Bronson
Regular Member
So exacerbating the situation and possibly baiting him into a confrontation is "fun"?
You know, you don't have to type everything you think. You really are not helping yourself on these forums.
Bronson
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List Your Open Carry Experiences Here
- Thread starter karlmc10
- Start date
So exacerbating the situation and possibly baiting him into a confrontation is "fun"?
You know, you don't have to type everything you think. You really are not helping yourself on these forums.
Bronson
dougwg
Regular Member
Bronson, leave him alone, he like the taste of his foot.
jeremy05
Regular Member
Lol
Glock9mmOldStyle
Campaign Veteran
I have a saying for these type of people it goes: "Misery doesn't love company, it demands it!" You did the next to worst thing you could of to him and that was to not let him bring you down to his level
Once again. well played Sir OT plan ->to OC all over the place today
dougwg
Regular Member
And we have a name for these people....SNOTBUBBLES.
Big Gay Al
Michigan Moderator
Nope, but I might have stared right back at him, with my arms not crossed.
Then of course there's the old stand by line. "Take a picture, it will last longer."dragongtr
Regular Member
Yeah, but the ear plugs had a higher db rating than the muffs that I saw in the store.... :banghead:
Shadow Bear
Michigan Moderator
B
Bikenut
Guest
I have a saying for these type of people it goes: "Misery doesn't love company, it demands it!" You did the next to worst thing you could of to him and that was to not let him bring you down to his level
OT plan ->to OC all over the place today
Someone say pizza?:lol:
Forgive me my friends for I feel a rant coming on...........
It is my opinion.... worth exactly what was paid for it... that all citizens who aggressively confront legal OC'ers are not afraid for if they were they would leave the area.... nor do they think anything illegal is happening or they would call the police. I believe it isn't about the gun but is always about a measuring contest inspired by someone's ego not being able to handle the realization that they cannot control someone who is wearing the obvious symbol of independence that the gun embodies.
I think my signature line says it all..... so I'll post it ...
Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.
And yes, there is a name for those who desire to dominate.... Tyrant. Tyrants come in large sizes in governments and in small sizes when it is a fellow citizen intent on controlling how other people live.. such as the lady in the park knowing OC was legal yet ranting and angry because I wouldn't do what she, in all of her grand self importance, told me to do so the police were called to make me do what she told me to do and when that failed she really went off... and the fellow in the store puffing out his chest to passive/aggressively show he was just as tough as the guy wearing a gun. But large or small... those who wish to dominate and control are simply............ tyrants.
And the thing that angers all tyrants, large or small, to their very core is to be powerless to control someone. Which is why all tyrants want to disarm everyone for those who cannot resist are easy to control.... but those who have the means to resist will resist being controlled.
And so ends yet another unasked for rant.
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DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Well said, Bikenut
Bronson
Regular Member
Open carried to 5/3 bank again yesterday. Ended up withdrawing all my funds and closing my accounts. Here's what happened:
Went in, stood in line with Ms. Ferret for about 10 minutes, my business was conducted, and as I was about to leave, the manager came up and the following ensued as best as I can recall:
Him: "I don't want to argue the *amendment* with you, but you will end up getting yourself in trouble for bringing that in here."
Me: "No, I wont. It's perfectly legal with a concealed pistol license."
Him: "Here's the problem right here, if customers are complaining... You have to watch what you say too. In here while you're carrying." (I had thanked Ms. Ferret for handing me water and had talked about books we're reading and politics (especially voter suppression))
Me: "Good thing I am."
Him: "'Cause if these guys over here are hitting a button then you could get in trouble for attempted robbery at that point." (What the hell?)
Me: "No, I can't because I'm not attempting to rob you, so I can't get in trouble for attempted robbery. And, if you guys want to keep hassling me every time I come in, I'll take all my funds and go to a different bank because it's starting to get on my nerves."
Him: "Really?" (sees his opportunity to never see me again, oops. at least banks are a dime a dozen.)
At this point, the customer service rep, who has been totally friendly this whole time, hands me my money, and I say "You have a nice day," and turn to leave.
The manager then says, "Why don't we do that." ("that" meaning close my accounts)
So we went to his office, and as he was getting my accounts closed and funds withdrawn, we talked a little more.
Him: "The only thing I would suggest is using the drive-through."
Me: "I'm not going to use the drive through just because you're afraid."
Him: "I'm not afraid."
Me: "Well obviously you are because you have an issue with my firearm."
Him: "I didn't want to come to office and wonder if I have to press charges against you."
Me: "You can't."
Him: "For trespassing I can."
Me: "You can, after you ask me to leave, if I don't leave." (which did not happen)
Him: "Right. And that's why, it's like, they came and asked me because other customers had called on you."
Me: "So? It seems to be a problem with the customers. They don't know the laws. You can teach them. You can say, 'Hey, it's fine for him to open carry in here. We don't have a problem with him, and you shouldn't either.' That's what you should tell your customers when they complain."
He didn't have a response to that one. He started talking about my accounts. Afterwards:
Him: "If I have customers and the police are involved, I have to savor the difference here. So I mean, it's not anything that's a fear thing. It's no different than us not being able to have dogs in the bank."
Me: "But you're allowed to have openly carrying customers with concealed pistol licenses in your bank. It's perfectly lawful. I can show you the attorney general opinion saying that it's lawful. If you had a customer come in with something as simple as a backpack, you wouldn't ask them to leave for that."
Him: "We can kick people out for wearing hats if we ask them to remove them."
Me: "Exactly, but you wouldn't because you're courteous to your customers, but you're not being courteous to me. And I've been a customer since I moved here a couple of years ago. Now you guys are saying, 'Hey, guess what. You can't come in here. You can't defend your life. You can't exercise your rights. You can't be a law-abiding citizen in our bank. We don't want you here. That's what you're saying to me."
Him: "No-"
Me: "Yes, that's exactly what you're saying to me!"
Him: "It's not what I'm saying."
Me: "So what are you saying?"
Him: "I don't want the gun in my bank. It's fine. You can come in anytime you want, but-
Me: "I'm not going to come in without being able to defend my life if armed robbers come through the door and start marching everyone to the back to execute us one by one. Do you understand me? So you do what you need to do right now. I need to go find another bank. Just so you know in the future, when law-abiding citizens come into your bank, the guns don't leave their holsters unless somebody's life is in danger. We're all taught very well how to handle our firearms. And it's just outrageous to me that you would treat me in such a way and act as if I'm a threat to your customers. It makes me sad that our country comes to that. "
Him: "It's the customers telling me."
Me: "Well, tell them that it's legal. If somebody complains, 'Hey, this guy over here smells,' are you going to tell that guy to leave or are you going to say, 'Hey, don't stand so close to him.'?"
Him: "It's different with a gun in a bank."
Me: "Well, I'm not waving it around. I'm not brandishing. I'm following the law, and you just have horrible business practices to be making your customers withdraw their funds and go elsewhere."
Him: "To be honest, when the cops showed up here I thought that you weren't gonna come back here."
Me: "They can't do anything. They came to my house, we had a brief conversation, and they left. There's nothing they can do. I'm following the law."
Him: "I didn't even know about it until they came after they filed a report to find out."
Me: "A lot of people call the cops to scare others from carrying and defending their lives, and I'm not going to stop just because a cop had a conversation with me. I'm not going to be caught defenseless one day when my life is in danger. I'm a responsible, law-abiding citizen and I'm just not going to have any of it."
Him: "Here's the thing, I probably have more guns than you do."
Me: "Probably."
Him: "But I have to watch out for what everyone else wants. That's why we can't have dogs in the bank anymore."
Me: "Why?"
Him: "'Cause someone complained. They were complaining."
Ms. Ferret: "Even seeing eye dogs?"
Him: "Seeing eye dogs can come, but they have to make everyone aware a dog is coming in. It's ridiculous."
Me: "It just makes me upset that this is a country where someone complains about somebody doing something that is perfectly lawful and action is taken against them because of a complaint from a citizen who doesn't know the law. I've studied the law day and night for three months now, and I know what my rights are. They don't. And when they come to you and complain about it, if they ever do it again, I really hope you would just say, 'You know what? That's legal,' but obviously it will be with another open carrier and not with me."
He didn't have a response here either.
After I got my money, he kept wanting to suddenly talk about his brother in law enforcement and what guns he has bought from him. I figured, he's either trying to not seem like a bad guy, or he's trying to stall me until the cops arrive. Either way, I bid him a good day and left. No LEO encounter followed.
I am pretty disgusted with the whole situation. Can anyone reccommend an OC friendly bank in the Walker/Standale area?
After this encounter, I went to carry in Meijer to get groceries. No problems, as it should have been 300 feet away in the bank.
Carry on.
P.S. I'm down for a Walker event, I think DrTodd and I can organize something.
Went in, stood in line with Ms. Ferret for about 10 minutes, my business was conducted, and as I was about to leave, the manager came up and the following ensued as best as I can recall:
Him: "I don't want to argue the *amendment* with you, but you will end up getting yourself in trouble for bringing that in here."
Me: "No, I wont. It's perfectly legal with a concealed pistol license."
Him: "Here's the problem right here, if customers are complaining... You have to watch what you say too. In here while you're carrying." (I had thanked Ms. Ferret for handing me water and had talked about books we're reading and politics (especially voter suppression))
Me: "Good thing I am."
Him: "'Cause if these guys over here are hitting a button then you could get in trouble for attempted robbery at that point." (What the hell?)
Me: "No, I can't because I'm not attempting to rob you, so I can't get in trouble for attempted robbery. And, if you guys want to keep hassling me every time I come in, I'll take all my funds and go to a different bank because it's starting to get on my nerves."
Him: "Really?" (sees his opportunity to never see me again, oops. at least banks are a dime a dozen.)
At this point, the customer service rep, who has been totally friendly this whole time, hands me my money, and I say "You have a nice day," and turn to leave.
The manager then says, "Why don't we do that." ("that" meaning close my accounts)
So we went to his office, and as he was getting my accounts closed and funds withdrawn, we talked a little more.
Him: "The only thing I would suggest is using the drive-through."
Me: "I'm not going to use the drive through just because you're afraid."
Him: "I'm not afraid."
Me: "Well obviously you are because you have an issue with my firearm."
Him: "I didn't want to come to office and wonder if I have to press charges against you."
Me: "You can't."
Him: "For trespassing I can."
Me: "You can, after you ask me to leave, if I don't leave." (which did not happen)
Him: "Right. And that's why, it's like, they came and asked me because other customers had called on you."
Me: "So? It seems to be a problem with the customers. They don't know the laws. You can teach them. You can say, 'Hey, it's fine for him to open carry in here. We don't have a problem with him, and you shouldn't either.' That's what you should tell your customers when they complain."
He didn't have a response to that one. He started talking about my accounts. Afterwards:
Him: "If I have customers and the police are involved, I have to savor the difference here. So I mean, it's not anything that's a fear thing. It's no different than us not being able to have dogs in the bank."
Me: "But you're allowed to have openly carrying customers with concealed pistol licenses in your bank. It's perfectly lawful. I can show you the attorney general opinion saying that it's lawful. If you had a customer come in with something as simple as a backpack, you wouldn't ask them to leave for that."
Him: "We can kick people out for wearing hats if we ask them to remove them."
Me: "Exactly, but you wouldn't because you're courteous to your customers, but you're not being courteous to me. And I've been a customer since I moved here a couple of years ago. Now you guys are saying, 'Hey, guess what. You can't come in here. You can't defend your life. You can't exercise your rights. You can't be a law-abiding citizen in our bank. We don't want you here. That's what you're saying to me."
Him: "No-"
Me: "Yes, that's exactly what you're saying to me!"
Him: "It's not what I'm saying."
Me: "So what are you saying?"
Him: "I don't want the gun in my bank. It's fine. You can come in anytime you want, but-
Me: "I'm not going to come in without being able to defend my life if armed robbers come through the door and start marching everyone to the back to execute us one by one. Do you understand me? So you do what you need to do right now. I need to go find another bank. Just so you know in the future, when law-abiding citizens come into your bank, the guns don't leave their holsters unless somebody's life is in danger. We're all taught very well how to handle our firearms. And it's just outrageous to me that you would treat me in such a way and act as if I'm a threat to your customers. It makes me sad that our country comes to that. "
Him: "It's the customers telling me."
Me: "Well, tell them that it's legal. If somebody complains, 'Hey, this guy over here smells,' are you going to tell that guy to leave or are you going to say, 'Hey, don't stand so close to him.'?"
Him: "It's different with a gun in a bank."
Me: "Well, I'm not waving it around. I'm not brandishing. I'm following the law, and you just have horrible business practices to be making your customers withdraw their funds and go elsewhere."
Him: "To be honest, when the cops showed up here I thought that you weren't gonna come back here."
Me: "They can't do anything. They came to my house, we had a brief conversation, and they left. There's nothing they can do. I'm following the law."
Him: "I didn't even know about it until they came after they filed a report to find out."
Me: "A lot of people call the cops to scare others from carrying and defending their lives, and I'm not going to stop just because a cop had a conversation with me. I'm not going to be caught defenseless one day when my life is in danger. I'm a responsible, law-abiding citizen and I'm just not going to have any of it."
Him: "Here's the thing, I probably have more guns than you do."
Me: "Probably."
Him: "But I have to watch out for what everyone else wants. That's why we can't have dogs in the bank anymore."
Me: "Why?"
Him: "'Cause someone complained. They were complaining."
Ms. Ferret: "Even seeing eye dogs?"
Him: "Seeing eye dogs can come, but they have to make everyone aware a dog is coming in. It's ridiculous."
Me: "It just makes me upset that this is a country where someone complains about somebody doing something that is perfectly lawful and action is taken against them because of a complaint from a citizen who doesn't know the law. I've studied the law day and night for three months now, and I know what my rights are. They don't. And when they come to you and complain about it, if they ever do it again, I really hope you would just say, 'You know what? That's legal,' but obviously it will be with another open carrier and not with me."
He didn't have a response here either.
After I got my money, he kept wanting to suddenly talk about his brother in law enforcement and what guns he has bought from him. I figured, he's either trying to not seem like a bad guy, or he's trying to stall me until the cops arrive. Either way, I bid him a good day and left. No LEO encounter followed.
I am pretty disgusted with the whole situation. Can anyone reccommend an OC friendly bank in the Walker/Standale area?
After this encounter, I went to carry in Meijer to get groceries. No problems, as it should have been 300 feet away in the bank.
Carry on.
P.S. I'm down for a Walker event, I think DrTodd and I can organize something.
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B
Bikenut
Guest
Thank you for the highly appreciated compliment.
And, in my not so humble opinion, this is where the concept of 'political correctness' leads us. 'Political correctness' has brought us to a point where "feelings" trump rights and the law. It is a sad thing when all that is necessary for someone to exert control over others is to "feel offended" and whine and complain while watching folks scurry about bending over backwards to fix things so the whiner's "feelings" won't be hurt.
And the truth be told those who complain aren't worried about any legalities or rights... they just want to make you do what they tell you to do just like any child throwing a tantrum. I suspect that our education system has created this problem by instilling the idea that everyone is super "special" entitled to be treated as if they are "special".... and many parents have supported that idea of being "special" because parents also want their child to be "special" so discipline falls by the wayside in fear of damaging the child's fragile ego (but it's really the parent who fears damaging their own fragile ego by realizing their kid is just another selfish little arsehole just like all kids their age).... and I believe it is because of those things that we now have a society composed of a vast number of whiney tantrum throwing 2 year olds walking around in adult bodies selfishly demanding everyone cater to what they want.
Oooops... another rant... sorry.
Outdoorsman
Regular Member
stainless1911
Banned
I like his rants.
Nice job Ferret. *pats on the back*. All too many gun owners wont do the right thing when push comes to shove, like you just did.
Wonder whats going to be running over and over through this bank managers mind if the bank ever gets robbed?
Nice job Ferret. *pats on the back*. All too many gun owners wont do the right thing when push comes to shove, like you just did.
Wonder whats going to be running over and over through this bank managers mind if the bank ever gets robbed?
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Knowing that it is legal, I think the bank could be held liable for a false alarm. I am aware that if they have a certain number, they will be charged. Why doesn't he train staff that an openly carried firearm is something he should welcome instead of interpreting as criminal activity? Does he or his staff push the alarm button when a LEO walks in to do some banking? After the Norway incident, I suspect any armed LEO in uniform is possibly a person impersonating a police officer and is there to shoot innocent bystanders.
I think this is the point he starts to have second thoughts...
Good reply... shows him that you are knowledgeable, and he shows that he is grasping.
Interesting that he felt the need to interject that he didn't call, rather it was "customers". I call BS, he called or got someone else to do it for him.
Trying to again give the message that "customers" are to blame. I find it interesting he uses this as an excuse because in my 4 years on the OCDO website, almost every time a business states this, it was the business that notified police.
Good Question!
So, he acknowledges it is legal. I just wonder if he is aware that he probably has many people with guns in the bank. The problem is that now YOU can't come in the bank with a firearm, yet others can.
Pulling out the "I'm a gun owner too" card. If true, it furthers my belief that gun owners are often our worst critics.
This is utter BS, what do they have to do, call ahead?? I think this would be illegal if true.
I love it when this happens... see, he agrees with you, it's just those pesky "customers" (sarcasm). I don't believe the cops would even bother since you weren't asked to leave and you were there on business.
Yep, they do know it's legal... in fact one of the greeters, whose husband is a deputy, informed the other employees that it is leagl and she liked to see people carrying when I first OC'd there a few years ago.
Yep, definitely.
PS, maybe you should send him this:
"For example, it is the policy of Ohio-based Fifth Third Bank to post signs prohibiting guns in their Ohio branches. Yet we have documented so many armed robberies in Fifth Third branches that one could easily conclude the criminals know exactly where to do to avoid the potential of running into an armed citizen."
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7912
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stainless1911
Banned
Im pretty sure the disabilities act would prevent such discrimination.
Rasher
Regular Member
Ferret, hows about sending some emails up the chain of command at 5/3, emphisizing it was HIM pushing to close your accounts and is this the way customers are treated, if the manager doesnt like something.
stainless1911
Banned
Good call.
B
Bikenut
Guest
You have something many people do not have... a simple, but extremely important, thing called "integrity". You live what you believe in. And I have a great deal of admiration and respect for you.