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WA state sheriff deputy "We have a lot of Constitutionalists" to justify MRAP use.

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
Sometimes it's fun as I'm walking by with my cup of fresh coffee to say, "Nice Kimber" and watch your body language as the paranoia kicks in.

What's the fun part? Intentionally causing discomfort in someone you suspect to be "paranoid" of cops? How unexpectedly sadistic. I would say a little concern at receiving attention from any cop in light of recent LE actions across the nation is healthy indeed.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Why is talking about my "Kimber" (ew) supposed to make me feel paranoid?

Or is the constant "paranoid" refrain just a convenient way to paint his opponents in a harmless debate as pathological? That says more about his mental and emotional limitations than it does anybody else's.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
....

Verbosity, of itself, should be no more offensive to anyone than would be bumper sticker sniping drive bys. This is a discussion board, not a twitter account. Discussions among mature adults happen in more than 144 characters at a time. So some--who complain about brain-dead, ignorant sheep--might consider putting down their phones and getting a real monitor and keyboard to see if they can actually engage in thoughtful discussion.

...

Charles
Personally, I like verbosity. I salute those who are verbose. If I were to wear my cheaters when typing, and actually pay attention to what I type, more regularly, my verbosity would likely be more affectionately received.

Anyway, StanSwitek is expressing valid points, yet I am left lacking in the specifics to support his position. He has no obligation to provide specifics by the way.

StanSwitek certainly indicates to me that he is a staunch supporter of our RKBA and this I will not question.

Again, welcome StanSwitek. Please return at your pleasure and engage us as you see fit Sir.
 

The Truth

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Henrico
Not your place to dictate to me on this matter.

As far as I can tell, you were not a part of the original conversation, so for you to apologize on anyone's behalf but yourself is beyond your authority and such facts are the basis for my comment to you. It is most definitely my place to dictate that your apology is not on my behalf, since I was actually involved in the discourse. You are not a moderator.


In the first place, I recognize the difference between a focal, disaffected minority, and an actual majority.

Secondly, for you to make an appeal to majority is truly ironic and funny.

Almost every one of your posts, especially in retort to anything certain members have to say, contains some sort of personal snipe and I'm honestly sick of it going un-self-moderated. In one post you'll blab on for 1,000 words about respect, rights, or religion and then a post or two later, or sometimes in the very same post you will condescend or insult for no good reason. I can start calling you out every single time if you'd like, but I have no interest since you've not been very receptive when others do it.



Verbosity, of itself, should be no more offensive to anyone than would be bumper sticker sniping drive bys. This is a discussion board, not a twitter account. Discussions among mature adults happen in more than 144 characters at a time. So some--who complain about brain-dead, ignorant sheep--might consider putting down their phones and getting a real monitor and keyboard to see if they can actually engage in thoughtful discussion.

You are not verbose. You are wordy. Typically when I think of someone who is verbose, they are at least artistic or innovative with words. You just use a lot of them.

And pretty pathetic that I can out credential anyone half as vocal and cocksure as you seem to be. I feel like I don't do nearly what I should to effect as much change, as quickly as I'd like to see it. But with a job, a family to raise, a marriage to foster, church responsibilities, etc, there is only so much time to carve out for politics. Anyone being out done much by my pathetic efforts really might consider on what they are really doing to help.

Charles
See, I can always count on a personal snipe from you! ...and in response to my saying that I respect what you have done for your state, no less. This pretty much sums up the personification you exude here. I'm not even going to dignify your posturing with a legitimate response because those that know me know what I do. I don't need to hop on OCDO and list my accolades to make myself feel better for being a curmudgeon.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
wordy: using or containing many and usually too many

verbose: containing more words than necessary : wordy

I am verbose and wordy, I have even been accused of being garrulous: given to prosy, rambling, or tedious loquacity : pointlessly or annoyingly talkative...

Pithy is nice, but virtual ink is free-ish... and I just can't help myself. ;)
 

The Truth

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Henrico
wordy: using or containing many and usually too many

verbose: containing more words than necessary : wordy

I am verbose and wordy, I have even been accused of being garrulous: given to prosy, rambling, or tedious loquacity : pointlessly or annoyingly talkative...

Pithy is nice, but virtual ink is free-ish... and I just can't help myself. ;)

Numerous are the connotations any one adjective may cause a mind to conjure.

:p
 
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HPmatt

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
1,468
Location
Dallas
So the topic of this thread - and some of the pertinent posts - I would think a civilian armored car w/b much cheaper than a MRP. If you get it free from Federal taxpayers you would just consider operating and repair costs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
As far as I can tell, you were not a part of the original conversation,

I'm part of the community that is this forum and have been for over 8 years. I'm disgusted and dismayed by the current, low level of discourse. Previously, this has been a very useful site for exchanging information and for improving our debating points by being able to explore subjects among a friendly crowd. Someone would play devil's advocate or just look to tease out some nuance and some good debate would ensue. We currently have 4 or 5 folks who think it their job to shout down anyone who expresses any view that parts company with them at all.

So yes, I'll feel free to apologize to new guys when a few jerks think it is their place to "break them in".


Almost every one of your posts, especially in retort to anything certain members have to say, contains some sort of personal snipe and I'm honestly sick of it going un-self-moderated. In one post you'll blab on for 1,000 words about respect, rights, or religion and then a post or two later, or sometimes in the very same post you will condescend or insult for no good reason. I can start calling you out every single time if you'd like, but I have no interest since you've not been very receptive when others do it.

When you call out every use of "statist", "slaver", or "religious state worshiper" tucked into some 5 word drive by snipe as you do my comments, I'll give you some credence.

You are not verbose. You are wordy. Typically when I think of someone who is verbose, they are at least artistic or innovative with words. You just use a lot of them.

And I find your style immature and offensive. So I guess we are even.

See, I can always count on a personal snipe from you! ...and in response to my saying that I respect what you have done for your state, no less.

Your "respect" amounted to damning with faint praise. I returned the favor. Get over it.

I'd like a higher level of dialogue here than a few of you are imposing. I won't give the first offense. But I won't roll over when some of you decide that mis-representing my position, calling me what are to you the most ugly names you can conceive, and sniping rather than discussing is how you are going to respond to every disagreement or difference of viewpoint, no matter how minor or off topic.

Charles
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Welcome to the forum. Grow a thick skin, you are going to need it especially when you make unsubstantiated claims.

Let me just say that in my experience most of the people I knew in my thirty year law enforcement career would not agree with the comments of the deputy quoted in the original post. In fact they would likely want to slap the guy for saying something so stupid. First of all, local law enforcement officers (municipal, county and state) are not fond of most of the BS coming out or DC these days. Your local law enforcement officers would never participate in any kind of federally mandated gun confiscation for those in lawful possession of a firearm. I have numerous personal friends who are chief's and they absolutely oppose anything of that nature.

As far as MRAP's, any claims that departments are obtaining them due to "fears of armed constitutionals" are pure BS. Armored vehicles have been in use by law enforcement for over 50 years. They are a public safety tool to be used against armed criminals who are engaging in crimes like school shootings and robberies with hostages just to name a few. With the rising threat to our country by radical Islamist's it is even more important that law enforcement be prepared. An armored vehicle is just one of many tools law enforcement is making use of. Any claims of conspiracy theories that law enforcement is planning on using such tools to "oppress" they public is complete nonsense.

I know a lot of law enforcement professionals. None of them including my self have a problem with people exercising their second amendment rights.

Great, to hear but the reality is less true. Under a Republican president guns were consficated in Katrina. Recently MRAP's were used to run havoc over civil rights in Boston, I will gladly post the picture yet again if you want.

IF my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle. That will NEVER happen. Any attempt to enforce that would result in civil war. No one I know in state county or municipal law enforcement would support or comply with that.

It may or it may not, but no civil war broke out after Katrina. No civil war broke out at Waco. People stood up against the feds at Bundy , they are getting fed up with the state. So as to lessen a chance of civil war the state and its costumed enforcers willing to enforce unconstional laws, because hey SCOTUS said its ok or I don't think (Blank) should have guns, the state does it incrementally.

It's funny that the Constitution doesn't actually provide the SCOTUS unilateral (or, for that matter, any at all) authority to "interpret" the Constitution. That may be "the way things work", but when the SCOTUS decides contrary to the clear language of the Constitution (as they have done, and will do again) then they no longer deserve the moral or legal high ground which you so readily afford them.

+1

The simple fact is that the upkeep for these toys is provided for by assert forfeiture and other forms of illegitimate profiteering. I furthermore challenge the thread's resident apologist to provide a single instance of these "tools" actually being used to rescue hostages, or any other of the absurd fantasy scenarios he has conjured to his defense.

I have looked for this and challanged a local municipality with the same question, they have yet to cite one. They just keep making the "officer safety" claim, and its "Free" something we all know it isn't.

Stan I just noticed I forgot to thank you for your service as a LEO !!!!

Do you thank all the roofers? Bank tellers? Kids working McDonalds? Why single out the service of someone from the non productive tax feeding part of "service".
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Even though this was a Washington state deputy.

Idaho isn't exactly a beacon of awesomeness when it comes to LEA's and those working for them.

William N. Grigg has done many a blogs and articles about the problems with cops in Idaho.
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
Okay then, where do you work?
It must be one heck of a drive if it's not in the Treasure Valley.

What game is he playing? Does the department have so few employees that it would be giveaway to your identity? If not I see no game at all.

I find it hilarious that those who use nom de plumes themselves are asking someone else to reveal details of his identity.

When you boys start signing your real names to your posts, you'll have some moral high ground from which to ask others their real identities.

And for the record, I'm as concerned about local police having military vehicles or using military tactics as anyone else. But I'd rather hear the perspective from those who believe there is a need for them than try to shout them to silence. What benefit does that gain me?

Charles
 
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marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
And for the record, I'm as concerned about local police having military vehicles or using military tactics as anyone else. But I'd rather hear the perspective from those who believe there is a need for them than try to shout them to silence. What benefit does that gain me?

Indeed. And, on that note, I'm still waiting for any references at all for elite tactical hostage situation resolution.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
I find it hilarious that those who use nom de plumes themselves are asking someone else to reveal details of his identity.

When you boys start signing your real names to your posts, you'll have some moral high ground from which to ask others their real identities.

And for the record, I'm as concerned about local police having military vehicles or using military tactics as anyone else. But I'd rather hear the perspective from those who believe there is a need for them than try to shout them to silence. What benefit does that gain me?

Charles

Not one person asked him to reveal his identity, making claims that members did is a lie.
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
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Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
Not one person asked him to reveal his identity, making claims that members did is a lie.

It is my opinion that two of you asked him to reveal sufficient details of his work life as to make discovery his identity easy in many cases. It is my opinion that the purpose for doing so was in fact to discover his identity.

I will ask you both straight up if you had any intent to have his identity revealed or easier to discover when you posted what you did on the topic?

And for the record, I believe that ANY communication intended or calculated to leave a false impression is rightly characterized as a lie.

Charles
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
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Messages
4,061
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Utah
Indeed. And, on that note, I'm still waiting for any references at all for elite tactical hostage situation resolution.

Why wait. If there were any significant numbers of such cases, you'd already know about them.

So what is your intent? To force him to admit his view is wrong? Something about a man convinced against his will being of the same opinion comes to mind.

Trying to convince others of your viewpoint? Who is there to convince here?

You've demanded cites you knew weren't there. You and some others browbeat until he isn't likely to re-engage on the subject. What have you gained in terms of any real understanding of his views, or how his department uses their vehicle?

Was the exchange at all productive to you or your efforts to advance RKBA or even freedom generally?

If so, how? If not, what might you do differently next time?

Charles
 

SovereigntyOrDeath

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
411
Location
Coeur D Alene, Idaho
If the Supreme Court of the United States upholds the constitutionality of a law, that's as legal as it gets. That is their job. To interpret the constitution. While I may not personally agree with every decision they make, that is the way things work in the USA.

Welcome aboard the roller coaster. Thank you for protecting, serving & upholding your oath to defend the Constitution of both the USA and your state.

To your post: Unfortunately things don't work in this great country as the founders had envisioned. The Founders never gave or wanted the power to interpret the Constitution in the hands of SCOTUS. The practice is called Judicial Review. It started with Marbury vs Madison and Chief Justice John Marshall.

Thomas Jefferson's Letter to A. Coray, October 31, 1823:

At the establishment of our constitutions, the judiciary bodies were supposed to be the most helpless and harmless members of the government. Experience, however, soon showed in what way they were to become the most dangerous; that the insufficiency of the means provided for their removal gave them a freehold and irresponsibility in office; that their decisions, seeming to concern individual suitors only, pass silent and unheeded by the public at large; that these decisions, nevertheless, become law by precedent, sapping, by little and little, the foundations of the constitution, and working its change by construction, before any one has perceived that that invisible and helpless worm has been busily employed in consuming its substance. In truth, man is not made to be trusted for life if secured against all liability to account.”

a quote from Abraham Lincoln’s first inaugural address:

“…The candid citizen must confess that if the policy of the government, upon vital questions, affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court, the instant they are made, in ordinary litigation between parties, in personal actions, the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having, to that extent, practically resigned their government into the hands of that eminent tribunal.”

Another quote from Abraham Lincoln

"We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts — not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution."

A quote from a sitting Justice:

"Day by day, case by case, the court is busy redesigning a Constitution for a nation I do not recognize."

Justice Antonin Scalia

You can read all about it here:

http://constitutionality.us/index.html

The biggest concern, in my opinion, is the militarization of local law enforcement and the attitudes of misguided leo's that forget or don't understand their oath. Their has also been an issue with labeling those who would call themselves Constitutionalists and Sovereign Citizens as "extremists" or "radicals". Those 2 nomenclatures should be worn proudly by every freedom loving, United States of America loving, individuals.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Why wait. If there were any significant numbers of such cases, you'd already know about them.

So what is your intent? To force him to admit his view is wrong? Something about a man convinced against his will being of the same opinion comes to mind.

Trying to convince others of your viewpoint? Who is there to convince here?

You've demanded cites you knew weren't there. You and some others browbeat until he isn't likely to re-engage on the subject. What have you gained in terms of any real understanding of his views, or how his department uses their vehicle?

Was the exchange at all productive to you or your efforts to advance RKBA or even freedom generally?

If so, how? If not, what might you do differently next time?

Charles

Dialectic 101?

But seriously, what's the point of any discussion at all in the context of internet fora?
 
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The Truth

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Henrico
I'm part of the community that is this forum and have been for over 8 years. I'm disgusted and dismayed by the current, low level of discourse. Previously, this has been a very useful site for exchanging information and for improving our debating points by being able to explore subjects among a friendly crowd. Someone would play devil's advocate or just look to tease out some nuance and some good debate would ensue. We currently have 4 or 5 folks who think it their job to shout down anyone who expresses any view that parts company with them at all.

So yes, I'll feel free to apologize to new guys when a few jerks think it is their place to "break them in".

I understand your wanting to have your voice heard. It is heard. You have made me think about many things. Yes, me. The one who is "arguing with you needlessly on the internet."

It is I, the pathetic one. The one who is not doing enough in my community. It doesn't matter what I do in reality, you are correct. It is not enough.




When you call out every use of "statist", "slaver", or "religious state worshiper" tucked into some 5 word drive by snipe as you do my comments, I'll give you some credence.

Again, you are correct. My personal views get in the way of the true message. I am working on the focal point of my thoughts.



And I find your style immature and offensive. So I guess we are even.

We will never be even. The Truth shall always prevail :)


Your "respect" amounted to damning with faint praise. I returned the favor. Get over it.

This I have qualms with. My respect for you is inarguable. Although we argue semantics, I highly value the commonalities we share. I would gladly stand with you in duress.

I'd like a higher level of dialogue here than a few of you are imposing. I won't give the first offense. But I won't roll over when some of you decide that mis-representing my position, calling me what are to you the most ugly names you can conceive, and sniping rather than discussing is how you are going to respond to every disagreement or difference of viewpoint, no matter how minor or off topic.

Charles

Perhaps you have misrepresented your own feelings unbeknownst to yourself. My goal here and in life is to be where I am and talk about it. All I know is what I'm told or what I observe.
 
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