what would you do?

[jay75009]

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Anissue came up in an earlier conversation on one of the threats and made me think.

so i have a question to ask everyone............

in a situation where you were armed, and in public, and you saw another persons life about to be taken from them........

what would you do? Would you intervine and save that persons life, and risk yours to do so? or would you stand by and wait for the police to arrive?

just a question


edit: this applys to anyone, does not matter if you know them or not

 

[Sonora Rebel]

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Aw, hell no... I'm too much of a cowboy. IfI were to assess that somebody was really gonna get whacked or in the process... Me 'n Mr. .45 or whatever I had handy-by would put a stop to it.

Die tryin'? Yeah... I ain't fearless but I'm focused.

 

[r6-rider]

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I would help. just be sure not to shoot the victim. if i had a doubt that i might hit him/her i wouldnt shoot and if they die because of that well, at least i attempted to help. im not about to go to court for saving someone but i accidentally got shrapnel or something in their arm. then killing the perp would 100% be justified since he has already taken the life of another

 

[usnavy_233]

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In VA I have a legal right to protect someone else's life as well as my own. Besides the legality of it, it's the right thing to do in my opinion. So yes, I would risk my life for someone else.

 

[Brendon .45]

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I had to answer honestly that I am not sure.

I would like to say yes, absolutely I would; but there are too many variables that could come into play.

I have in the past stood up for others (strangers) as they were being verbally attacked by thugs who appeared to be escalating the situations. I was not armed at those times.

 

[architect]

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Brendon .45 wrote:

I had to answer honestly that I am not sure.

I would like to say yes, absolutely I would; but there are too many variables that could come into play.

I think you're reading more into the question than is there. It is not "would you risk your life to protect an arbitrary person?" As the question is written, "someone" effectively means "is there a person for whom you would risk your life?" Much, much easier to answer in the affirmative.

Perhaps not what the OP wanted to ask, but that's how I read it.

 

[jay75009]

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architect wrote:

Brendon .45 wrote:

I had to answer honestly that I am not sure.

I would like to say yes, absolutely I would; but there are too many variables that could come into play.

I think you're reading more into the question than is there. It is not "would you risk your life to protect an arbitrary person?" As the question is written, "someone" effectively means "is there a person for whom you would risk your life?" Much, much easier to answer in the affirmative.

Perhaps not what the OP wanted to ask, but that's how I read it.
\

openly really, someone as in a family member, friend, spous, boss, coworker, or even the mailman, next door neighbor or the pizza deivery guy...........the base point of the post is to see how many gun owners would act on a situation where someone, anyone really. could die if you did not step in.

 

[MikeV]

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The word "someone" isn't used in the title of the tread nor in the body of the OP's senario. The title uses "another" and in the body "a person" is used. The poll is not titled "Is there someone you would risk your life to help?" To imply that the polster meant so would be silly. After all why would you need to take a poll to know that 100% of us would answer yes.

I to answered honestly that I don't know. I will qualify that and say if given slightly worse than even odds that I would survive I would. I have more than my own survivability to consider. The loss of my life could greatly impact the survivability of my family as well.

 

[Brendon .45]

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I would absolutely put myself in harms way if it were my girls. But on the other side of that, I don't want them to grow up without their daddy either.

As I read the question, I pictured a scenario where I saw something happening to a stranger; and there the circumstances at the time woulddrive my actions.

 

[deepdiver]

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MikeV wrote:

I to answered honestly that I don't know. I will qualify that and say if given slightly worse than even odds that I would survive I would. I have more than my own survivability to consider. The loss of my life could greatly impact the survivability of my family as well.

*DING* Exactly!

The question and scenario are so vague as to make an honest answer impossible. For two examples that meet the criteria of the OP:

1) Scenario similar to the North Hollywood shootout. With your family hiding ducked down behind a big dumpster with the action moving away from you. Someone 25 yards away goes down wounded and body armored BG with full auto AK approaches them raising weapon and taking a bead.

ME: I'm NOT leaving my family and running headlong into a hail of full auto 7.62 to foolishly try to save the wounded person with my sidearm.

2) By myself walking to my car in a parking garage. See a man with a knife jumps out from between 2 cars grabbing a passing woman and trying to drag her between the cars with him. She screams "HELP!" and struggles against him pushing him away and starts moving towards me.

ME: Drop anything in my hands, draw my sidearm and start moving towards them screaming "Drop the knife scumbag! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!" - or something dramatic like that. In short, almost 100% chance I am going to get involved.

Ok, so those are kinda lame but I think make the point that "would you risk your life to save another" covers a lot of ground. There are many different levels of risk and anything in life requires a risk/rewards assessment. If likelihood of success is minimal with an almost 100% risk of serious injury or death for me, being alive to take care of my family is going to win while the reverse is a definite.

To be honest, when I was single and my brother was still alive, my risk threshold was much higher. Now I am an only child and my death would be devastating to my parents and I have a wife and hopefully soon a child I am responsible to be there to support in every way. My acceptable risk threshold is lower so that if I have or take the time to think about intervention there are probably situations I would have intervened in when I had less responsibility to others that I would be more cautious about now. Add to that the wisdom of age and knowing I am not indestructible now as my sometimes aching body and cancer taught me will realistically cause me to perhaps react differently now than I might have 5 or 10 years ago.

 

[Gator5713]

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deepdiver wrote:

MikeV wrote:

I to answered honestly that I don't know. I will qualify that and say if given slightly worse than even odds that I would survive I would. I have more than my own survivability to consider. The loss of my life could greatly impact the survivability of my family as well.

*DING* Exactly!

The question and scenario are so vague as to make an honest answer impossible. For two examples that meet the criteria of the OP:

1) Scenario similar to the North Hollywood shootout. With your family hiding ducked down behind a big dumpster with the action moving away from you. Someone 25 yards away goes down wounded and body armored BG with full auto AK approaches them raising weapon and taking a bead.

ME: I'm NOT leaving my family and running headlong into a hail of full auto 7.62 to foolishly try to save the wounded person with my sidearm.

2) By myself walking to my car in a parking garage. See a man with a knife jumps out from between 2 cars grabbing a passing woman and trying to drag her between the cars with him. She screams "HELP!" and struggles against him pushing him away and starts moving towards me.

ME: Drop anything in my hands, draw my sidearm and start moving towards them screaming "Drop the knife scumbag! Get on the ground! Get on the ground!" - or something dramatic like that. In short, almost 100% chance I am going to get involved.

Ok, so those are kinda lame but I think make the point that "would you risk your life to save another" covers a lot of ground. There are many different levels of risk and anything in life requires a risk/rewards assessment. If likelihood of success is minimal with an almost 100% risk of serious injury or death for me, being alive to take care of my family is going to win while the reverse is a definite.

To be honest, when I was single and my brother was still alive, my risk threshold was much higher. Now I am an only child and my death would be devastating to my parents and I have a wife and hopefully soon a child I am responsible to be there to support in every way. My acceptable risk threshold is lower so that if I have or take the time to think about intervention there are probably situations I would have intervened in when I had less responsibility to others that I would be more cautious about now. Add to that the wisdom of age and knowing I am not indestructible now as my sometimes aching body and cancer taught me will realistically cause me to perhaps react differently now than I might have 5 or 10 years ago.

Pretty much exactly what I was thinking!

 

[Dreamer]

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Yes I would if I were 100% sure I could correctly identify who was the "bad guy" and who was the "good guy".

We discussed this very issue for a LONG time when I took my CC class. I can't speak for other locations, but in NC, responding with deadly force needs to be justified if you don't want to wind up in jail yourself. You need to be CERTAIN you unerstand the dynamics of the situation, and you'd better have a clear understanding of what transpired leading up to the situation before you pull your trigger (or even pull your gun).

Say you're in a parking lot. You see a woman walking to her car quickly, and a man walking up behind her. She's getting into her purse, and he reached for her elbow. She spins around with a gun, and yells "Get the hell away from me!"

Shoot or don't shoot?

Most folks would assume this was some sort of stalker situation, or possible a mugging or rape about to happen. But what you don't know (and under NC law, this is where it gets CRITICAL) is what transpired before this event, and who the ORIGINAL aggressor was. Under NC law, it's the person who "started the fight"--the person who first committed an inflammatory or provocative act--that is the BG. And unless you know THAT detail, it might be difficult to assess what any given situation REALLY is. And if you choose the wrong person, and shoot (or even pull a gun on) someone who is innocent, that makes you an accessory to whatever bad thing the BG did. Forget about GATTTOTP--choose the wrong person in NC, and now you're looking at aggravated assault or worse...



So what you DON'T know is what went on before you saw this happen. What if THIS was the story: A man is having dinner with some business associates. A woman (who is his wife) walks in the restaurant with another man. The husband notices his wife and gets up to walk over to her table and see what's going on. When he walks up to her table and asks who the man is, and is polite and a little confused, the wife throws her drink in his face, and tells him she's planning on leaving him anyway, so he can just f^@% off. Then she gets up and storms out. The husband follows her to the parking lot, trying to understand what just happened, and this cheating, crazy wife pulls a gun on him...

NOW who would you point your gun at?


Or how about this one. You are walking downtown. Some guy comes running down the street and tackles another man, and starts yelling at him to "give me the wallet", and starts punching him. The guy who was tackled struggles free and pulls a revolver from his pocket.

Who do you draw down on?

Most people would assume this was a mugging, and the victim is attempting to defend himself with his gun.

What you don't know is that the guy who was tackled and is now holding a gun is a career pickpocket, and a convicted felon. The guy who tackled him was his latest victim, and te pickpocket almost got away with his Christmas Shopping wallet, which had over $2500 in cash in it, not to mention his credit cards and IDs. The guy with the gun is, in fact a convicted felon, has just committed grand larceny (another felony) and is in illegal possession of a firearm, and is carrying concealed without a permit. The guy who tackled him is an ex star running back from the local high school who now runs football workshops for the local Boys Club, is married and has three small children, and has never so much as had a parking ticket.

NOW who would you point your gun at?


1) Know the law.
2) Understand the situation.
3) Never draw unless you KNOW you are in the right.

 

[tcmech]

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Way too many variables come into play here.

If I am with my wife and child and I die what kind of danger did I leave them in?

Am I definitely going to die? if so the original victim is probably in crap over their heads because I just left this perpetrator an additional weapon.

If I am alone, and have a reasonable expectation of surviving the encounter I would probably risk my life for a complete stranger providing that I have clear understanding of who the good guy is and who the bad guy is.

For example if a naked man with a rambo knife is chasing a screaming naked woman down the street I will come to the rescue, with or without a weapon of my own. If the situation is not quite so clear cut Iwill assess the situation before stepping in.

 

[vt800c]

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simple question.

Simple Answer: Yes. I already have when I served my 20 in the Air Force.

Nowhere did it say anything about shooting or even drawing your firearm. All it may need to defuse it is a loud 'Hey!' or the sight of me racking my slide. any distraction can change the dynamic of the event, and if BGs learn that a stranger is watching..they will often change their tactic into a 'sneaker block' You see, modt BGs are basically weak, chicken-ass cowards. That is why they attack in a mob (afraid to do ANYthing without a handful of friends to 'watch their back'). Rarely is there a one-on-one encounter. If there is, knowing someone can SEE them (and be a witness) they would rather retreat to the shadows.

That is what being a sheepdog is all about. We stand between the wolves and the sheeple.

 

[suntzu]

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I would lay down my life for members of my family.

That said, I have no such desire to defend total strangers when I have absolutely no idea whether or not they brought the problems upon themselves. If they started the fight and ended up on the losing end of it--that's just too bad in my opinion, the next time they'll learn to mind their own business.


There are exceptions of course--someone being raped, or to prevent the kidnapping of a child if the child is screaming that he/she is being kidnapped, defending the elderly from attack, or defending someone from an active shooter when the police are not in sight, interrupting an armed robbery and so on.

I have serious concerns about drawing to defend just any tom, dick or harry, because you have absolutely no idea if they are the primary belligerent to the attack, if the person on the losing end is a criminal being attacked by a plain clothes police, or so on.

there are just too many variables that come into play to answer this question with a blanket "yes I would defend anyone" answer.

 

[suntzu]

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deepdiver wrote:

MikeV wrote:

I to answered honestly that I don't know. I will qualify that and say if given slightly worse than even odds that I would survive I would. I have more than my own survivability to consider. The loss of my life could greatly impact the survivability of my family as well.

*DING* Exactly!

The question and scenario are so vague as to make an honest answer impossible. For two examples that meet the criteria of the OP:

1) Scenario similar to the North Hollywood shootout. With your family hiding ducked down behind a big dumpster with the action moving away from you. Someone 25 yards away goes down wounded and body armored BG with full auto AK approaches them raising weapon and taking a bead.

This is the scenario that calls for a .308 or a .300

The thing to remember about body armor--it isn't perfect, and there is almost always open, exposed areas--legs for example, groin area, head, shoulders--assuming they don't see you before you get a shot off, and assuming your round is on target.

Bad thing about this--handgun against a rifle like a real AK or even an AK clone is a losing proposition, because the AK has the distinct advantage of range, power and magazine capacity and getting pinned down will not bode well for you, plus the police will probably see you and just shoot you before they give you time to explain..

 

[Wangmuf]

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suntzu wrote:

if the child is screaming that he/she is being kidnapped,

My 7 year old nephew, upon advice from his father, my brother-in-law, has screamed "I don't know you, leave me alone!" at me in public before when I picked him up while we were playing at the park..... My bro-in-law found it hilarious when everyone at the park turned to look at us. I doubt he would have kept laughing if you had pointed a gun at me.



To answer the OP, family/friend, absolutely. If I were in the position to be able to defend them, I'd likely know the situation.

For Joe Schmo Stranger, I have a cell phone with a camera. I'd call the police, and if possible/safe, take video of the situation until they got there. Being a good witness is better than being in jail for not knowing the situation, IMO. I'm not a "sheepdog".

 

[okboomer]

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I voted yes to this due to excellent advanced training where this scenario was discussed at length.

The reason I answered yes was that I already had training that the only time to intervene was with enough knowledge to determine which was the BG.

Of course, I have already dialed 911, but while waiting to connect, I will attempt to identify myself and gain control of the situation, speaking loud enough for 911 to pick up. This is where digital 911 or enhanced 911 is invaluable as that recording cannot be 'lost' or 'disappeared' which will back me up when I claim "defense of another" and performing a citizen's arrest.

You should be familiar with your state's citizen's arrest laws. Our's contains the phrases, "commission of a misdemeanor in your presence," and, "the reasonable belief that a felony has been committed."

For the first, for ex: an assault and battery - generally not life threatening so no SD/DOA situation, do not draw gun.

For the second, for ex: heard gunshot from inside store, person runs out with gun in hand, another points and says, "they just shot someone and robbed the store," - reasonable belief that felony has been committed, fleeing is another felony being committed, SD/DOA situation, can draw gun. The additonal reasoning is that he might shoot someone else that happens to get in his way of fleeing.

Remember that this is not your responsibility to intervene, but if he is running towards you, go to cover/concealment, give the state mandated command to stop, you're under arrest. The catch-all is the phrase, "only use level of force to gain control of the arrestee."

Lot's of considerations to be addressed before taking any action in a situation.

 

[Superlite27]

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Very vague with way too many variables.....but I'll answer with what I'd probably do.

I am not a police officer. I have taken no vows, it's not my job, I'm not a paid superhero. Superlite27's first priority is Superlite27.

Some crazy stuff goes down, I'm savin' my butt. Everyone else is on their own. I have taken the training. I have chosen to carry. I have taken the steps neccessary to provide for my own safety.

NOTHING has prevented anyone else from doing the same thing for themselves. Nobody has prevented any other person from taking the same steps I have taken. If they aren't able to carry a weapon, maybe they should have made better choices that would have allowed them to do so.If they haven't broken the law, they are just as able to carry a gun as I am. When the bullets start flying is not the time to hope that Superlite comes to the rescue. You should've planned for your safety before that.

I have. Not myproblem if you haven't.

That being said, if children, the disabled, or close friends or family are involved, I will do my best to provide the protection I can give. Standing up in front of a hail of bullets and taking 2 to the chest isn't going to help anyone, so you'll have to excuse me if I save my own ass first. Once I have effectively done this, then I can worry about other things. Depending on the situation, I may indeed attempt to save your butt, if I can be reasonably assured of success. I might even risk my life if it were actually a child or someone else who never had a chance of credible self defense.

But if the restaraunt lobby is getting shot up and you're a 32 year old non-felon screaming "help me!" frombehind a chair, and I'm behind a stove?

Maybe you should have brought a gun. I'm behind a stove. As long as the guy shooting up the place isn't behind the same stove, I have no problem staying there.

 

[jaegan]

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I'm with most of the other commentors it seems - ie "It depends on the situation." I finally decided to carry daily after viewing Suzanna Gratia-Hupp's testimony about the death of her parents. Already being a gun owner, and reasonably proficient with my arms, I did some good hard thinking and came to the conclusion that I did not ever want to watch someone I cared about die because I, by my own choice, was powerless to keep it from happening. In that sense, I originally decide to carry not so much for my own protection, but to be able to protect those I love.

The people on my "I'd definitely defend them with my life" list are few, and I'd have to be absolutely certain I really knew what was happening before I involved myself in a situation between people I didn't know. Any honest police officer will tell you that sometimes the victims can become aggressors against them when the police intervene to stop domestic violence. Weird, but it happens a lot. Not all situations are that emotionally charged, or offer that same risk, but several other posters have run through scenarios detailing the risk of "what you don't know".


Everyone who carries need to think about this issue. Decide as much as possible what you are willing to do ahead of time, what the risks of your action (or inaction) are, what the conseqenses may be. And pray without ceasing that you never have to draw your weapon on anything but a paper target.