California bans open carry

Posted by buggybear:
-Ya....I get it.....You're constitutionalists.....That's fine. Why stop there? There is another document, written by man, that had and has been used, in whole or in part, to create the laws we live by. It's called The Bible.

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Seriously? That's what you've got?

How many people here have held up your hand and sworn to support and defend the Constitution?

How many people here have held up your hand and sworn to support and defend the Bible?

Yeah, I thought so.

It's easy to tell when someone has no defense for their position. They start comparing apples to oranges and throwing out strawman arguments.

Doc: You need to stay on point, please. First off, I didn't insult you or any veteran. I thank every veteran and LEO within your group for your service to this country. I've strongly expressed a differing opinion and, oddly enough, I have had my intelligence, honor, honesty and integrity questioned or insulted on the majority of responses. I would expect veterans and LEO's to disagree with me if they were so inclined; but the personal attacks on me has me questioning the veracity of their claims as veterans and LEO.....In my experience, public servants don't do that to eachother. And your story of the crappy cop trial??? What the heck does that have to do with anything we're talking about??? That's just you justifying your skewed view of law enforcement (and we both probably know why it's skewed...) by relaying a bad cop story. My reply to that....GOOD! I feel nothing but relief and joy in the outcasting of bad cops.

PPMama: You bring nothing to this thread. You've implied that I lack intelligence when the gist of all of my posts suggest otherwise. You may "pack" something very powerful on your hip, mom, but I'm pretty sure you're coming to this discussion......unarmed.

So, day before yesterday, I sent a squad of Mobile Field Force members to assist in the OWS demonstrations in Oakland. Upon their return, we de-briefed. Rather than tell what was said, let me tell you what wasn't said. After relaying the assaults they received (including pelting with rocks, thrown jars of paint and bottles of urine), not a single officer sani-wiped his face and announced; "you know what those people really needed to have......GUNS!". You see, the "lowest common denominator" out there had rocks and bottles of piss as weapons, so that's what they used. AND YOU PEOPLE WANT THOSE KINDS OF CITIZENS TO BE LEGALLY ARMED FOR THAT CONFRONTATION!!!!

buggybear said:

So, day before yesterday, I sent a squad of Mobile Field Force members to assist in the OWS demonstrations in Oakland. Upon their return, we de-briefed. Rather than tell what was said, let me tell you what wasn't said. After relaying the assaults they received (including pelting with rocks, thrown jars of paint and bottles of urine), not a single officer sani-wiped his face and announced; "you know what those people really needed to have......GUNS!". You see, the "lowest common denominator" out there had rocks and bottles of piss as weapons, so that's what they used. AND YOU PEOPLE WANT THOSE KINDS OF CITIZENS TO BE LEGALLY ARMED FOR THAT CONFRONTATION!!!!

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Not that I'm going to start an argument of who was in the wrong there but.... it is another asinine comment. So.... you can guarantee that no one in that crowd had a firearm? It's legal to open carry shotguns and handguns as we speak in CA, did they shoot at you? If so, guess what, they'd be CRIMINALS WHO DON'T OBEY LAWS! Isn't there a law against shooting at cops?

Enforce the laws you have today and you'll do just fine.

We had 100,000 + demonstrators ouside the state capital in Madison, WI and LOADED (one in the chamber) is legal here with no background check or permit or training and NO ONE got shot during the demonstrations. No arrests for anyone pointing guns at anyone either.

buggybear said:

PPMama: You bring nothing to this thread. You've implied that I lack intelligence when the gist of all of my posts suggest otherwise.

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Oh honey, I didn't mean to imply; I meant to say it straight out. :lol:

I don't really know what difference this California law makes. Carrying an unloaded firearm is like taking a dose of saltpeter before going out looking for some action. (I realize it is an imperfect analogy, since none of us ventures forth armed hoping to find cause to use our weapons).

The whole purpose of "open carry" is to have a loaded sidearm ready for action as a deterrent and a ready answer to criminal assault. The best form of "California style open carry" would probably be a cocked 1911 carried in such a manner that a magazine could be rapidly slammed in and the slide cycled or the slide stop released as fast as possible. "California open carry" is a joke to begin with. An unloaded firearm is absolutely useless.


Well, I suppose that California will soon be an oasis of crime-free Eden-like existence. All the antis can just move there, and when some bad guy with a pistol rousts them and demands their submission they can just laugh and say: "Why you silly fellow. Don't you know you are breaking the law?" and of course the would be robber or rapist will hang his head in shame and apologize.

Yes, with this new law California will lead the rest of the nation and set an example of what strict gun control can do to protect people.

ESPECIALLY THE BAD GUYS WHO DON'T GIVE A TINKER'S DAMN WHAT THE LAW IS but then "bad guys are God's children too"

(No they aren't, but try telling that to your Governor Moonbeam)

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

Not that I'm going to start an argument of who was in the wrong there but.... it is another asinine comment. So.... you can guarantee that no one in that crowd had a firearm? It's legal to open carry shotguns and handguns as we speak in CA, did they shoot at you? If so, guess what, they'd be CRIMINALS WHO DON'T OBEY LAWS! Isn't there a law against shooting at cops?

Enforce the laws you have today and you'll do just fine.

We had 100,000 + demonstrators ouside the state capital in Madison, WI and LOADED (one in the chamber) is legal here with no background check or permit or training and NO ONE got shot during the demonstrations. No arrests for anyone pointing guns at anyone either.

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Paul.....Of course there wasn't any OCers in the crowd; Downtown Oakland is not a Palo Alto Starbucks.....No, there was no guarantee that someone wasn't armed illegally; there is never a guarantee. The point is, the percentage of total criminals who illegally arm themselves for the commission of their crime is relatively small (and yet, look at the weapon assault numbers). If all criminals could legally arm themselves then the availability is using that weapon will be theirs for the taking. Congrats on the Madison event; wonderful part of the country. It's not LA or Oakland....It's not Miami.....It's not Chicago....It's not Detroit....It's not______......

buggybear said:

Paul.....Of course there wasn't any OCers in the crowd

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Are you sure? It is legal, for now.

buggybear said:

Paul.....Of course there wasn't any OCers in the crowd; Downtown Oakland is not a Palo Alto Starbucks.....No, there was no guarantee that someone wasn't armed illegally; there is never a guarantee. The point is, the percentage of total criminals who illegally arm themselves for the commission of their crime is relatively small (and yet, look at the weapon assault numbers). If all criminals could legally arm themselves then the availability is using that weapon will be theirs for the taking. Congrats on the Madison event; wonderful part of the country. It's not LA or Oakland....It's not Miami.....It's not Chicago....It's not Detroit....It's not______......

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And, again, sir....It's only arrogance and naivete that has you pondering whether to "start an arguement about who was in the wrong" from the comfort of your office chair 1800 miles from here. Don't fret; your Armed Forces and Law Enforcement communities fight hard for your right to be so condescending.

buggybear said:

And, again, sir....It's only arrogance and naivete that has you pondering whether to "start an arguement about who was in the wrong" from the comfort of your office chair 1800 miles from here. Don't fret; your Armed Forces and Law Enforcement communities fight hard for your right to be so condescending.

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Pfft.. You CA LEO's are out of control. I had a friend of mine hassled while he was UOC in San Francisco. Can't wait for the Supreme Court to slap you boys down.

I'm thinking someone's had a little too much Kool Aid....

I'd be bummed if my local Leo's were getting hit with bottles of urine. As to those that shirk their duties, it doesn't bother me too much. It must have made you feel better to get even with that OWS rabble.

http://www.examiner.com/human-right...nconscious-from-occupy-oakland-police-attacks

buggybear said:

I would expect veterans and LEO's to disagree with me if they were so inclined; but the personal attacks on me has me questioning the veracity of their claims as veterans and LEO.....In my experience, public servants don't do that to eachother.

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Ok, I understand using the "thin blue line" BS to cover up the crimes you and other police have, are, or will be committing, but expecting all vets to fall into that BS as well...

Ok, lets be realistic here. No one is gonna change his mind or even get into an actual conversation with him. He has been presented with a opprutunity to not only make his job easier but also possibly give him another reason to write someone a ticket or arrest them and make his numbers. Pissin into the wind would be more productive than having a conversation with this man.

buggybear said:

Ok, I'm back....and I haven't read any of your replies yet...

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Then we shall follow your example. :lol:

Well, I would, but you bring up so many ridiculous comments, I'm inclined to respond, anyway:

buggybear said:

First off, I didn't insult you or any veteran.

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I'm a veteran. I find your comments quite insulting.

I thank every veteran and LEO within your group for your service to this country.

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You're welcome.

I've strongly expressed a differing opinion and, oddly enough, I have had my intelligence, honor, honesty and integrity questioned or insulted on the majority of responses. I would expect veterans and LEO's to disagree with me if they were so inclined; but the personal attacks on me has me questioning the veracity of their claims as veterans and LEO...

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Do you really expect me to send you a copy of my DD-214? Right...

In my experience, public servants don't do that to eachother.

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In my experience, we expect more from others who, like us, have taken an oath. And we're hardest on those who indicate, as have your comments, that they've broken their oaths.

I feel nothing but relief and joy in the outcasting of bad cops.

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At least we have one thing in common.

PPMama: You bring nothing to this thread.

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Really? I think she brings A LOT. Especially a lot more than you.

You've implied that I lack intelligence...

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I'm inclined to agree with her.

...when the gist of all of my posts suggest otherwise.

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You're legend in your own mind, Sir.

So, day before yesterday, I sent a squad of Mobile Field Force members to assist in the OWS demonstrations in Oakland. Upon their return, we de-briefed. Rather than tell what was said, let me tell you what wasn't said. After relaying the assaults they received (including pelting with rocks, thrown jars of paint and bottles of urine)...

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Is that the quality of citizens you have in California? I'd feel for you, but in my experience, from grade school, high school, and more than three decades as an adult, when your mindset as a supervisor is that they're immature, idiots, they rise to your expectations, but if your mindset is that they're mature, responsible citizens, they'll rise to that expectation as well. Not everyone in either case, mind you. But the vast majority of them, yes.

Perhaps that's why the OWS demonstrations here in Colorado Springs have been very peaceful.

buggybear said:

So, day before yesterday, I sent a squad of Mobile Field Force members to assist in the OWS demonstrations in Oakland. Upon their return, we de-briefed. Rather than tell what was said, let me tell you what wasn't said. After relaying the assaults they received (including pelting with rocks, thrown jars of paint and bottles of urine), not a single officer sani-wiped his face and announced; "you know what those people really needed to have......GUNS!". You see, the "lowest common denominator" out there had rocks and bottles of piss as weapons, so that's what they used. AND YOU PEOPLE WANT THOSE KINDS OF CITIZENS TO BE LEGALLY ARMED FOR THAT CONFRONTATION!!!!

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Interesting, seems you are more concerned about an easier job than liberty.

First, if they are willing to throw rocks and cause mayhem do you think laws against having a firearm will affect their decisions? If so why didn't laws against assault stop them from throwing rocks at you? The answer is that the majority would not have firearms anyway as they want to have light conflict and likely be arrested. Also, news reports indicate some were armed, begging the question: how many were shot? If none were shot then likely having such a crowd largely armed would not have made a difference. Finally, I would rather all of such a crowd be armed if it was a choice between such and only police being armed. If you wonder why it is simply because I have no use for police, yet I have great use of being armed myself; I would gladly choose having everyone (thus me too) armed instead of just you armed. I have no trust in police in general; a good bit because of those like yourself who would prefer to take away my right to bear arms.

Here is a different way to look at the occupiers. Since they are unarmed they will at worst be arrested which will make them happy and encourage longer occupation along with more young useful idiots to join. History has shown such. If they were armed to the teeth and started assaulting and destroying things or acting as an insurrectionist militia, police would likely be safe behind barricades looking on as National Guard troops were brought in to put down an armed insurrection. The bonus would be the mortality rate amongst such a group of evil people (occupiers obviously). With people dying I highly doubt more young idiots would join when reports indicate most are there looking for a date, free food, something fun to do on vacation, a fun crowd to join.

I'll always choose liberty, even if it includes more trouble for police, over a police state.

Daylen said:

I'll always choose liberty, even if it includes more trouble for police, over a police state.

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+1

:banana:

buggybear said:

Doc: You need to stay on point, please. First off, I didn't insult you or any veteran. I thank every veteran and LEO within your group for your service to this country. I've strongly expressed a differing opinion and, oddly enough, I have had my intelligence, honor, honesty and integrity questioned or insulted on the majority of responses. I would expect veterans and LEO's to disagree with me if they were so inclined; but the personal attacks on me has me questioning the veracity of their claims as veterans and LEO.....In my experience, public servants don't do that to eachother. And your story of the crappy cop trial??? What the heck does that have to do with anything we're talking about??? That's just you justifying your skewed view of law enforcement (and we both probably know why it's skewed...) by relaying a bad cop story. My reply to that....GOOD! I feel nothing but relief and joy in the outcasting of bad cops.

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Sorry I didn't mean to insult you but you say it best "YOU ARE A PUBLIC SERVANT". Unfortunately your other comments say something different; they say your neighbors and the people you work for (LAW ABIDING CITIZENS) are either a threat to you or are like children and need to be treated like such. A badge doesn't make you a god, please remember that. I know good cops a lot of them; I have worked with a lot of them. Just like there are good and bad doctors there are cops that think they are better than the average citizen. Karma is a wonderful thing just ask Kaddafi, Hitler, and any other tyrant. I don't agree with the protesters and I believe in law and order, the problem is law and order is not always around. If the people making and enforcing these anti-gun laws could be personally held responsible if something happens to any unarmed citizen do you honestly think they would have past them? Governor you, the legislator, mayor, and the police department all have to pay the families of the people killed at the quarry 9 million dollars each for failing to protect them after you made it illegal for them to protect themselves. This would be out of your personal money not the department, state, or city funds.

Your state disarms honest people and makes more victims. It also makes honest citizen easier to control and make into slaves. A dishonest cop is no better than a guard at a concentration camp in Germany in WWII. They are not making the rules but they blindly enforce them knowing they are wrong.
A good way of looking at it is your daughter is broke down on the side of a deserted road (being assaulted) and needs jumper cables but your state has made it illegal to carry jumper cables. You are out of town and a guy drives by, he would have stopped but the new law made him leave his jumper cables at home just like your daughter was forced to leave hers at home. He did call AAA but they said it would be some time before they could get there to help.
Looking at every American citizen as the enemy is not a great way to go through life and you shouldn’t be protecting and WORKING FOR us if you feel that way.

1st and 2nd amendment coexisting in perfect harmony. Makes me want to sing kumbaya around a campfire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjOwSIsgE8c

Hey Doc, the "illegal jumper cables" scene wasn't all that far-fecthed. Some years back I think it was ASE wanted to outlazw selling spare parts to anyone but pro mechanics because of "safety concerns" (but really to gin up bizz for ASE Cetrified mechanics).

Now I am gonna be kinda tough on Buggybear, whom I will give the pet name "Bugs". Listen, Bugs. I like "open carry" as it is recognized in Virginia for the simple reason that if my shirt or jacket blows open in the wind I am not technically violating some idiotic "must conceal/no printing" law. This comes in handy in the summer when a loose open shirt is often all the coverup I am likely to be confortable with (aside from pants and shoes, I haste to add).

Now let's talk about those Oakland protesters, the Students Wildly Indignant about Nearly Everything (S.W.I.N.E.) who are pelting the cops with bodily waste. I don't know why you guys didn't anticipate this and have all kinds of surveillance set up to document the fact that the punks freaaking asked for the wood shampoo they (ought to all have) got(ten). That kid who is (allegedly) an Iraq vet and who (allegedly) got struck and wounded by a tear gas projectile? Somebody needs to tell folks that Benedict Arnold had a chest full of medals and being a combat vet does NOT excuse every damn thing one does. I'm given to understand that these same folks going shame on you for injuring a war hero also spat on a female Coast Guard officer and use an American flag as a doormat at the entrance to their site. IMO it's too bad that 1960s style riot control with throat level bayonets and flyng wedges used to split the riot into smaller and smaller pieces is not still practiced. Then take a team of horses with lines and grappling hooks and pull all the tents and stuff into the middle of the park and burn it all.:cuss: Sez me.


Now Bugs, you say that if OC were permitted then these folks would have free access to guns? (1) They already do and (2) this throwing the #1and2 cocktails is a practice ccommon in some of the nation's rougher correctional facilities; leading me to believe that many of the freaks doing this are convicted felons to begin with. The folks throwing the nasty stuff are not the clueless overprivileged college kids who get interviewed on the news; rather they are an uncouth (to say the least) element hired by the folks behind this thing to create an atmosphere that the little lambykins will get caught up in, with a view toward having some bleeding young white middle class kids on TV. I think if I were the Oakland Chief of Police I would put a dragnet up around the encampment, haul everybody in, and separate the sheep from the goats. The innocent teenyboppers get a hot meal and a phone call to Mommy to arrange a ride home. The goats get identified from video and get the book thrown at them.


It has been my experience here in VA that when I have had to wade through a phalanx of bums and street trash to get in and out of a convenience store; about a week of going there visibly armed and just conducting my business translates into not being bothered afterward even if I go in carrying concealed or not even armed at all. See, Bugs; an honest citizen armed with a loaded handgun may cause some misplaced concern among the sheeple, but the wolves know exactly what it means. There was a 7-11 near where I lived a few years back that was infested with hookers, pimps and the attendant human garbage. I and some others started OCing whenever we went there and in less than a month the vermin went elsewhere. The only complaint to the cops came from a cheap motel across the street that all the folkss with guns were driving his business off, and I imagine the County cops had a laugh over that one.


We citizens cannot wait for the likes of you to show up after the deed has been done proclaiming (cue Wally Cox) "There's no need to fear! BuggyBear is here!"


And no, I do not advocate "taking matters into one's own hands" willy-nilly. It's just that SOMETIMES matters are THRUST INTO one's hands and must be dealt with NOW.


I think my posts here on this forum speak for themselves, and my bona fides as a member of this community are well established. My respect for law enforcement is well known, and if you think I don't understand the day-to-day stresses of being a cop on and off duty then I invite you to go to the Kindle online store and buy and read my novel "The Peterson Investigation" ($1.99 - CHEAP!) It's a good read and I am sure that once you have gotten through it you will understand that I do know what a cop is about. Now I have to go 10-8 10-10 (in my cab).

Well said!