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Secession madness! Now 40 states join petition fray

rushcreek2

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Jun 27, 2010
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909
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Colorado Springs. CO
To those who tend towards deeming secession somehow "illegal", ill-advised, improbable, impractical, impossible, or maybe even suicidal - I ask this.......do you really think the people of these hitherto United States of America are inclined to submit to the imposition of a Marxist-Leninist takeover of our Constitutional Republic ? Perhaps you should think again.
 

Rustykeys

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and we're talking about all the way back to- at least- the 1930's here, not JUST because Obama was re-elected)[/I] left it's original intent in the dust.

Theodore Roosevelt started it but the clincher came with Woodrow Wilson in 1913 with the enactment of the Federal Reserve which is NOT a federal institution rather than a private banking system. It is NOT a Central Banking System.
 

Citizen

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Fairfax Co., VA
Theodore Roosevelt started it but the clincher came with Woodrow Wilson in 1913 with the enactment of the Federal Reserve which is NOT a federal institution rather than a private banking system. It is NOT a Central Banking System.


Welcome to OCDO! I was under the impression that the Federal Reserve was a central bank. Tell me more.
 

JoeSparky

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Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
Couple thoughts about this subject...

First, it ISN'T STATES that are engaging in these various petitions but rather Persons claiming residence status in the various states. A significant difference to me.

Second, as a gun owner/purchaser on the federal form is a query about if one has ever renounced their US Citizenship. It isn't a big leap in my mind to consider signing a petition to secede from the Union as VERY CLOSE to renouncing one's citizenship!
 

We-the-People

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Welcome to OCDO! I was under the impression that the Federal Reserve was a central bank. Tell me more.

The federal reserve is a private bank under a permanent federal charter. It is not a branch of the federal government and acts independently of the federal Treasury department. The following are some selected sections of my personal research into the federal reserve, conducted in 2011. If anyone would like the entire paper, PM me....and wait patiently as I am a full time academic.

The First Bank of the United States, authorized by Congress and signed by George Washington, was Alexander Hamilton's brain child. When Washington's advisors, including Thomas Jefferson advised him that it exceed constitutional authority, Washington called on Hamilton to defend the creation. Hamilton responded with a 15,000 word treatise which convinced Washington and also brought us the "implied powers doctrine". That's what the Congress still uses to justify the level of federal expansion that they have claimed.....Obama Care being the latest of the "commerce clause/implied powers" fiascos perpetrated upon the American people.

The First Banks charter was for 20 years and was NOT renewed. Partially because Hamilton was no longer around to defend it, having died in his duel with Aaron Burr. Then came the War of 1812 which challenged American finances and the Second Bank of the United States was chartered. Again for 20 years and again, the charter was allowed to expire. There was also a political battle in which Nicholas Biddle, head of the Second Bank, took on Andrew Jackson who was running for President and was sure to refuse to renew the banks charter as he was completely opposed to it on constitutional issues.

“Both the constitutionality and the expediency of the law creating this bank are well questioned by a large portion of our fellow citizens, and must be admitted by all that it has failed in the great end of establishing a uniform and sound currency”. Andrew Jackson, President of the United States. (qtd from Todd, 2009, p. 5)​

Jackson won, Biddle lost, and "The Monster of Chestnut Street" as the bank had come to be known lost its charter and ceased operations as a central bank in 1836. Interestingly, the Second Bank lost 1.5 million dollars (remember the date was the early 1800's when that was a LOT) and failed to stop the depression of 1819.....hmmmm about as successful as the current iteration?

The First and Second banks of the United States were true central banks, owned and chartered by the federal government. With the closing of the Second Bank, private banks began sending a "porter" around to the various banks to "settle" the various transactions of the day. The porter would arrive, checks (which began a rapid expansion in 1837) would be exchanged, and the difference either left with the bank or taken away by the porter in specie (gold or silver). "Private Clearing Houses" sprang up, the first in NY City, in the 1850's, in order to "settle" the growing number of transactions in a method more efficient and safe than the porter system. In 1893 and 1907 these clearinghouses actually issued their own money (by issuing small denomination bank checks) to alleviate shortages of "official" currency. These clearing houses were a creation of the free market and while not perfect, they were quite efficient and stabilized the economy to a large degree.

During the panic of 1907 financier J.P. Morgan organized associates and friends to stabilize the economy through lines of credit. Politicians, realizing that relying on the wealthy for the health of the nation’s economy was not a viable solution, passed the Aldrich-Vreeland Act in 1908. Part of the legislation created the National Monetary Commission chaired by Senator Nelson Aldrich. Aldrich. Through this commission Aldrich presented a plan in 1912 that had its roots in the famous 1910 Jekyll Island assembly of financiers and bankers.

The next attempt was the “Glass Bill” named for the politician who headed its development. The Glass bill retained some parts of the Aldrich plan but was very different. One major difference was to place the capital within the system in the regional banks rather than in a central or (main) bank in order to ensure representation of local interests over those of national bankers and politicians. President Wilson favored a central Board and the Glass bill was modified to create authority but not total control over the regional banks.

As in the past, the creation of the bank had major opposition. Senator Robert Owen of the House offered a substitute bill that reduced the number of regional banks and was felt to favor smaller banks. The House and Senate bills passed and their differences worked out in joint committee with President Wilson signing the Federal Reserve Act on December 23, 1913 and twelve regional Reserve Banks opening their doors on November 16, 1914 (Todd, 2009, p. 14).

In 1927 the McFadden Act removed the Federal Reserves twenty-year charter. The Fed had survived the point in its life where the First and Second Banks of the United States had failed, the Fed was now a permanent institution.

Yet another revision of the Fed occurred with the Banking Act of 1935. It gave the Federal Reserve Board received more power over the regional banks, required banks to join the FDIC, and modified the composition of the FOMC to include regional bank personnel. Perhaps most importantly, at least from the view of the Fed itself, was removal of the Secretary of the Treasury and Comptroller of the Currency from their Board positions (Todd, 2009, p 22).

In 1949 the greatest fight between the Fed and Dept of the Treasury began when the Chairman of the Fed announced that open market operations would be conducted with the primary goal of promoting business conditions. The result after much political posturing and bitter infighting was “The Accord”, a joint press release on March 4, 1951 in which the Treasury and Fed reached agreement, or rather compromise, with the Fed came out of the fight with the ability to conduct monetary policy without Treasury approval for the first time since 1934 (Todd, 2009, p. 30).

In today’s post market crash, post housing bubble crisis, even with political pressure on the Fed there is much less controversy between politicians and the Fed than at any time since 1935. However, the growing unpopularity of the government and the Fed with conservative constituents may well reopen the constitutionality argument against central banking in the United States and possibly threaten the existence of the nearly 100 year old institution of the Federal Reserve System.




Davies, P. (2007). The bank that Hamilton built [Electronic version]. Region, 21(3), 10-55. Retrieved January 16, 2011, from http://search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?direct=
true&db= aph&AN= 27200390&site=ehost-live

Davies, P. (2008). The "Monster" of Chestnut Street. Region (10453369), 22(3), 8-46. Retrieved February 1, 2011, from Academic Search Premier.

Gorton, G. (2008). Private clearinghouses and the origins of central banking. Business Review, (Jan/Feb), 3-12. Retrieved March 1, 2011, from http://www.philadelphiafed.org/research-and-data/publications/business-review/

Todd, T. (2009). Balance of power (, pp. 998-999). Kansas City, MO. Federal reserve bank of Kansas City. Retrieved March 1, 2011, from Academic Search Premier.
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
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Location
White City, Oregon, USA
Oh, to reply to the original question of Citizen.....the FED acts like a central bank but is a private bank with federal authority granted to it by Congress. Congress does have some limited control but the FED is a truly independent bank, owned by private banking interests. The Board institutes monetary policy to the best interest of those private bankers. It is only coincidentally that their best interest are served by making monetary policy that is generally good for the government. i.e. the treasury prints IOU's (paper money) and the FED basically launders it for them and makes a bundle for themselves.

As Ron Paul would say....AUDIT THE FED
 

Sig229

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Messages
926
Location
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
To those who tend towards deeming secession somehow "illegal", ill-advised, improbable, impractical, impossible, or maybe even suicidal - I ask this.......do you really think the people of these hitherto United States of America are inclined to submit to the imposition of a Marxist-Leninist takeover of our Constitutional Republic ? Perhaps you should think again.

Im not saying its impossible. I am however saying it would be far more difficult than people realize.
Lets look at one other probability...

If a state did in fact break away from the Union, the federal government would most likely cease all interstate traffic, rail lines and shipping ports going in and out of that state. The federal government can completely take over rail shipping and air traffic control in a state of emergency.

Now, that may not be an issue for states like Florida Texas or other states with coastal water because they could easily skirt around large shipping ports and use private facilities. However, if a land locked state did break way, they would be in an extremely tough spot getting necessary supplies in and out.

Lets not forget, pharmaceuticals, fuel, most food and even coal to make electricity could virtually cease to a halt due to the federal government blockading those ports, highways, airports and rail lines.

Now, if a state was completely self sufficient it would work out okay for the most part. But I , at this time cannot think of any state that has the ability to create its own fuel and power and every other little thing you need to live.

Lets also consider that if a state did break away, most corporations would probably stop doing business within that state due to insurance, tax, currency and liability issues. This would mean an enormous loss of jobs and income for that states residents. Another aspect of it is, US currency would become worthless in that state and would need to be replaced with something trustworthy. How many states have hundreds of billions worth of gold bullion stocked away to balance any money they will need to print? None!

In my opinion, the Federal Overlord type of government we have today makes it damn near impossible for a state to secede and survive all on its own.

Of you truly want to move towards secession, you first need to prepare your state for self reliance at ALL levels. And considering how many Americans dont even have enough food and toilet paper to last them a weekend during a snow storm, I doubt they will be able to prepare a state with millions of like minded people to be self sustainable.

Dont get me wrong,I want to get riled up with the rest of you folks about state secession. But a plan that is half a$$ed from the the start isnt going to work for anyone.
We have to look at the big picture here.
 
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rushcreek2

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
909
Location
Colorado Springs. CO
You brought up some very critical considerations Sig229.

The question still lingers....... submission to a Marxist takeover of the constitutional republic ?

The federal government has already highjacked our U.S. Constitution, and presumes to be the sole judge of the intent and purpose of its provisions.

Now the electorate has chosen a narcistic, presumptive dictator who sees his role as the presiding officer OVER the legislative branch, and reprimander-in-chief of the federal judiciary.

The states have already begun the process of "standing down" - so to speak - in participation with the current administration.

If the federal government of these hitherto United States returns to its proper constitutional reservation - interest in secession will subside.

The fact that the Texas nationalist/independence movement is confronted by enormous obstacles does not negate its necessary purpose which is to restrain, contain, or if all else fails....... to elude the tyrannical grasp of the federal government.

There are even larger, more dangerous geo-political considerations associated with the realities of Texas independence. In the absence of consentual acceptance by the U.S. government serious consideration would have to be given to the potential pitfalls associated with establishing otherwise beneficial alliances that would, or could be viewed as national security threats by the U.S.

The more you explore the unintended consequences, the better option would appear to be attempting the rescue of our dysfunctional federal government by resetting it within its constitutional , and therefore lawful boundaries.
 

ixtow

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Nov 25, 2006
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Suwannee County, FL
...submission to a Marxist takeover of the constitutional republic ?

It may have the same name, but once that happens, and it has, it isn't the the same country anymore. Once the government is so corrupt that you cannot seek redress by petition or the courts, then the government has effectively seceded itself.

Stop obeying. Stop paying. It isn't a valid government anymore. It has removed itself. Be happy. Start some legitimate elections. Ignore the traitors in office.

You don't need to secede. The government already did. It is irrelevant. Re-instate a legitimate constitutional authority and ignore the imposters.
 
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rushcreek2

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Jun 27, 2010
Messages
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Colorado Springs. CO
There will be a Galveston County meet of the Texas Nationalist Movement tomorrow, November 17th at 5 P.M. in League City, Texas .

Location is the Spring Creek BBQ @ 2710 Gulf Freeway South ( IH-45 South)

Featured speaker will be Cary Wise, Executive Director of TNM.

Any Texans, or others interested in learning more about strategies for Texas independence are welcome.
 

david.ross

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May 24, 2008
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Pittsburgh, PA, USA
There will be a Galveston County meet of the Texas Nationalist Movement tomorrow, November 17th at 5 P.M. in League City, Texas .

Location is the Spring Creek BBQ @ 2710 Gulf Freeway South ( IH-45 South)

Featured speaker will be Cary Wise, Executive Director of TNM.

Any Texans, or others interested in learning more about strategies for Texas independence are welcome.

Good, I'm glad they're giving a chance where the feds can document them in the open. I expect everyone there will have their tax returns audited and people will be thoroughly investigated.
 

carsontech

Activist Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Messages
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Location
Anderson, SC
secession.jpg


What has happened that things are coming to this point, where people are filling out petitions, asking for permission, to secede?

"My we, pretty please, secede, oh great and powerful overlords?"

Anyway, I'm all for secession. I think the more nation states there are, the better. I think people would be able to actually vote with their feet more effectively.

If anyone hasn't already, please watch Bill Buppert's speech about secession from this year's Porcfest:

[video=youtube;O28aiatbmuM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O28aiatbmuM[/video]
 
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HvyMtl

Regular Member
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Aug 11, 2010
Messages
271
Location
Tennessee
25,000 signatures out of what population? Millions+ per state? Not a majority in any shape, form, or fashion. Add to the fact several signatures (most in a lot of state's "Secession" petitions) are not from the state the petition is for?

Add to the fact the White House petition system is absolutely non-binding. They do not have to even respond.

So, you are wasting tax payer's money, by signing a petition that has not binding, only to be told off by a low level bureaucrat?

Look, your "candidate" lost, get over it, and find a better one for the next time, or be an even sorer loser in 4 years.
 

Snazuolu

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Oct 3, 2010
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Forest
Good, I'm glad they're giving a chance where the feds can document them in the open. I expect everyone there will have their tax returns audited and people will be thoroughly investigated.

THIS^ is why i dont even bother joining in conversations on here. yall handle this alot better than i would if free speech were allowed here.
 

Citizen

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THIS^ is why i dont even bother joining in conversations on here. yall handle this alot better than i would if free speech were allowed here.

He just forgot that the last clause of the First Amendment protects the right to petition for redress of grievances.
 

david.ross

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He just forgot that the last clause of the First Amendment protects the right to petition for redress of grievances.

Feds have the right to make sure none of the attendees are purposely causing trouble by investigating each and every one of them. You have to remember during protests, there are individuals who will intentionally start trouble, just as secession activists are trying to do.
 

HvyMtl

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Tennessee
How many of the "secessionists" claim to be Patriotic Americans? You cannot be both. Secessionists are the ANTI-Patriot. If you do not like the outcome of ONE VOTE, and want to leave this great nation over this ONE VOTE, then go find some other place to live.

Canada? Nope. No guns. Mexico? Nope. No Guns. And Drug Cartel violence. Argentina? Nope. No Guns. Great Britain? Nope. No Guns. France? Nope. No Guns. Germany? Nope. No Guns. Russia? Nope. No Guns. China? Nope. No Guns.

Ah here you go: Somalia! Plenty of guns and little government. Go there.
 

Citizen

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Feds have the right to make sure none of the attendees are purposely causing trouble by investigating each and every one of them. You have to remember during protests, there are individuals who will intentionally start trouble, just as secession activists are trying to do.

Making trouble for who?

Investigate each and every protester like Stalin did?
 

Citizen

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How many of the "secessionists" claim to be Patriotic Americans? You cannot be both. Secessionists are the ANTI-Patriot. If you do not like the outcome of ONE VOTE, and want to leave this great nation over this ONE VOTE, then go find some other place to live.

Canada? Nope. No guns. Mexico? Nope. No Guns. And Drug Cartel violence. Argentina? Nope. No Guns. Great Britain? Nope. No Guns. France? Nope. No Guns. Germany? Nope. No Guns. Russia? Nope. No Guns. China? Nope. No Guns.

Ah here you go: Somalia! Plenty of guns and little government. Go there.

Who said these petitioners did not like the outcome of one vote? Who said their frustration hasn't developed over the last four to eight years?

This great nation? The nation is not the government. The government is emphatically not our society. You will find German culture in Switzerland, and French culture in Belgium and Holland, etc.

Regarding their patriotism, the American revolutionaries fought for their states. The central government did not come along until 1789, and even then, the Framers were careful to limit it to a point where it had supremacy over individual states on only a few certain matters, or, if they secretly intended a powerful central government that would overshadow the states, they were careful to hide it. Also, as late as 1860, people still regarded their state as their country. A US Army colonel with a good career and future resigned his commission because, in his own words, he could not take up arms against his native country. You may have heard of him. Robert E. Lee from Virginia.
 
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