• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

All sheriffs in all states should do this.

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,266
Location
Kentucky
Refreshing to see some LEO that actually will honor their oath.


 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,319
Location
here nc
Sooooo
Nice to rant now especially since the emergency risk protection order hasn’t passed the house nor governor’s desk, but when signed will the CO or any state’s Sheriff’s associations /Brotherhood of privileged unions enities sign on when [read if] NRA, SAF, ad nauseam professed overseers of this nation’s firearm owners brings legal challenges to the appropriate judicial bench?

Un, er, hummm...i do believe where ERPOs have been instituted in state’s legal systems, not one of the overseer agencies have stepped forward to legally challenge these new laws!
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,266
Location
Kentucky
Sooooo
Nice to rant now especially since the emergency risk protection order hasn’t passed the house nor governor’s desk, but when signed will the CO or any state’s Sheriff’s associations /Brotherhood of privileged unions enities sign on when [read if] NRA, SAF, ad nauseam professed overseers of this nation’s firearm owners brings legal challenges to the appropriate judicial bench?

Un, er, hummm...i do believe where ERPOs have been instituted in state’s legal systems, not one of the overseer agencies have stepped forward to legally challenge these new laws!

The NRA supports red flag.

Still its good to see a few LEOs in the nation are willing to honor their oath even if it costs them personally. That type of a officer is rare in the extreme.

If all all LEO would refuse to enforce unconstitutional law there would be no gun control or attempts pass more .
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,319
Location
here nc
Jan 18 NRA-ILA ERPO position quote:

Some have raised the issue of current ERPO laws in California, Oregon, Vermont and other states, suggesting that the NRA supports those laws. This is false. The NRA strongly opposed these laws because they do not protect due process rights. We will continue to oppose confiscation schemes such as these.

In addition, the NRA opposes any effort to create a federal ERPO law, in which federal agents would be tasked with seizing firearms after a hearing in federal court. As states consider ERPO laws, the NRA will continue to push for the inclusion of strong due process protections. [note: ILA press release’s emphasis not mine]

The requirements of an ERPO process that the NRA could support should include the following:

  • The process should include criminal penalties for those who bring false or frivolous charges.
  • An order should only be granted when a judge makes the determination, by clear and convincing evidence, that the person poses a significant risk of danger to themselves or others.
  • The process should require the judge to make a determination of whether the person meets the state standard for involuntary commitment. Where the standard for involuntary commitment is met, this should be the course of action taken.
  • If an ERPO is granted, the person should receive community-based mental health treatment as a condition of the ERPO.
  • Any ex parte proceeding should include admitting the individual for treatment.
  • A person’s Second Amendment rights should only be temporarily deprived after a hearing before a judge, in which the person has notice of the hearing and is given an opportunity to offer evidence on his or her behalf.
  • There should be a mechanism in place for the return of firearms upon termination of an ERPO, when a person is ordered to relinquish their firearms as a condition of the order.
  • The ERPO process should allow an individual to challenge or terminate the order, with full due process protections in place.
  • The process should allow firearms to be retained by law-abiding third parties, local law enforcement, or a federally licensed firearms dealer when an individual is ordered to relinquish such firearms as a condition of the ERPO. The individual must also have the ability to sell his or her firearms in a reasonable time without violating the order.
Unquote
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,266
Location
Kentucky
Jan 18 NRA-ILA ERPO position quote:

Some have raised the issue of current ERPO laws in California, Oregon, Vermont and other states, suggesting that the NRA supports those laws. This is false. The NRA strongly opposed these laws because they do not protect due process rights. We will continue to oppose confiscation schemes such as these.

In addition, the NRA opposes any effort to create a federal ERPO law, in which federal agents would be tasked with seizing firearms after a hearing in federal court. As states consider ERPO laws, the NRA will continue to push for the inclusion of strong due process protections. [note: ILA press release’s emphasis not mine]

The requirements of an ERPO process that the NRA could support should include the following:

  • The process should include criminal penalties for those who bring false or frivolous charges.
  • An order should only be granted when a judge makes the determination, by clear and convincing evidence, that the person poses a significant risk of danger to themselves or others.
  • The process should require the judge to make a determination of whether the person meets the state standard for involuntary commitment. Where the standard for involuntary commitment is met, this should be the course of action taken.
  • If an ERPO is granted, the person should receive community-based mental health treatment as a condition of the ERPO.
  • Any ex parte proceeding should include admitting the individual for treatment.
  • A person’s Second Amendment rights should only be temporarily deprived after a hearing before a judge, in which the person has notice of the hearing and is given an opportunity to offer evidence on his or her behalf.
  • There should be a mechanism in place for the return of firearms upon termination of an ERPO, when a person is ordered to relinquish their firearms as a condition of the order.
  • The ERPO process should allow an individual to challenge or terminate the order, with full due process protections in place.
  • The process should allow firearms to be retained by law-abiding third parties, local law enforcement, or a federally licensed firearms dealer when an individual is ordered to relinquish such firearms as a condition of the ERPO. The individual must also have the ability to sell his or her firearms in a reasonable time without violating the order.
Unquote


NRA again talking out of both sides of their mouth like with NFA and GFA .

They state they can " live " with red flag law as long as it has a few thing they want in it.

No matter it violates the 2a and 4a at minimum and the NRA should be opposing any version of it.

The NRA does support red flag. They have just started their mealy mouth middle of the road baloney that got us NFA , GCA , NICS , etc.
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
The NRA supports red flag.

Aye, and their politically middle of the road stance is one of the reasons they're in serious financial straights. That and their gross mismanagement (WAY too much overhead and failure to fully leverage IT to handle most of their tasks).

Still its good to see a few LEOs in the nation are willing to honor their oath even if it costs them personally.

Indeed. More than half of Colorado's Sheriffs routinely side with the Constitution in standing firm against the un-Constitutional edicts of Colorado's General Assembly.

That type of a officer is rare in the extreme.

Hardly. I've met many. If what you said were true, I would barely have met any at all.

If all all LEO would refuse to enforce unconstitutional law there would be no gun control or attempts pass more .

I concur. In fact, that's precisely why we have an oath of office in the first place and that oath is solely to the supreme Law of the Land itself.

NRA again talking out of both sides of their mouth like with NFA and GFA .

They state they can " live " with red flag law as long as it has a few thing they want in it.

No matter it violates the 2a and 4a at minimum and the NRA should be opposing any version of it.

The NRA does support red flag. They have just started their mealy mouth middle of the road baloney that got us NFA , GCA , NICS , etc.

Agreed. Their occasionally anti-Constitutional stance on a number of points is why I never renewed my membership after the first year (1990-1991).
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,453
Location
White Oak Plantation
  • The process should include criminal penalties for those who bring false or frivolous charges. [Felony criminal penalties. Unfortunately, if the false accusation comes from a spouse then the guns are out of the house anyway.]
  • An order should only be granted when a judge makes the determination, by clear and convincing evidence, that the person poses a significant risk of danger to themselves or others. [The NRA supports ex parte.]
  • The process should require the judge to make a determination of whether the person meets the state standard for involuntary commitment. Where the standard for involuntary commitment is met, this should be the course of action taken. [Great, not only will the falsely accused have is rights violated he will be involuntarily committed based on the false accusation...the NRA could support this?]
  • If an ERPO is granted, the person should receive community-based mental health treatment as a condition of the ERPO. [See the preceding.]
  • Any ex parte proceeding should include admitting the individual for treatment. [See the preceding...getting worse.]
  • A person’s Second Amendment rights should only be temporarily deprived after a hearing before a judge, in which the person has notice of the hearing and is given an opportunity to offer evidence on his or her behalf. [The NRA confirms their support for ex parte...getting worser.]
  • There should be a mechanism in place for the return of firearms upon termination of an ERPO, when a person is ordered to relinquish their firearms as a condition of the order. [Sooo..Mr. NRA Man, should the cops just ease on over to the ex-perps house and drop them off, just as when they eased on over to the alleged perp's house to confiscate the guns.]
  • The ERPO process should allow an individual to challenge or terminate the order, with full due process protections in place. [Well, Mr. NRA Man, all these red flag laws have this little gem included already...way to stick your neck out for our rights...NOT!!]
  • The process should allow firearms to be retained by law-abiding third parties [of the alleged perp's choosing], local law enforcement, or a federally licensed firearms dealer when an individual is ordered to relinquish such firearms as a condition of the ERPO. The individual must also have the ability to sell his or her firearms in a reasonable time without violating the order.
The NRA is way on the wrong side of this issue. A catagorical HECK NO!!! should be their only response.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,319
Location
here nc
Shoot the messenger, eh...:geek:

i just presented the NRA-ILA’s official position to end the opinion ambiguity being bantered out here in OCDO land!
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,453
Location
White Oak Plantation
Undirected commentary is not shooting the messenger, specifically...of course, being a scatter shot post, the messenger may catch a piece of shot...unintentionally of course. ;)
 

HP995

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
730
Location
MO, USA
GOA is pushing Second Amendment Sanctuary Ordinances where local LE will not enforce ERPO:

"In all, over 130 counties across the country have declared themselves to be Second Amendment sanctuaries, and over 200 have stated they will not enforce red flag gun confiscation orders. GOA is actively working to get more counties to pass Second Amendment Sanctuary Ordinances. A sample can be viewed here. And we have long encouraged sheriffs to uphold the Constitution and refuse to violate their oaths of office."

 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,266
Location
Kentucky
Aye, and their politically middle of the road stance is one of the reasons they're in serious financial straights. That and their gross mismanagement (WAY too much overhead and failure to fully leverage IT to handle most of their tasks).



Indeed. More than half of Colorado's Sheriffs routinely side with the Constitution in standing firm against the un-Constitutional edicts of Colorado's General Assembly.



Hardly. I've met many. If what you said were true, I would barely have met any at all.



I concur. In fact, that's precisely why we have an oath of office in the first place and that oath is solely to the supreme Law of the Land itself.



Agreed. Their occasionally anti-Constitutional stance on a number of points is why I never renewed my membership after the first year (1990-1991).


So you know many cops who have quit before enforcing unconstitutional law. ?

Can't be a cop a month and not violate the COTUS.
 

HP995

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
730
Location
MO, USA
Can't be a cop a month and not violate the COTUS.

Sad situation. I like to support LE (I have donated financially) but too often power corrupts. Hope we see more praiseworthy LE behavior soon, just like this Colorado sheriff! He's not alone. 👮‍♂️
 
Top