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Would you hesitate to use deadly force against a child?

ajr80

New member
Joined
Mar 19, 2014
Messages
3
Location
Newport Kentucky
I can agree with what all of you have said. Essentially a threat is a threat! When I sit back and really think about this, I'm afraid that I would hesitate when faced with the situation of using deadly force against a child.
 

KRM59

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2010
Messages
256
Location
louisville, Kentucky
makes no difference

I am sorry if this sounds cold or unfeeling, But it makes ( for me ) no difference as to age, sex or mental status, a threat is a threat. I have had engage young and old male and female, I did not give any consideration to anything but eliminating the threat.
 

Eagle-Six

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
25
Location
Cadiz, KY
I know this thread is a lil old, but feel compelled to reply. I, unfortunately, have seen situations like this is Afghanistan. I myself did not have to "take Action" but others around me have. As has been said, a threat is a threat.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
The below link is a news story about 4 children, ages 11 to 13, ...

The law may consider that a child for the purposes of the law. It is NOT a child for the purposes of what they are capable of doing with their free will and physical abilities. Parents should be held responsible when their "child" does these things or they can visit their 12-yr old in prison if he survives. Some of these same "children" are bad parents themselves.

As for old people with dementia, that doesn't stop their gun from being as deadly as someone with malintent. Too bad their kids left them to fend for themselves when it got that bad. The person with dementia isn't going to be the person that cares either way.
 

FreeInAZ

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Oct 15, 2012
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2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
The law may consider that a child for the purposes of the law. It is NOT a child for the purposes of what they are capable of doing with their free will and physical abilities. Parents should be held responsible when their "child" does these things or they can visit their 12-yr old in prison if he survives. Some of these same "children" are bad parents themselves.

As for old people with dementia, that doesn't stop their gun from being as deadly as someone with malintent. Too bad their kids left them to fend for themselves when it got that bad. The person with dementia isn't going to be the person that cares either way.


^^^THIS!
God forbid it should ever come down to it, but if it's me or mine vs them, "they lose" period. You wield deadly force, expect to receive it in return & then some.
 

The Truth

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Jul 18, 2014
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Henrico
I know this thread is a lil old, but feel compelled to reply. I, unfortunately, have seen situations like this is Afghanistan. I myself did not have to "take Action" but others around me have. As has been said, a threat is a threat.

I have good friends who were in very similar situations and this thread made me think of them too. What a crappy situation. I agree with your last statement.
 

Chief Ten Beers

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
176
Location
Western Kentucky
I used to live in Maryland, right outside of Washington, D.C., and I knew of gangs of children who carried guns. They would shoot and kill you just as fast, if not faster than the adult gangbangers would, and if one ever pulled a gun on me, yes, I would not hesitate to shoot and kill that kid, if I did, he would not hesitate to rob and kill me.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,428
Location
northern wis
One of the first murders I investigated many years ago was 14yoa who shot and killed is brother and severely wounded his cousin. If he would have came out of the house he was holed up in armed I would have used the amount force necessary.
 

Maverick9

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Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
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Mid-atlantic
I think there are things, situations, events which would cause most people to hesitate.

I think there are such which would over-ride that hesitation.

In combat, most people would not want to kill the enemy, even acting against orders. But what over-rides that is the need to protect the guy next to them (combat-buddy, for example).

In combat, people might have trouble killing the enemy if that enemy is too much like them. To over-ride that, the officers and commanders will seek to find ways to 'de-humanize' the enemy.

In SD situations, many people will avoid using deadly force and the reason is that we find it very hard to kill in 'cold blood'. What over-rides that is the target (a loved one vs one's self).

In SD people who might not kill, if situations cause them to change to 'hot blood', then that over-rides the compunction against killing another human.

In normal situations where we might find it hard to attempt to harm another, being in a vehicle can over-ride that normal compunction. That's one reason to advise against one's firearm being too available if you are that type. You'd want to incline your response toward escaping, evading, deescalating.

In normal situations where one is in cold blood, one can have over-riding fear which might cause a reflexive action. As someone said we are not always aware of those subconscious influenences and don't really know how we will react. Can one, for example, develop a way to incur the 'hot blood' mode; conversely can one develop a way to defuse the 'hot blood' mode?

Thus, it's important to know that sometimes we take actions which are reflexive, perhaps due to training, perhaps due to unknown influences, but the most potent influences are those in the sub-conscious, becoming reflexes. I think military and LE seeks to develop those sub-conscious reflexes, to invoke an 'us vs them' attitude. This might be OK in War, but it's not ok in peace - in LE.

I might add that one reason we seek to get distance, time and cover, at least partially, is to give time for the reasoning brain to allow the best response. With LE, that includes patience, distance (before going -into- the situation), and backup (over-whelming force) which gives more options. You never want to cause, or to be in a very low option situation. Seek ways to improve or not limit options. Of course in the spur-of-the moment, perhaps too many options can work against you. (Hick's Law - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hick's_law.)

FWIW
 
Last edited:

chmcke01

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Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
5
Location
Salt Lick, KY
Depends

I know this probably isn't the way it should be, but I think it really depends...Older kids like "tweens" and older I think I would treat a threat as a threat as others have said. However, I don't think I could kill a kid like under 10 just to save myself...but I would if my daughters life was at risk.
 

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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Valhalla
I know this probably isn't the way it should be, but I think it really depends...Older kids like "tweens" and older I think I would treat a threat as a threat as others have said. However, I don't think I could kill a kid like under 10 just to save myself...but I would if my daughters life was at risk.
Welcome to the forum Chmcke01.

To stimulate some thinking - would you deprive your daughter of her father?

Shooting someone is not where any of us want to be......but to stop the threat to me or mine is not a choice I have to make. The aggressor makes that choice and puts the wheels in motion.
 

chmcke01

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Mar 27, 2015
Messages
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Location
Salt Lick, KY
Welcome to the forum Chmcke01.

To stimulate some thinking - would you deprive your daughter of her father?

Shooting someone is not where any of us want to be......but to stop the threat to me or mine is not a choice I have to make. The aggressor makes that choice and puts the wheels in motion.

Happy to be here!

Again I think it depends on the specifics, if it looks like a new gang member or something I would be more willing to shoot if needed than someone more innocent looking. One of the main reasons I might not shoot a child that was threatening just me is because I don't know what kind of father I would be after the weight on my shoulders of having killed a child. I don't think I could live with myself especially if it turned out the gun wasn't real or wasn't loaded or something like that. As an example, I really don't think I could shoot this kid even if I feared for my life:

http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Child_With_Gun.jpg

That said I don't think there is a limit to what I would do to protect my daughter and any future kids I may have. I just worry that I would be so messed up in the head with the guilt of killing a kid that I wouldn't be a good dad anymore. But you never know how it would be if it actually happened until you are in that situation.
 

solus

Regular Member
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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Welcome to the forum Chmcke01.

To stimulate some thinking - would you deprive your daughter of her father?

Shooting someone is not where any of us want to be......but to stop the threat to me or mine is not a choice I have to make. The aggressor makes that choice and puts the wheels in motion.

+1

addendum: including a < 10-year old who is misguided in thinking their 'toy' won't harm anybody as they point their firearm towards me or those i care about!!

their grasp of reality is weak at best and as such they truly believe if they pull the trigger and shoot someone, that person will arise, unscathed, like in their video games! nope, not even going to take a chance they are bad aims either!

ipse
 

self preservation

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Apr 8, 2012
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1,036
Location
Owingsville,KY
I know this probably isn't the way it should be, but I think it really depends...Older kids like "tweens" and older I think I would treat a threat as a threat as others have said. However, I don't think I could kill a kid like under 10 just to save myself...but I would if my daughters life was at risk.

Welcome. It's refreshing to see another Bath County resident join this forum. Your response is interesting because you would have that hesitation that I described in the OP (I may very well hesitate myself if faced with this type of threat) . Not busting your chops, just pointing out that every ones minds works differently. As Grapeshot has said, that may be a mindset that you will want to consider changing. Shooting anyone would be awful. I'm sure it being a kid would add to the stress of the situation. But as others have said, a threat is a threat.
 

chmcke01

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Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
5
Location
Salt Lick, KY
True

Welcome. It's refreshing to see another Bath County resident join this forum. Your response is interesting because you would have that hesitation that I described in the OP (I may very well hesitate myself if faced with this type of threat) . Not busting your chops, just pointing out that every ones minds works differently. As Grapeshot has said, that may be a mindset that you will want to consider changing. Shooting anyone would be awful. I'm sure it being a kid would add to the stress of the situation. But as others have said, a threat is a threat.

That's probably true, but I still don't think I could do it. No one really knows what they would actually do until they are in that situation but I like to think I would put my life at risk to save a child I didn't know so I certainly don't think I could cause the death of a child. I think I would try to "talk them down." I know in some places there are young children in gangs who would knowingly kill people...but this isn't something I have seen or even heard of around here.
 

Grapeshot

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Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
That's probably true, but I still don't think I could do it. No one really knows what they would actually do until they are in that situation but I like to think I would put my life at risk to save a child I didn't know so I certainly don't think I could cause the death of a child. I think I would try to "talk them down." I know in some places there are young children in gangs who would knowingly kill people...but this isn't something I have seen or even heard of around here.
Yep, does appear a good place to live.....but we carry for hoped for never needed reasons.

http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/zip-code/kentucky/salt_lick/40371
 
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