BREAKING NEWS: At Least 10 Dead, 20 Hurt in Aurora Colorado Shooting Spree

This idiot surrendered very quickly to armed Cops so he may have broken off his attack if he had met resistance. Even a few rounds fired in his direction may have caused him to flee. Running may or may not be a good idea. Taking on someone that has a rifle with a handgun is not a very good plan but a better one than not having any gun at all.

M-Taliesin said:

Howdy!
No, Colorado does not have such a law, but individual venues may post their location as off limits to handguns, etc.
Not that it did anything apart from keeping law abiding citizens from carrying at that location.
It certainly didn't hamper the shooter any.

Meanwhile, this is hardly a time for prosletyzing an ideology.
It is about an unfolding tragedy, and I'd think it only decent to focus on the wounded and the dead, rather than political stumping at this particular time.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

Click to expand...

M-T While I highly respect your urgency in focusing on the victims and their families, all we can really do is continue to pray for all those involved in this horrific event. It would be neglent of us to also point out the political downfall of this event. I have no doubt that upon hearing of this tragedy that the greatest majority of us that use this forum, that our first thought were too the victims. We all know good and well what the LAME stream media is going to focus on, so it is up to us to get the word out as much as possible and as fast as possible that had this not been a gun free zone, and LAC were not discouraged from carrying in this facility, it may have had a different turn out.

Medic1210 said:

Be honest. What good would a gun be to you in this scenario? I'm talking reality here, not some fantasy land where you would somehow magically be unaffected by the deafening noise, dark surroundings, tear gas, and general chaos and panic around you? You honestly think you'd be some hero in this situation? Sorry, but this would be a death sentence for any wannabe hero. This gunman had all advantages stacked in his favor. I know my limitations.

Click to expand...

Medic by looks of it you and I are in the same line of work....how ever it appears we have a very different point of view. All of us contiue to push for our RKBA, ok, why...the most important of reasons is protection of yourself and your family. So if you are such a big supporter, then why would you not use your weapon for that very purpose. I understand your point about the chaos that was taking place, and yes he did have most of the advantage, but one of the advantages he had in his head was that no one in the theater should be armed. It is not beyond thought that had someone returned fire, that may have disoriented him enough for someone to gain ground on him. I can tell you for a fact, that just because you are wearing body armor, you can still get knocked off your feet, and you are going to have the wind knocked out of you. I do not believe that anyone that would have reacted to this situation had on their minds the thought of being a hero, but simply trying to prevent further tragedy.

Someones cell phone video from the theater:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7sIiqq66rk&feature=youtu.be

It's not much. But something.

paramedic said:

I do not believe that anyone that would have reacted to this situation had on their minds the thought of being a hero, but simply trying to prevent further tragedy.

Click to expand...

Howdy Paramedic!
Yes!!!!!!!!!!! That's precisely the point!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

Medic1210 said:

While I may or may not carry in a theatre (illegal in NC), this is a situation that I feel even having a gun wouldn't have helped much. This guy popped tear gas, was wearing a bullet proof vest and a riot helmet as well as a gas mask. What could I honestly have been able to do in this situation? Not a dang thing but hide under the seats and hope he didn't see me. He had all the advantages. Shooting at him with your eyes watering closed from tear gas, in a dark theater would be a death sentence. The noise of gunfire, the darkness, the tear gas would have been so disorienting that you would have no clue he had on a vest or a helmet. If you were actually able to find the shooter and take a shot, you would most likely hit his vest, and he would be able to calmly mow you down. Definitely not a situation I would ever want to be in.

Click to expand...

Getting shot in the chest while wearing a bullet resistant vest can break ribs and cause serious bruising and even internal injury, as a medic I'd expect you to know this. I agree that this situation is one of the very few where an armed citizen is going to be hugely disadvantaged. But the shooter isn't going to just laugh off bullet shots to the chest because he's wearing a vest.

Jack House said:

Getting shot in the chest while wearing a bullet resistant vest can break ribs and cause serious bruising and even internal injury, as a medic I'd expect you to know this. I agree that this situation is one of the very few where an armed citizen is going to be hugely disadvantaged. But the shooter isn't going to just laugh off bullet shots to the chest because he's wearing a vest.

Click to expand...

Good point. In reality though this would have been a difficult scenario for an armed patron to respond to, especially if you're concerned with collateral damage.
A great time to have had a laser sight for sure. Not to mention some serious stones.

I'm thoroughly disgusted about the "no guns" sign on the theater door. Restricted areas vary a lot from state to state. I find it absurd even ridiculous that we're "allowed" to exorcise our right to carry only to have that right restricted at every turn. And many of the very places we're restricted from carrying are the very places with the most likely need to be armed.

Jack House said:

Getting shot in the chest while wearing a bullet resistant vest can break ribs and cause serious bruising and even internal injury, as a medic I'd expect you to know this. I agree that this situation is one of the very few where an armed citizen is going to be hugely disadvantaged. But the shooter isn't going to just laugh off bullet shots to the chest because he's wearing a vest.

Click to expand...

Thank you Jack, that is the point I was trying to make to Medic

Jack House said:

Getting shot in the chest while wearing a bullet resistant vest can break ribs and cause serious bruising and even internal injury, as a medic I'd expect you to know this. I agree that this situation is one of the very few where an armed citizen is going to be hugely disadvantaged. But the shooter isn't going to just laugh off bullet shots to the chest because he's wearing a vest.

Click to expand...

Another good reason to practice the failure drill either a round to the pelvis or head would have made him stop instantly.

word i heard was the people that were leaving were the ones shot at. makes it a stand your ground by default. i dont care what he got, i know what i got, and can do, and for how long.

zack991 said:

Another good reason to practice the failure drill either a round to the pelvis or head would have made him stop instantly.

Click to expand...

And a good reason to allow free trade of armor piercing ammunition.

Felid`Maximus said:

And a good reason to allow free trade of armor piercing ammunition.

Click to expand...

Wont ever happen the US Government does not like its masters to be on par with their ability to defend itself.

McX said:

word i heard was the people that were leaving were the ones shot at. makes it a stand your ground by default. i dont care what he got, i know what i got, and can do, and for how long.

Click to expand...

What would you have done if you were sitting in Theater 9 last night, McX?
What would your approach to the situation have been?
What would your goal have been?

HankT said:

What would you have done if you were sitting in Theater 9 last night, McX?
What would your approach to the situation have been?
What would your goal have been?

Click to expand...

It's easy to pick on people who want to defend themselves, innit? Well the fact of the matter is you're right; he might be full of it. The fact is also that you're wrong; he might be full of it, with the stones to back it up. You know only what you would do, nothing more.

Is there a reason you're running rampant on people who would like to have been there to defend the lives of others?

We can play the what if game and see who is more ballys than the other guy, but unless you have been in combat or as a police officer involved in a shooting you really have no idea how you will react. Yet even people who have been in some form of combat have a better idea than most what to expect or how to react in a firefight but still you just never know. The adrenaline dump is nothing to ignore like a number of people I talk to that have never experienced this effect and if your not ready for it will get you killed faster than you might expect.

A very good read
The adrenaline dump: It's more than just breathing
http://www.policeone.com/training/articles/1271860-The-adrenaline-dump-Its-more-than-just-breathing/

HankT said:

What would you have done if you were sitting in Theater 9 last night, McX?
What would your approach to the situation have been?
What would your goal have been?

Click to expand...

There are too many variables for any one to give a proper answer to what ifs. No matter the training you have things will never go down the way they do in training exercises. No one has the answer until they have actually been through it.

Uh oh

Chief Dan Oates said authorities are "confident" Holmes — who was clad in all black clothing and wore body armor — acted alone and used an AR-15 assault rifle, a shotgun and a .40-caliber handgun in the attack.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/20/deadly-shooting-colorado-movie-theater-dark-knight-rises/

Ugh. An AR-15.

Not good. I just heard a Fox radio report asserting that a total of "71 people were shot." That's a LOT of bullets.


Oates: "We are confident that he acted alone," said Oates, adding that "many, many" rounds were fired.

From "a SEMI-AUTOMATIC GUN" the antis will say. Not good.

Another not good thing: shooter Holmes looks like owning a record of being a clean cut LAC. Before this morning.

This thing is all bad for us.

I keep wondering, how do we prevent these events?

I don't want to see another AWB. But I have a hunch that it is verrry close to happening. And that there is nothing even the NRA can do about it.

HankT said:

Chief Dan Oates said authorities are "confident" Holmes — who was clad in all black clothing and wore body armor — acted alone and used an AR-15 assault rifle, a shotgun and a .40-caliber handgun in the attack.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/20/deadly-shooting-colorado-movie-theater-dark-knight-rises/

Ugh. An AR-15.

Not good. I just heard a Fox radio report asserting that a total of "71 people were shot." That's a LOT of bullets.


Oates: "We are confident that he acted alone," said Oates, adding that "many, many" rounds were fired.

From "a SEMI-AUTOMATIC GUN" the antis will say. Not good.

Another not good thing: shooter Holmes looks like owning a record of being a clean cut LAC. Before this morning.

This thing is all bad for us.

I keep wondering, how do we prevent these events?

I don't want to see another AWB. But I have a hunch that it is verrry close to happening. And that there is nothing even the NRA can do about it.

Click to expand...

All we can do is weather the storm like we have done in the past and put serious pressure on out elected officials to make the punishments very very hard on those that commit such horrible crimes while protecting our rights. I dont see them pushing another ban like before since its political suicide to do so and especially during the election this year. Its going to be tough as always but just be ready to send out mass emails to all elected officials.

Since I don't feel like multi-quoting and responding point by point to the comments directed at me, questioning my thought process, I'll just say, I am very pro RKBA, and pro self defense. That being said, it also appears I'm the only one man enough to admit that I ain't Rambo. Whole lotta arm chair quarterbacking from the mall ninjas who think that they would somehow be impervious to the tear gas, that they would be able to make sense of what was going on when one second you're watching a movie, and the next, you're coughing and can't breathe or see through the cloud of tear gas. That despite all that, you'd actually be able to focus enough to pick out the gunman amongst the panicked crowd running around you trying to flee. That you'd have the wherewithal to crawl through the tear gas cloud and get a clean angle on the gunman during all the screaming and gunfire going on around you, and actually focus your sights on him in the dark, with your eyes closing because of the tear gas. Sorry, but reality can be a hard pill to swallow.

To think this guy didn't expect any armed resistance is crazy. He wore a freakin bullet proof vest and riot helmet. He fully expected someone to shoot back. So, If you wanna call me a wuss for realizing and admitting that scenario was something that would be challenging for a highly trained operative, much less a simple law abiding armed citizen enjoying a movie, then have at it. Enjoy your fantasy where you'd be the guy that saved the day and made national news as the guy who stopped a massacre. Reality leans more to you just ending up in a body bag like the other 14. You can debate it until your blue in the face.

I'd have to say, probably the only way I would have tried to intervene would be if the guy was right beside me with his back turned. Even then I can't honestly say how I would respond, just like none of you mall ninjas can honestly say how you would have responded when the tear gas canister exploded and the gunfire erupted. So yeah, i would very likely hunker down and protect my family, and try my best to be ready if the gunman approaches me. I just pray I'm never in a scenario like this.

Another question... Let's say there were 12 armed citizens there, including all the mall ninjas. How many of you would be able to differentiate the armed citizen from the perp? Remember, the theater is dark, tear gas is affecting your respiratory system and vision, and your ears are ringing from the deafening gunfire. Oh, that's right, you're a mall ninja... You'd instantly recognize the good guys from the bad, and only shoot at the bad guy. Yeah, have a nice time in fantasy land. I'll be here when you decide to return to reality.

Medic1210 said:

To think this guy didn't expect any armed resistance is crazy. He wore a freakin bullet proof vest and riot helmet. He fully expected someone to shoot back.

Click to expand...

I don't think you can assume this is true. The guy is a nut. I am just as likely to believe he put on his mass murderer costume so he would look the part he decided to play.

TFred