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They've been asking the wrong question.

user

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,516
Location
Northern Piedmont
For the past couple of years, the thing I keep hearing is that "there has been no evidence of widespread voter fraud", right? But whether or not there was evidence of widespread voter fraud is the wrong question.

First off, no one ever said there was "widespread" fraud - it was local to five or six states, if I recall correctly, and three in pretty bad shape: Arizona, Wisconsin and Georgia. So the issue isn't whether there was widespread fraud, but whether there was just enough in those few states to affect the election.

Secondly, there was no talk of "voter fraud". It wasn't the voters who were defrauding the electoral process, it was Democratic Party operatives.

But most importantly, if the election was carried off legitimately, or with mininal deviations from protocol at worst, there would be evidence of that. The Democratic Party is the proponent of the proposition that Joe Biden was legitimately elected, so it is incumbent upon them to prove that proposition with evidence. It's a matter of who had the most legitimate votes, and that's a positive thing - we should be able to see evidence, a paper trail, and ballots cast in order to justify a result. When someone says he thinks things didn't go right, that's when it's necessary to go through it and prove that it was ok after all. When someone says to produce evidence of "widespread voter fraud", they're asking to prove a negative - i.e., the proposition that ballots were not properly cast. And everyone knows that it is not possible to prove a negative proposition. Moreover, they keep saying that no such evidence to prove the negative was ever presented and approved by a court. Well, duh! That could be because no case ever got to the evidentiary phase, they were all dismissed on technicalities of civil procedure.

And, to follow up on that thought, I have to think that Trump's lawyers missed the boat. Because once the challenge be made, that's all that's required to call the election into question - it is then incumbent upon the proponents thereof to justify the results with evidence of sufficient tabulation of legitimate votes. Thus, the real problem is that there has never been satisfactory evidence that Joe Biden was ever actually elected to be President of the U.S.

Similar thing with Obama - there was a question about his having been born in the U.S. They floated around a tiny picture of a Hawaiian birth certificate from long ago, and said it was his. I enlarged and sharpened the image and found it was for some woman completely unrelated to anything at issue. So neither has there ever been any evidence that Obama was eligible to become President.


Bottom line: There has never been any evidence presented that would prove that Joe Biden was elected to the office of President.
 

JTHunter2

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
420
Location
Planet Earth
Two recent news stories (I no longer have the links) have the arrests of one person in AZ and another in TX with both being charged with multiple counts.
 

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,759
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
I suspect (from sad experience) that, should you look close enough, you will find the largest amount of voter fraud is in the state and local elections, not in the national elections. I can remember, as a boy, watching deputy sheriffs in an unnamed county (also a "dry" county) handing out half-pints of whiskey to those who voted for the incumbent sheriff and certain other politicians.

I've said, for many years now, that Alabama (and they aren't the only state that this is true of) has the best politicians that money can buy. Some of them will even stay bought.😁
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,925
Location
North Carolina
If you don't look for speeders/or DUI, then it will seem that it is not a widespread problem. Same goes for voter fraud, make it difficult to catch, and easy to commit, and somebody will do it whether it is documented or not. The fact is that more votes were counted nationwide than actual registered voters is a good indication that the election was tainted by voter fraud.
 

Scary Guy

New member
Joined
Jun 22, 2022
Messages
14
Location
Detroit, MI
The only time I care about voting is for local elections where third parties actually have a chance. Other than that it's not worth my time.

From an earlier post of mine on another forum "I'm a die hard libertarian and believe freedom is paramount over everything else. Including the freedom not to vote or vote third party. Unfortunately there are two things that make me think voting is useless. 1. We have a first past the post system rather than instant runoff voting. [media]

2. most of the people voting are too dumb to do so properly, going with whatever society tells them without researching the candidates fully listening to whatever soundbites the news has and then going with the "lesser of two evils."[media]https://bradtaylor.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/spider-on-voting1.jpg[/media]"

Looking forward to the next presidential election when I'll likely get screwed yet again. In fact I would bet money on it.

(Oh yeah, can't forget gerrymandering and the electoral college system in general either. What a massive joke.)
 

Doug_Nightmare

Active member
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
694
Location
Washington Island, WISCONSIN. Out in Lake Michigan
The only time I care about voting is for local elections where third parties actually have a chance. Other than that it's not worth my time.


2. most of the people voting are too dumb to do so properly, going with whatever society tells them without researching the candidates

Looking forward to the next presidential election when I'll likely get screwed yet again. In fact I would bet money on it.

(Oh yeah, can't forget gerrymandering and the electoral college system in general either. What a massive joke.)
Hmmm.

Oh yeah, did you forget to mention SCOTUS?
 

Scary Guy

New member
Joined
Jun 22, 2022
Messages
14
Location
Detroit, MI
Hmmm.

Oh yeah, did you forget to mention SCOTUS?
I did, thanks for reminding me. In addition to ******* up the system (see https://apnews.com/article/2022-mid...state-courts-712d5aa719884bab9652d3c132ee56c6 ), we can't even vote for them directly either. Rather we can only vote on the president (which again, doesn't ******* matter) who then selects who they want in it. Then it's a life term that only ends if they step down. If the president doesn't like the current club SCOUTS he can just add more to shift the balance to his liking. I suspect one day it may grow to be larger than the house and the senate combined!

Really it doesn't matter who's in power because either way they're going to abuse it and us in the process. Anything actually to our benefit is either to keep us from rioting or an unintentional mistake.

Don't get me wrong, when many go into office they want to see change for the good. They want to make a difference. But then either they like the smell of the money/power or the rest of the system gets leverage over them and threatens them with it if they don't play ball. They can't win, so by definition we can't win.

 
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