Theatre Shooting

[Sheriff]

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I'm sure most people have heard about the very recent theatre shooting. Man got disturbed at family talking in theatre. It was interfering with his viewing pleasure. He gets up and shoots the father of the family. Shooter obviously arrested, the injured father in hospital.

So, let's take it one step further. And it's something EVERYBODY should think about before the fact. After the armed assailant had shot the father, an open carry or concealed carry person stands up and shoots the original shooter dead.

What do you think theoutcome would now be in your state for this open carry or concealed carry party?

I'll go first. In my state, Virginia, I suspect the commonwealth would claim the event was basically over and should have ended with the father being shot. They would probably claim the second shooting was 2nd degree murder at least. The open carry or concealed carry party would be arrested and charged. $75,000 to $100,000 dollars in defense fees later,only God knows how a jury would rule. Hopefully a jury would exonerate the second shooter because nobody knew if the original shooter would have turned the gun on the other family members or not.

But, there is no rhyme or reason to the what a jury does in my locality. None whatsoever. I have seen them give rapists 40 years to life, while letting a suspect who stabbeda volunteer fireman to death off with 3 years to serve. I have seen them award $5,000 in civil cases when the plaintiff should have received $1,000,000. And I have seen them award $8,000,000 in civil trials when the plaintiff might have deserved $100,000 at most. A jury is a very strange beast. You never know which way the wind is blowing with them.

 

[Gordie]

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Our DA would probably shake your hand, and ask if you were OK. Advise you that if you had any trouble dealing with the emotional stress to ask for counseling.

If this is all that was involved in the incident, there would most likely be no charges filed.

 

[holeinhead]

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Seems to me that you'd have no idea if that was the only person he was gonna shoot. You also don't know if he was done shooting that one person. Now if you shot him 10min after the fact, sure you'd be in trouble, but I don't see how it's not justified if you shoot him right after he shoots the dad.

Of course the legal system doesn't always work the way we'd hope.

And a lot of the theaters in my are are "gun free zones" anyways, so this kind of incident will never happen there right?

 

[Hcidem]

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In Michigan, theaters are prohibited areas for people who do not have a CPL (concealed pistol license). Although we do not have a duty to retreat, we are only protected from civil lawsuits if we fire on an armed assailant who we believe is an imminent danger to ourselves or others when we are in an area in which we have a legal right to be. Clear as mud?

Therefore, any pistol owner with a CPL who is legally in the theater can shoot a dangerous assailant. The question of whether the defender has a legal basis to be armed in the theater (if it is a posted no-gun area) could be debatable.

Such a person would probably not be charged with a crime, but would possibly be open to a lawsuit by the assailant or his family.

 

[FoGKeebler]

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Here in Texas, the Ft. Worth area to be exact. I would say chances are that the second shooting would be justified and not prosecuted IF the protector shooter (second shooter) was licensed to carry concealed.

I cant speak obviously what would happen if the second shooter was in the theater was OC because we unfortunately do not allow it in our state yet. I would guess to say in this situation the second shooter would most likely be arrested.

This is an interesting situation. I recently was evolved in a small altercation while in a theater. I was sitting next to a guy who decided that he needed to answer his cell phone while we were watching a movie. I asked the gentleman politely the first time to please hang up, at which point he told me to mind my own business. The second time i was not polite in asking and informed him that i would ask the managers of the theater to remove him if he didn't comply. It was at this point i got support from fellow movie goers and he hung up the phone.

Afterwords on the way home i was discussing the issue with my Girl Friend. She asked me what would i have done if the guy physically assaulted me or presented some sort of weapon. As prepared as i believe i am for most situations I can honestly say i don't know what i would do. I am a great shot in either light or dark environments. I think that if the situation resulted in an assault with anything other then a gun i would have choose to fight hand to hand or just backed down.

A theater is not only a very dark environment but its extremely close quarters with lots of people within a confined area. I wouldn't want to see anyone else get shot over a fist or knife fight.

 

[marshaul]

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Anybody seen the episode of Californication where Duchovny's character deals with a guy talking on his cell phone during a film?

BTW, great show. More TV is needed with openly libertarian protagonists. :celebrate

 

[FoGKeebler]

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marshaul wrote:

Anybody seen the episode of Californication where Duchovny's character deals with a guy talking on his cell phone during a film?

BTW, great show. More TV is needed with openly libertarian protagonists. :celebrate

Not to deter from the purpose of this post, but do you have an episode number or name so we might try to watch it?

 

[Dustin]

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It would defintely depend on the time length after the first shot, and whether or not the shooter cooperated with my instructions or what his attitude was afterwards.

I seriously doubt he just shot the guy and sat back down, and NO ONE ran for the doors.

Would have been good to have a slincer though, all that comotion, people running everywhere screamingafter the first shot...... shhhhhh...thump..thump...thump.... good night .....

 

[Hawkflyer]

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Results in my part if Virginia would likely be the same as described in the OP. Many juries would convict on those details as well.

Regards

 

[SFCRetired]

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[marshaul]

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FoGKeebler wrote:

marshaul wrote:

Anybody seen the episode of Californication where Duchovny's character deals with a guy talking on his cell phone during a film?

BTW, great show. More TV is needed with openly libertarian protagonists. :celebrate

Not to deter from the purpose of this post, but do you have an episode number or name so we might try to watch it?

It's the Pilot episode.

 

[AWDstylez]

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Did the guy just sit down and continue to watch the movie? If you shoot him after he's already stopped shooting then you just acted as judge, jury, and executioner; so you're f*cked. If he's about to go on a rampage and you take him out, you'll probably get a commendation.

 

[ScottyT]

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If I had a clear shot and only a few seconds had passed -- meaning he still has a gun in hand and hasn't sat down yet -- I would probably take the shot.

To the "reasonable" individual, it was a completely unprovoked attack and the shooter very well might carry on shooting others, or at least the talkers' family.

I think you would be justified in the few seconds immediately following the shooting (maybe 5 seconds?), but less justified as more seconds passed. By the time you got a clear picture of the situation and your target, the shooter may well have reholstered and sat down or whatever.

 

[Sheriff]

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Many good replies so far.

See what I mean when I say it's a good idea to think about this stuff before it actually happens?

Know your city/county, know your prosecutors record, and know your state laws. A $75,000 to $100,000 defense fee can pretty much ruin your day!

 

[tag]

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marshaul wrote:

Anybody seen the episode of Californication where Duchovny's character deals with a guy talking on his cell phone during a film?

BTW, great show. More TV is needed with openly libertarian protagonists. :celebrate

Link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdYSgnfB4v4

 

[SFCRetired]

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[AWDstylez]

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Sheriff wrote:

A $75,000 to $100,000 defense fee can pretty much ruin your day!

An outstanding reason to only fire when in defence of yourself or someone that is directly with you. If the day ever comes when it occures my mind may change, but as things are now, if someone else is the victim of a crime then that's their own fault for not being prepared. I'm not going to risk my life (both immediately and in court) for someone else that could have and should have been prepared. My ethical responsibilitiesinclude loved ones as well, hence making it not worth sticking my neck out for a stranger.

 

[Task Force 16]

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Obviously, the OP's scenario gives us a good example of why we have to be able to assess a situation quickly and try to make the right dicision as how to react to it. We will rarely be able to be absolutely sure what will transpire in the following seconds/minutes after a situation begins to unfold.

What ever plans we may think we have made to react to various actions will most likely become worthless within seconds. That's usually the way it has always been with battle plans.

 

[Michigander]

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If a gunpoint citizens arrest was attempted, and he tried to shoot the person doing the arrest, it's pretty easy to imagine there would be no charges filed. Beyond that, I don't know.

 

[deepdiver]

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There are many IFs in that scenario. Besides the basic matter of being justified to shoot the shooter (which in MO would most likely be legal as long as the shooter remained an imminent danger to you and/or others) is that a dark theater is a HORRIBLE place to get into a defensive gun fight.

For instance, depending where you are there are seriously bad options about shooting in any direction. If you are towards the rear shooting toward the front the lighting is in your favor to pick out the BG but the angle of the shot puts innocents at serious risk. If you are towards the front and the BG is towards the back, while it is a better angle to not hit innocents accidentally, if he is in the middle you have bright light in your face and towards the sides he is in dark shadow.

So, there you are concentrating on a movie, trying to ignore any nearby disturbance and just watch the movie when suddenly shots ring out. Is it from the movie or the speakers? Oh from inside the theater itself! Reach towards your sidearm while scanning to find the threat. But people nearby heard it, saw it and someone screams and starts pushing to get away. And you are not there alone probably. You are there with your g/f, wife, maybe your children, friends, and they are all at risk. Where are you, where are the exits, who is closer the BG, you or your loved ones?

My guess is that for 95% of us on this forum that the reality is by the time we figure out what has happened, who it has happened to and how to protect ourselves and our companions that it is all over, unless it happens rather close to you in the first place, happens to the front of you or starts loud enough to have already drawn your attention. All of which is why, besides paying $8 per ticket so some actor can make $20 mil for 9 months work and obscene amounts for concession snacks and the screens getting smaller and smaller, we generally opt to watch a movie on big TV at home.