DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Not much. SCOTUS and state supreme courts usually allow the police broad discretion under the notion of "officer safety".
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
LEOs Unlawfully Confiscate Your Pistol: What Would You Do?
- Thread starter cmdr_iceman71
- Start date
cmdr_iceman71
Regular Member
+ 1
Thanks DrTodd I knew there was a good reason why I had struck such an idea out of my head long ago. But that's the problem with reading so many different statutes from other States, is that they sometimes get all jumbled in my head.
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Especially when a holster could be said to "obliterate" something.
ob·lit·er·ate /əˈblitəˌrāt/Verb: 1. Destroy utterly; wipe out. 2. Cause to become invisible or indistinct; blot out.
scot623
Regular Member
On advice of counsel called from the scene, I(we) provided ID to get our firearms back. Since we already had our rights violated, allowing the PD to keep the guns(by not providing ID) would serve no additional purpose. It was not my goal to sue them, so I did not.
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Probably the best course of action. I usually opt to state my objections but, after that, to NOT argue my case in the street. Besides the fact that once an officer decides upon a course of action there is little that can be gained by arguing, a person could garner an additional charge of "obstruction" if their protestations are deemed excessive. I've personally witnessed GRPD doing this and I'm sure other Michigan PDs do it too.
Last edited:
rvd4now
Regular Member
leos have to much power.. thats sad
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Tell me about it. In preparation for a visit to CA a few years back I read and memorized CA's gun laws. Upon arrival in LA with my firearm, I proceeded to OC... but I made a mistake that could have been very bad. After a few days of being OC, I realized my error and modified my behavior accordingly. I was lucky. I still have their crappy laws running through my head, though. That's why we need all- state reciprocity as soon as possible.
Last edited:
stainless1911
Banned
loaded huh?.
stainless1911
Banned
I believe the presumption of innocense is a myth.
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
As a person with "governmental authority", I understand it though. As a special ed teacher, I tell MY students to follow the directives of other teachers and THEN afterwards come and talk to me about it and perhaps we can discuss it with the teacher or administration. I'm not trying to defend any officer's behavior, but to argue turns what could be a quick transaction into a competition. Assert your understanding of your rights under the law, have a recorder going, but DO NOT RESIST. Then if you feel you've been wronged, use the proper channels to fight it. I've personally been able to get out of two traffic violation tickets because the officers who wrote the IMPROPER tickets made no notes regarding the stop. They did this because my interaction with them was unremarkable from start to finish. When I showed up to the hearings, I had complete notes with a transcript of the interactions. Also note, there is a certain feeling that comes when an officer has to explain themselves in front of a magistrate and they can't even recall the stop. :lol: Btw, they learn who you are very quickly, too.
Last edited:
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
It is when an officer takes note because there exists an assumption among the courts that an officer HAS RAS by default unless you can prove otherwise. Sad, but it is the current reality. That's why I avoid any interaction with the police that I possibly can. They are not my friends, and they are not there to discover "truth". They see their job as putting away the lawbreakers, pure and simple. It is best not to even give them the chance to label us as such.
DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE!!
stainless1911
Banned
True.
When I got my CPL suspended a couple years ago, I got a notice of suspension in the mail long before any sentence was passed. A punishment without due process or conviction. Hence, guilty until proven innocent. Not to mention unconstitutional via the 2nd and 5th amendments.
When I got my CPL suspended a couple years ago, I got a notice of suspension in the mail long before any sentence was passed. A punishment without due process or conviction. Hence, guilty until proven innocent. Not to mention unconstitutional via the 2nd and 5th amendments.
stainless1911
Banned
Sometimes its best to talk to the police. When they know already, and you stonewall them, you're not going to get a break, or a plea deal, they are going to throw the book at you.
Last edited:
Glock9mmOldStyle
Campaign Veteran
I disagree - If They 'think' they are doing their job by violating your rights you need to do yours and defend them as vigorously as possible while not giving them anything to twist, bend, or misstate against you.
[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc[/video]
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Like everything else, there are always exceptions... also why I said to state your objection and, after you've said it, it is often best to not say anything else.
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
If I'm stopped for merely OCing, I know that they have already decided to screw with me. Look through some of the encounters here and on You tube and note how many times a calm and rational OCer is told to calm down. It's usually the cops who are all stoked up.
Last edited:
stainless1911
Banned
What if its something non OC, like doing donuts in a snowy parking lot. If the cop sees you, and you stonewall him, hes going to give you a reckless driving. If you talk to him, he might give you a careless, or let you plea the reckless down in court later.
No, I wasnt doing donuts in a parking lot in the snow.
No, I wasnt doing donuts in a parking lot in the snow.
TheQ
Regular Member
Did you file a complaint? If so, what was the disposition?
TheQ
Regular Member
You should send the copy of the recording to MCOLES (who pays the insurance for these guys, yes? If not MCOLES -- whoever they are insured through). I'm sure they'd be happy to know the local PD's attitude about being sued. Do it
Glock9mmOldStyle
Campaign Veteran
NOTHING YOU SAY CAN HELP. So why say anything, if you did donuts as stated above (hypothetically) and you tell the officer - (recorded he now has rock solid evidence to make sure the book gets thrown at you once in court.) Some officers may cut you a break, but the way I see it if they really had that in mind then why initiate the stop to begin with? To mess with you, right? Either way you are totally at their mercy so why compound things by giving them the tools needed to nail your nads to the wall?