow, what a doofus. Oh well, I have now had my senior moment, (scares me too, since I'm not a senior yet, and it's only getting worse).
Dont you have to carry ID on you at all times?
Tawnos
Regular Member
No, why would you?