Custom AR-15 for Youth Shooting Sports Raffle

[badkarma]

I have built a custom rifle with donated parts from members of WaGuns. All money will go to Tumwater High School Rifle Team. I know some of us visit this forum often too. Here are some pictures of the build and a link to details on the raffle.
WaGuns Rifle Raffle

 

[color of law]

Forum Rule:
(14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control and lack of trigger guard coverage, we cannot support long gun open carry.

The post is to raise money for a rifle team, not a pistol team.

 

[badkarma]

Forum Rule:
(14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control and lack of trigger guard coverage, we cannot support long gun open carry.

The post is to raise money for a rifle team, not a pistol teem.

This is to support youth shooting sports. Which I think we can all agree, is constantly at risk of losing support. If John feels this should be removed, since it is his site, then I ask that he just simply let me know.

 

[color of law]

I'm just the messenger. It's kind of like if I get caught robbing the bank I promise to give back the money and no harm done.

I didn't make the rules. And yes, John gets to decide. And no, I didn't report it. Good luck.

 

[solus]

WHOA..HOLD ON A MOMENT... TUMWATER RIFLE’s SITE latest photo of their team is 1979? REALLY?

I have built a custom rifle with donated parts from members of WaGuns. All money will go to Tumwater High School Rifle Team.
Snipp...Especially the fotos...

Well Jamie oh wait badkarma, forgive CoL for failing to provide a cite as is the custom on this forum of the rule you are blatantly violating, so...https://xf.opencarry.org/index.php?help/rules/ but to his credit he quoted it properly.

Now as an illustrious site moderator of WAGun, please advise this august membership of your response to any WAGun forum member who posted a thread which very clearly violates your site’s rules; point it out to the member, and the member basically disrespects you by stating ‘they are precious, special, and don’t really give a rat’s derrière’ about your silly forum rules!

Now, this premier, NATIONALLY recognized, open carry handgun forum has a policy regarding LG discussion is prohibited, w/o exception, why do you feel you are special and precious to violate our policies. Especially since you posted last in 2016, once in 2015, three times in 2013, ad nauseam!

Further, how by existing Federal statutes as well as new post WA initiatives are you going to transfer your HAND BUILT kludge?

Finally, don’t you think NRA, DUCKs, and FEDERAL support enough?

 

[color of law]

It actually looks like the latest photo was 2015.

 

[solus]

It actually looks like the latest photo was 2015.

Truly...https://www.tumwater.k12.wa.us/Page/2552
THS Rifle Team 1979

 

[color of law]

https://www.tumwater.k12.wa.us/cms/lib/WA01001561/Centricity/Domain/990/2015%20Team%20w%20NRA%20Check.png

 

[John Pierce]

This is to support youth shooting sports. Which I think we can all agree, is constantly at risk of losing support. If John feels this should be removed, since it is his site, then I ask that he just simply let me know.

That rule is focused on the issues surrounding long gun open carry. But we don't ban mere discussion of rifle events, etc, which many of us engage in and enjoy. Thanks for supporting youth shooting!

 

[solus]

So john, not to be contraire, but when any tom, dick, and harry posts on their own State/Region/local forum in Feb 18 a concept to gather donations for a small town HS rifle team, already sponsored by NRA, Duck, and Federal; so after a year collecting AR parts, AR widgets, and AR what nots; they self built said AR; and in Nov 18 announce this ‘purdy’ LG is now the show piece for a raffle donation.

But wait a sec, on their very own forum this stunt didn’t fly and failed to collect what the snazzy AR is worth...so they didn’t go to the northwest firearm forum which is the latest replacement for backpage and covers their home of the Pacific Northwest, nooooo, nor did they post on the CO, OH, MI, Southwest Firearm Forum -another backpage want-be, or HIGHROAD, etc., nope they come to your Forum John - Open Carry forum soliciting donations - why?

John, notice any details in the OP’s initial post when the give away is, notice any info how said grandiose AR is going to be sent to the winner, especially with WA’s initatives in place, or winner’s State statutory mandates, or how about ATF’s regulatory insistence of 27 C.F.R. § 478.11 ‘manufactured’ firearms [which this is after all a manufactured AR not for personal use by the builder but for distribution as well as built by someone of unknown gunsmithing capability from scrap donated kluged parts]; this coupled with ATF’s guidance of appropriate markings again since this firearm is no longer for the builder’s personal use and is ‘being distributed’ ~ therefore ATF rule 2015-1 becomes germane. Does said ‘builder’ have a manufacturing FFL/

Sorry John, but IMHO, facilitating this will open pandora’s box and have you policing tom, dick and harry’s request for good cause ‘donations’ for handguns/longguns/etc which are simply masked as sales.

Added, sorry i was mistaken, quote from badkarma on 30 Dec 18, quote:..WaGuns is going to raffle off the ability to purchase this custom rifle.

So John, your site is now accepting advertising by members to ‘sell’ firearms...

 

[OC for ME]

Good luck on the raffle...hope you make good money to support the team. Nice rifle. Keep up the good work.

 

[solus]

Yo, badkarma...this started in Feb 18, released advert of raffle in late Nov.

Now on the 10th of Jan 18, you post on the WAGUNS website, quote
Folks, we are about half way to the cost of this build. Thank you all who have donated money or parts or both. I can't thank you enough. ...and I will add a Geissele Trigger if we can get to the cost of the build(or close). Unquote

Query badkarma,
If the 2.2k parts/service are donated, I’m confused by your statement regarding ‘ABOUT’ and previous statements about raffling tickets to determine the ability ‘SELL’ this LG?

Regarding your 10 Jan comment, you mean you won’t put the new trigger into the build, UNLESS’ raffle sales cover the cost of the members donated parts and services?

Could you define your definition of ‘CLOSE?’ I do remember by pappy saying close only counts in horse shoes, tiddlywinks, and hand grenades! So...

Finally, when and where and time of the “shoot” where the infamous drawing is to be accomplished?

 

[O_Kellogg]

Wow! That is impressive!
I think you managed to pick nearly every nit back on Jan 2!

But what impresses me the most: After +9 days with no bite, you did manage to dig out another nit or two.

Well done!

 

[O_Kellogg]

...nope they come to your Forum John - Open Carry forum soliciting donations - why?

Solus. This portion of your post from Jan 2, shows that YOU want to bring this to John, as a personal matter. Your post is implying that John should interpret Badkarma's post as a personal attack. How else could I perceive the above quote?

To posit an answer to the last question (why?), perhaps to increase the amount of money donated to the cause (sounds crazy, I know)
To answer the implied question (why OCDO?), perhaps to increase visibility among firearm enthusi... ohps, sorry, you're right. No enthusiasts here - only OC. My mistake.

Probably should ask why he's posting in the Washington section, as well.

See how silly this all sounds?

 

[solus]

Sorry O, you misread my postings and perceived badkarma’s thread as a personal attack, wasn’t my intent. John was queried about this thread and publicly stated, as forum owner, he will allow this solicitation. I’m providing, buyer beware commentary.

So O, please read babkarm’s initial post...where a normal reader will discern,
1. the uniquely built LG, built from donated parts/services is going to be raffled off to some lucky holder of a raffle ticket!
2. Going to badkarma’s WAGUN site, the reader then finds their raffle ticket ONLY allows the holder the right to “purchase” the LG.
3. Review of WAGUN site doesn’t show on any applicable threads any date for said raffle to be held?
4. Latest posting, states “IF’ the raffle monies get “close” to the estimated cost of said LG built with donated parts and services, babkarma “might” install an upgraded trigger assy?
5. In light of WA 594 &1639 initiatives coupled with Federal statutes detailing a non-licensed manufaturer, such as badkarma, going to “ “distribute” this one of a kind LG, to the whimsical buyer in WA state, or anybody else in the OC viewing area?

To address your final point, one presumes O that you noticed on the WAGUN site badkarma is a site moderator who has the immediate power to delete commentary which he feels is ‘inappropriate’ to his cause célèbre! It is truly not my concern WAGUN members have difficulty seeing through the smoke screen of those enumerated items above, especially #5, but one presumes being adults the membership is aware of the term caveat emptor!

As mentioned previously, i find it interested nothing about the ‘raffle’ hasn’t even been mentioned whatsoever on northwest firearm forum or it’s associate forum southwest firearm forum, yet badkarma went to a handgun OC forum to self-promote this P.T. Barnum type sideshow! Odd don’t ya think O?

PS: O you have, of course, contacted badkarma and purchased your share of raffle tickets, haven’t you?

 

[BobR]

And this type of public BS is why I have quit coming to what was once a great sub-Forum on an exceptional site. Now that every "Tom, Dick and Harry" that is either interested or not has had a chance to see this and form their own opinions I guess the time for taking it to PM is past.

bob

 

[solus]

And this type of public BS is why I have quit coming to what was once a great sub-Forum on an exceptional site. Now that every "Tom, Dick and Harry" that is either interested or not has had a chance to see this and form their own opinions I guess the time for taking it to PM is past.

bob

BobR, “why you quit coming...” ?
Let’s review BobR, you posted once in 2015 about a donut gathering; you posted once in 2016 regard archived ‘training material”; you didn’t post in 2014; and three posts in 2013; during that intervening time the late Grapeshot advocated and promoted ALL members of this illustrious National OC could post relevant commentary in any sub-forum.

BobR you did notice the term i used was...’relevant’ verses your use of the term BS?

[sidebar, BobR, did you buy your raffle tickets for a drawing on an unknown date, so you can buy the LG with unk legality to be distributed to citizens?]

 

[BobR]

Wow, you got me there. Are you the defacto board monitor now, at least in your own mind?

I see you started coming here in 2013 and are quite the prolific poster. Good for you.

I stopped coming here before you even came onto the scene so your history and mine are quite different. I come here 2x a year to participate in a very specific thread, the WA state OC campout. While here I will look at other WA state posts to see how things are, which are usually pretty good because we fought the fight and won. Now it looks as though the fight in WA will be starting anew so I was considering becoming more active again, but I see you have that covered for a lot of areas so I will spend my limited time for internet interaction to more appealing subjects.

Did I buy a raffle ticket? No. I have no desire for an AR platform rifle built by someone I know nothing about, my preference. I figure the money and time I provide to the Friends of the NRA will cover me for many shooting clubs. If I give directly it is to local Youth Groups because they are the people I know.

bob

 

[solus]

Wow, you got me there. Are you the defacto board monitor now, at least in your own mind?

I see you started coming here in 2013 and are quite the prolific poster. Good for you.

I stopped coming here before you even came onto the scene so your history and mine are quite different. I come here 2x a year to participate in a very specific thread, the WA state OC campout. While here I will look at other WA state posts to see how things are, which are usually pretty good because we fought the fight and won. Now it looks as though the fight in WA will be starting anew so I was considering becoming more active again, but I see you have that covered for a lot of areas so I will spend my limited time for internet interaction to more appealing subjects.

Did I buy a raffle ticket? No. I have no desire for an AR platform rifle built by someone I know nothing about, my preference. I figure the money and time I provide to the Friends of the NRA will cover me for many shooting clubs. If I give directly it is to local Youth Groups because they are the people I know.

bob

Defacto, sorry BobR, I did not step out of the mist w/maybe six (6) posts in the last five years criticizing members posting as BS.

Further BobR, your statement above about, “...we fought the fight and won.” So you perceive Washingtonians “fought” and “won” with passage of citizen initiatives 594 & 1639, really?

However, you are correct about advocacy issues need adressing in the coming year, but seems you didn’t feel those posts worthy for your limited internet browsing, Oh lookie there is a member, not named, tom, dick, but named “SOLUS” who started a thread posted that Jan 18th is a gathering in OLY for WA citizens to meet for firearm advocacy...going?

Oh BTW, were you in attendance at the ‘14 Spokane 594 rally in front of courthouse, if not you missed a great time...and the sideshow...

 

[solus]

Congradulations go out to owen kellogg, Yakima WA who won the great handmade AR platform raffle benefiting the tumwater rifle club...

[i am quite sure all provisions of WA and federal transfer mandates which cover a singular manufactured LG by someone, probably unlicensed smithy, sold, er given, no sold since tickets sold, ya would actually love to hear ATF’s perspective on that transfer transaction as well as the Sheriffs.]