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REFUSING to talk to the police. STUPID.

OC Freedom

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
646
Location
ADA County, ID
I understand a Cop's desire to have potential prisoners talk to them. As I understand the system the large majority of it's success is the ability to get people to plead guilty. In fact I could imagine the system grid-locking if everyone the state imprisoned actually had a full trial first. The system works because we threaten to dish out much more harsh treatment to crooks who actually force the system to prove their guilt rather than them admitting to it.
This whole process begins with getting a potential prisoner talking to a cop and giving him something to go on.
The only reason a cop would talk to you is to see if there is some way to put you in a cage or extort money for the state. That is their job. That is what they do.

If you really believe you have nothing to hide if you've done nothing wrong you are naive. You must also believe no one has been imprisoned for a crime they did not do.

Everything in your posting is 100% correct. The more a person says to the police, the more you will lose.

Remember that 5th amendment is just as important as the 2nd. To qoute those wise words from Hans Schultz "I see nothing! I hear nothing! I know nothing!;)
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
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Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Officer Friendly has a job to do
Officer Friendly is looking to solve a crime
Officer Friendly is looking to put somebody in jail
Officer Friendly is looking for a criminal
and Officer Friendly is Looking At YOU.
 

PistolPackingMomma

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
1,884
Location
SC
Officer Friendly has a job to do
Officer Friendly is looking to solve a crime
Officer Friendly is looking to put somebody in jail
Officer Friendly is looking for a criminal
and Officer Friendly is Looking At YOU.

+1. This can't be posted enough. (Although the second sentence might be amended to "Officer Friendly is looking for someone to fit the crime to". So few seem interested in SOLVING crimes nowadays...)
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
+1. This can't be posted enough. (Although the second sentence might be amended to "Officer Friendly is looking for someone to fit the crime to". So few seem interested in SOLVING crimes nowadays...)

Well, we've got the lyricists. Just need somebody to write the tune, and we'll have a song.

:p:)
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
Keep in mind, its what you say that can be used against you, your silence cannot be used against you...

Silence is golden.

Best regards

CCJ
 

PistolPackingMomma

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
1,884
Location
SC
To go along with the main theme of this thread:

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/d-c-judge-advices-citizens-engage-police/

Judges are starting to give the same advice we do for how to deal with police encounters. If it is so stupid to refuse to talk to police, then why is every defense lawyer in the world, and now judges themselves, saying that we shouldn't talk to police? >.<

One cop hilariously told me that we shouldn't trust our lawyers because they receive money for doing their job.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
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Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Keep in mind, its what you say that can be used against you, your silence cannot be used against you...

Silence is golden.
Very, VERY true, with only one small caveat: There is a case of where a suspect was fully cooperating with the investigation until the questioning began to narrow down to the specifics of the case and the suspect then refused to answer any more questions. At trial his sudden change from being cooperative to being non-cooperative was brought up and allowed to stand. So... if ya gonna talk, talk, but don't suddenly change from being talkative to refusing to talk just when the questions start to get 'interesting'.

Best course of action (as determined by the Court) absolutely, positively, refuse to talk to the police, even in a non-custodial, Tier 1, 'we're all just friends here' encounter.' See Salinas v Texas.
 
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countryclubjoe

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nj
Very, VERY true, with only one small caveat: There is a case of where a suspect was fully cooperating with the investigation until the questioning began to narrow down to the specifics of the case and the suspect then refused to answer any more questions. At trial his sudden change from being cooperative to being non-cooperative was brought up and allowed to stand. So... if ya gonna talk, talk, but don't suddenly change from being talkative to refusing to talk just when the questions start to get 'interesting'.

Best course of action (as determined by the Court) absolutely, positively, refuse to talk to the police, even in a non-custodial, Tier 1, 'we're all just friends here' encounter.' See Salinas v Texas.

Indeed. I am familiar with the case.. That's why one should only give their name and their attorney's name or ask to speak with an attorney... Keep your mouth shut... End of story..

Thank you for sharing the case.

Regards
CCJ
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc

Posted many times, but worth reposting. Talking to cops is like a 98lb weakling volunteering to enter the "cage of death" at a MMA match. It usually doesn't work out too well for the volunteers ... :eek:
 
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Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Very, VERY true, with only one small caveat: There is a case of where a suspect was fully cooperating with the investigation until the questioning began to narrow down to the specifics of the case and the suspect then refused to answer any more questions. At trial his sudden change from being cooperative to being non-cooperative was brought up and allowed to stand. So... if ya gonna talk, talk, but don't suddenly change from being talkative to refusing to talk just when the questions start to get 'interesting'.

Best course of action (as determined by the Court) absolutely, positively, refuse to talk to the police, even in a non-custodial, Tier 1, 'we're all just friends here' encounter.' See Salinas v Texas.

Oh, man. I hate being reminded of that case--it just burns me up. However, it is actually a very important part of the discussion, so it has to be said.

Remember also, the court's rationale included that Salinas did not expressly invoke his right to silence. So, not only do you have to remain silent, you have to expressly invoke the right in order to not have your silence used against you in court:

Petitioner's Fifth Amendment claim fails because he did not expressly invoke the privilege against self-incrimination in response to the officer's question. It has long been settled that the privilege "generally is not self-executing" and that a witness who desires its protection "`must claim it.'"
Salinas v Texas.

Separately, the reason this opinion burns me up is because of the self-serving lie it perpetuates: why the right is not self-executing. This is one of most expensive rights in our history. A lot of people paid dearly to get it for us. The only reason it is not self-executing is because government refused to recognize it as such. Government fought tooth-and-nail against the right to silence, finally yielding only just as much as they thought they had to in order to avoid riots. Nothing but government itself prevented it being self-executing then (16th and 17th century England), and nothing but government prevents it from being self-executing today. Keep that in mind whenever somebody tells you "its a fighting right"; its a fighting right--not self-executing--because government did not and will not fully recognize the right.
 
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XD40sc

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
402
Location
NC
I continue to be amazed at people and their demand that cops show up and check people out for basically nothing. Heard on on the scanner today, "3 youths with baggy pants on the corner of this and that street, caller want them checked out". While the location given is a pretty busy area within the downtown area.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
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Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
I continue to be amazed at people and their demand that cops show up and check people out for basically nothing. Heard on on the scanner today, "3 youths with baggy pants on the corner of this and that street, caller want them checked out". While the location given is a pretty busy area within the downtown area.
You haven't noticed the number of videos where officers will justify their stop and detentions of people with "Well, someone called, that gives us suspicion right there"?
 

Fallschirjmäger

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Cumming, Georgia, USA
I keep asking that on Officer.com and PoliceOne but nobody ever has an answer other than "Suspicious! Gol'darnit, don't you unnerstan' the word?"

"Suspicious car parked at ---"
"Suspicious person walking in public park ----"

No one ever says suspicious of what.
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
Suspicion of what?

Of exercising Rights without governmental permission.
Of not showing enough respect to their "authoritah".
Of being black.*
Of being lawfully armed while black.*

Depends on whether it is a Law Enforcement Officer or Opinion Enforcement Officer.

*I'm referring to the recent Michigan case which saw no action on behalf of self-appointed "black leaders" demanding equality for the gentleman who had his RKBA and other civil Rights egregiously violated under color of law.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...st-DPD-railroading-another-black-open-carrier

The Woody case would also fit the bill:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?128704-Ilijah-Woody-not-guilty-verdict
 
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J_dazzle23

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
643
I've got a good friend that is a law enforcement officer here locally, and in asking him about his shifts, it always amazes both of us that a good one in four of his arrests are people he doesn't even bait, but they incriminate themselves all the time. Down to people starting up conversations WITH him and end up spilling the beans.
 

JoeSparky

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Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,621
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
Keep in mind, its what you say that can be used against you, your silence cannot be used against you...

Silence is golden.

Best regards

CCJ

Actually, there was this one case where the arrested one happily answered all the questions during his interrogation UNTIL the one about his involvement. The court allowed the testimony of his willingness to answer all the fluff questions right up until the ones with meat started and then he invoked his right to silence.

True, it wasn't his Silence but the fact he became silent that was used against him.
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
I, obvioulsy, know OCing is legal, but lets say I dont. If I stop to you and talk to you, And you give me the "Am I detained?" attitude, I inform you no because I have no reasonable suspicion, (Which by the way, is soooooo easy to have), so you walk away. Obviously, I have no power to stop you. However, guess what, i'm going to do it all over again when the next call comes.

If I were your shift commander, I'd put you driving desk for wasting time while real criminals are robbing the store down the street from where you're being all cheezed of at some Law Abiding Citizen (LAC) who wants to avoid your bad breath.

HTH
 

Fallschirjmäger

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Joined
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Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
If I were your shift commander, I'd put you driving desk for wasting time while real criminals are robbing the store down the street from where you're being all cheezed of at some Law Abiding Citizen (LAC) who wants to avoid your bad breath.

HTH

Poor QilvinLEO, he didn't even last a full year with OCDO, apparently we didn't 'respect his authoritah' enough and he went back to Officer.com or Police1.

Some officers in my local area threat/warned me the same way about responding with force every time they received a call from a 'concerned citizen'. I told them that I thought it was completely unfair, they shouldn't be forced to respond to such things without a little warning. I offered to coordinate with them for a meeting the next day if they'd give me a time that would be convenient for them. They thought MWAG calls were great fun and they could roll out with lights flashing.

Eventually they got tired of the games, as one of them said on a forum devoted to a plastic-fantastic pistol, "We know who he is, we have his tag number. We don't even respond anymore."

The good guys can win, it just takes perseverance.
 

Baked on Grease

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
629
Location
Sterling, Va.
Citizen, it also very important to note that they called it a Privilege not a Right... " did not expressly invoke the privilege against self incrimination..."

To me, it sounds like they ate setting up to create the same Right vs Privilege argument they have for the Second Amendment with CC vs OC and such...
 
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