Man arrested for OC in Colorado Springs park.

rushcreek2 · Aug 9, 2012

jthe88mike said:
Im the guy in the video , they asked me to leave and my partner and I said sure. then i asked for his card and he then refuse and said that i had to give him my ID. I say what laws have I broken and he told me that i had a weapon in a park. i again said no and then he asked another officer if he had his taser ready. then he said he was going to arrest me if i did not give him my ID i started informing him of the law and he told me i was wrong then we got the camera on the phone working. if you any question feel free to ask.

the court date is the 14th at 130

JR & Kiefer

Thank you for the input, and thank you as well for standing up for MY RIGHT to keep and bear arms under Colorado law (Article 2, Section 13 CO Const) - no so much the 2nd Amendment(according to SCOTUS) as Colorado law.

If that's the case - the taser threat was unlawful because you posed no threat to the officers.

Welcome to the Colorado forum also.

GTShooter · Aug 9, 2012

Just wanted to say thank you!

jthe88mike · Aug 9, 2012

PFC HALE said:
the things that come to mind when seeing this i cant speak of because it pisses me of so much that these people wearing a badge and a gun will do as the please using fear and intimidation to coerce their way on a LAC. i will not give them the honor of calling them Law Enforcement Officers.

it almost seems to me they are doing this when saying it will be handled in the courts so they can get revenue by unjustly dropping him into the system to prove himself not guilty.

I look forward to the burn that will come out of this and hope dude can retire from the new wealth!

so i am already retired from the army

JR & Kiefer

DocWalker · Aug 9, 2012

rushcreek2 said:
I viewed the You-Tube video a couple of times, read, and watched the TV news coverage - and slept on all of this over the night. Still searching for my "equilibrium" on this one. My emotions are all over the place concerning this incident.

The LEO's were on highened alert due to :

TWO DAYS AFTER THE AURORA THEATER SHOOTING.

A " GAY PRIDE " EVENT in Acacia Park.

ACLU MOST LIKELY INVOLVED IN THIS CASE BECAUSE OF THE GLAD FACTOR.

This is NOT SIMPLY ANOTHER OC/LEO ENCOUNTER.

Attention has been drawn to OC in a big splash.

I support the Gay individual's right to carry, but not his asserted right to marry.

This incident could result in the City posting NO/OC signs at Acacia Park.

This incident (had it involved one of our regular CO OCDO members) would most likely have been resolved politely, legally, and professionally by all concerned. On the other hand it wouldn't have made the news.

I have always had very good experiences with COS LEO's , including 2 of the officers present on the video. I am concerned that the antagonism being expressed towards these officers is not in the best interest of others who regularly OC in the Springs. I thought the officers initially involved were very restrained, and acted responsibly.

The last arriving officer was not privy to the prior contact back & forth. and probably reacted instinctively to a dispatch that described an " agitated MWAG at the Gay Pride event". He probably should have cooled down his adrenalin surge a bit before presuming to take control of the situation away from the three other officers already at engaged at the scene.

The CSPD administration is the problem - not the officers. They unfortunately demonstrated that the Chief is asleep at the helm - and has been for several years according to the "cheat sheet".

Why are COS officers not required to be knowledgeable of State law ? A "CHEAT SHEET" - for Pete's sake ???????????

We didn't see the beginning of this encounter. From what was stated on the video the OC'er was told to LEAVE THE PARK because he was OC'ing. I attended the Tea Party event in Acacia Park back in 2008/09 and I chose NOT TO OC because of the potentiality for tensions related to antagonists present who engaged in some disruptive side-show activity. I just thought it was prudent to conceal under the circumstances - but that's just me.

I might well OC at a given public gathering. I wouldn't have even been at this one. Not having been present I don't have anyway of judging why this encounter went so badly. I suggest we calm down a bit in attacking the officers involved, and direct our attention to the problem - that being the head of the CSPD - the Chief of Police. A train is only as steady on the tracks as the engine hauling it.

A good time for my signature to appear below perhaps.

I undestand and agree with you on a lot of this but as far as OC or take it to the basics the (2A) why do you give up your Constituional rights?

Do you suspend your freedom of speech (1A) because someone might get offended?

Do you give up your (4A) rights as the folks in the theater that where patted down by the cops for a MWAG call did just so it will be convient for the cops?

I myself try not to pick which of my Constitutional rights I suspend for different events, but to each his own so to speak.

Wolfstanus · Aug 9, 2012

This has wtf written all over it.

rushcreek2 · Aug 9, 2012

I should have slept over this incident at least one more night before commenting, because I guess I never expected a law-abiding citizen to be so deprived of his civil right to carry under colour of law in Colorado Springs. A man who has served this country by putting his life on the line should not be walked over like this as though our constitutions and statutes mean nothing.

I naively thought we had a pretty decent "understanding" with local law enforcement. Now I learn that the CSPD hierarchy apparently doesn't believe its officers have any personal responsibility to be knowledgeable regarding Colorado law which they are sworn to uphold, and enforce. Once again we witness another example of "We ARE THE LAW!- and we'll make it up as we go along based upon our "feelings" on a given day, or location ."

Bellum_Intus · Aug 9, 2012

rushcreek2 said:
I should have slept over this incident at least one more night before commenting, because I guess I never expected a law-abiding citizen to be so deprived of his civil right to carry under colour of law in Colorado Springs. A man who has served this country by putting his life on the line should not be walked over like this as though our constitutions and statutes mean nothing.

I naively thought we had a pretty decent "understanding" with local law enforcement. Now I learn that the CSPD hierarchy apparently doesn't believe its officers have any personal responsibility to be knowledgeable regarding Colorado law which they are sworn to uphold, and enforce. Once again we witness another example of "We ARE THE LAW!- and we'll make it up as we go along based upon our "feelings" on a given day, or location ?

Rush, this shocked me as well, I have never seen the CSPD react in this way, ever.. in almost 10 years of OC ..
I was VERY disappointed with the actions of all the CSPD officers on the scene.. It's sad that they threatened him with a tazer, basically said "ignorance of the law is no excuse" .. So what was his? .. Stomped all over his 2A rights by stating in essence HE DIDN'T care...

All of this .. by senior officers...

Again, I have never seen this response by CSPD ever.. I truly feel the officers involved need some remedial training by their CADETS.. because it was painfully obvious they were oblivious to the law and how to treat a LAC.

--Rob

M-Taliesin · Aug 10, 2012

Bellum_Intus said:
Rush, this shocked me as well, I have never seen the CSPD react in this way, ever.. in almost 10 years of OC ..
I was VERY disappointed with the actions of all the CSPD officers on the scene.. It's sad that they threatened him with a tazer, basically said "ignorance of the law is no excuse" .. So what was his? .. Stomped all over his 2A rights by stating in essence HE DIDN'T care...

All of this .. by senior officers...
--Rob

Howdy Folks!
I gotta agree with Rob!
My stance is that I am generally pro-cop. But these guys abused the man's right to carry. I've asked before, and ask again now:
What was their RAS?
No RAS, no probable cause.
No PC, then leave people alone!
The police, sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of Colorado, did precisely the opposite.
Why? Where is the probable cause? Or even more elementary, what was their RAS to contact him in the first place? What reasonable use of force escalation scale would have them threaten to taser the man? He wasn't giving any cause. He had a legitimate right to dissent from illegal behavior by police officers.

“Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

When a police officer does not know the law, especially a senior officer, and abuse a citizen's rights, as these men did, it doesn't matter whether you or I, or anyone else may denounce their conduct. Their behavior in making an illegal detention (similar to St. John v. Alamagordo) speaks for itself, and they are condemned, not by me, but by their own abuse of power. They didn't know the law! Men wearing badges and sworn to uphold it.... didn't know the law!

That would be every bit as banal as a doctor who doesn't know the difference between the sternocleidomastoid and a dorsal interosseous

The assertion that their 'cheat sheet' had an error in it is a ridiculous excuse for men who ought to know the laws they are sworn to uphold. How can you uphold the law, when you haven't a clue what the law actually is?????

Or, perchance, felt some motivation to ignore the law.

Occum's razor... what is the right answer?

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

OC for ME · Aug 10, 2012

Senior officers need a cheat sheet? So.....who exactly is providing OJT for the nubs? I guess this explains why the nubs get it wrong right out of the gate.

You folks in CO must have some very cryptic firearms laws if the PoPo can't figure them out.

GTShooter · Aug 10, 2012

I wonder if there is something we can do as a community to let these poor escuse of a cop that we are aware of the situation and we do not condone their conduct. I mean we can write all kinds of posts here in the forum but how will that make a difference? Maybe email, do some calls? I dont know if that would be out of line since the case is still open.

DocWalker · Aug 10, 2012

GTShooter said:
I wonder if there is something we can do as a community to let these poor escuse of a cop that we are aware of the situation and we do not condone their conduct. I mean we can write all kinds of posts here in the forum but how will that make a difference? Maybe email, do some calls? I dont know if that would be out of line since the case is still open.

Sorry I had a vision of 20-30 people with signs outside the police department while the press (TV, NEWSPAPER, and others) reported. The signs saying Police corruption, Police don't know their jobs, Police break the law by not knowing it, Police trample peoples rights, Police over agressive.....

All this as the lawsuits start to fly costing the taxpayers millions (the same ones marching). Mean while the police chief FIRES all the cops involved in the incident to save his own butt.

bogidu · Aug 10, 2012

Contacts

Police Chief Carey's email address: pcarey@springsgov.com
Mayor Steve Bach's email address: sbach@springsgov.com
AskCity@SpringsGov.com

Additionally, getting the media involved might provide some traction as well.

A while back I used to have an email address for a CSPD Q&A forum where they followed up with issues/complaints. At the moment I"m unable to find it.

Gunslinger · Aug 10, 2012

rushcreek2 said:
I should have slept over this incident at least one more night before commenting, because I guess I never expected a law-abiding citizen to be so deprived of his civil right to carry under colour of law in Colorado Springs. A man who has served this country by putting his life on the line should not be walked over like this as though our constitutions and statutes mean nothing.

I naively thought we had a pretty decent "understanding" with local law enforcement. Now I learn that the CSPD hierarchy apparently doesn't believe its officers have any personal responsibility to be knowledgeable regarding Colorado law which they are sworn to uphold, and enforce. Once again we witness another example of "We ARE THE LAW!- and we'll make it up as we go along based upon our "feelings" on a given day, or location ."

Glad you saw the light, as your first post was way off mark in this instance. There is no excuse for the conduct of these thugs--and I too know several CS cops and have always had good relations. The Sgts should be busted to patrolman, and the black one fired. Period. And then "now comes the plaintiff" in the lawsuits.

Gunslinger · Aug 10, 2012

OC for ME said:
Senior officers need a cheat sheet? So.....who exactly is providing OJT for the nubs? I guess this explains why the nubs get it wrong right out of the gate.

You folks in CO must have some very cryptic firearms laws if the PoPo can't figure them out.

The laws couldn't be more clear. The moronic thugs who evidently can't read are the problem.

GTShooter · Aug 10, 2012

That sounds interesting, flex our 1A. Id be willing to go participate in a Rally.

Im not very fluent with proper english, but if someone types up a nice Politically correct email I will send it to the emails posted below.

DocWalker said:
Sorry I had a vision of 20-30 people with signs outside the police department while the press (TV, NEWSPAPER, and others) reported. The signs saying Police corruption, Police don't know their jobs, Police break the law by not knowing it, Police trample peoples rights, Police over agressive.....

All this as the lawsuits start to fly costing the taxpayers millions (the same ones marching). Mean while the police chief FIRES all the cops involved in the incident to save his own butt.

DocWalker · Aug 10, 2012

GTShooter said:
but if someone types up a nice Politically correct email I will send it to the emails posted below.

Well I'm out I haven't mastered the whole Politically Correct thing, however I do have a PHD is Sarcasim.

OC for ME · Aug 10, 2012

DocWalker said:
Sorry I had a vision of 20-30 people with signs outside the police department while the press (TV, NEWSPAPER, and others) reported. The signs saying Police corruption, Police don't know their jobs, Police break the law by not knowing it, Police trample peoples rights, Police over agressive..... <snip>

.....then the local scribblers video officers busting 20-30 heads for a non-permitted assembly.

GTShooter · Aug 10, 2012

There are perfectely legal ways to form up a rally and NOT get arrested. Permits can be taken if people are to worried about that. But as long as we are not on private property and we dont block traffic a group would be fine.

rushcreek2 · Aug 10, 2012

Still searching for some " balance" here.

I know that these officers put their lives on the line frequently doing their JOBS of keeping Colorado Springs SAFE.

These same officers may very well find themselves downtown Saturday night dealing with a public disturbance call stemming from one of those 2 A.M "100- plus intoxicated individuals refusing to disburse - WITH SHOTS FIRED" nightclub closing incidents we read about almost every weekend.

So I'm still hanging in their wanting to assign the PRIMARY blame regarding this incident directly where it belongs - on the Chief's shoulders. How in the world can ANY PC send his officers out on the streets with a "CHEAT SHEET" to enforce THE LAWS of the State of Colorado ?????

Are his officers nothing more than " enforcers " employed to keep the citizenry in order - until we figure out on Monday morning what THE LAW actually is ???

We probably witnessed a glimpse of what was to come when this Chief of Police promptly defended the Aurora PD's unlawful assault upon law-abiding citizens after the Wells Fargo incident a month ago.

I don't want to get too far off the track here, but it seems to me that this is just another example of our government institutions running amuck.

When a "meal" doesn't settle on the stomach well - there is always
the potential for a little " acid reflux". When such "meals" begin to be served up on a regular basis "regurgitation" results. Colorado law enforcement might want to tidy up its "kitchen" policies.

An "American Pride" celebration would seem to be in order at Acacia Park to celebrate - among other things -our constitutional right to bear arms in defense of our persons- despite the reluctance of some in our midst to respect that right.

It is way past time for some serious "recalibration" at the Colorado Spring Police Department.

jthe88mike · Aug 10, 2012

***** update ********

http://www.krdo.com/news/Gun-charge...ake/-/417220/16059590/-/12mb2f5z/-/index.html

Man arrested for OC in Colorado Springs park.

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