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The basis of Open Carry - The LAW

MilProGuy

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Jul 7, 2011
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Mississippi
Thanks to all on this thread who have given my your insights, opinions, and interpretations of the open carry "issue" in the state of Mississippi.

I have appreciated learning from you folks, and believe I am informed enough as to make a decision as to whether or not I will open carry.
 

bigun220

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Apr 24, 2011
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Location
Soso, MS
Thanks to all on this thread who have given my your insights, opinions, and interpretations of the open carry "issue" in the state of Mississippi.

I have appreciated learning from you folks, and believe I am informed enough as to make a decision as to whether or not I will open carry.
If you're a big guy, you could carry like I do. I carry my ruger p89 in a fobus paddle holster concealed in part. I cover the exposed portion of my handgun and let the holster be visible below my shirt. No one really notices probably because it looks like a phone holster. Good luck carrying! :cool:
 

wrightme

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"...nothing in this section shall be construed to allow the open and unconcealed carry of any deadly weapon..."

Thank you for posting this section of the Mississippi Code. This is about as clear and definitive of an answer that anyone could hope for.

Guess I won't be open carrying a handgun anytime soon.

As to whether or not it is legal to openly carry a handgun in the State of Mississippi.

It is exactly that...an opinion. Folks offer their "interpretations" of existing firearm laws.
As to "opinion," opencarry.org does offer an opinion for each state. And, in the case of Mississippi, the opinion expressed by the website is that:
Mississippi is an open carry state and the state constitution appears to guarantee this right. Further, localities are generally preempted under state law from enacting local gun control ordnances that might restrict open carry. However, Miss. Code §§ 97-37-1 & § 45-9-101 operate together to ban carriage of a handgun "concealed in whole or in part" unless the carrier is inside a motor vehicle or possesses a License to Carry a Concealed Pistol or Revolver. As the Mississippi courts have said that a handgun in a holster is concealed in part, a License to Carry a Concealed Pistol or Revolver is required to openly carry a handgun in a holster in Mississippi.
So, according to the opinion of the site owners/researchers, Ms is a "permit-required" state. But, judging by the Ms Constitution, appeal should strike that down to "permitless-OC." In fact, IMHO, the referenced "Mississippi courts have said" seems to support a view of legislative power where such power is denied by the MS Constitution.


The totality should indicate that the MS legislature cannot regulate anything except concealment. A Court opinion claiming that "a handgun in a holster is concealed in part" should place the statute in direct violation of the MS Constitution.
 

MSRebel54

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Northern Mississippi, ,
Does no one in MS. understand the relationship of the constitution to the SUBORDINATE statutes enacted by the legislature? It doesn't MATTER what "in part" means because "in part" can NEVER mean ANYTHING that would call a citizens right to bear OPENLY "in question".

Yes we do Georg. It's not US that have a problem understanding it. It's the LEO's. Another thing we understand is, how it feels to be wearing those silver bracelets behind your back while sitting in the back of a black and white.

If I had unlimited funds, I'd happily be the first to take it up the ladder. But protesting from the county jail, is not doing anyone much good. So, it's a balancing act for now.
 

georg jetson

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Yes we do Georg. It's not US that have a problem understanding it. It's the LEO's. Another thing we understand is, how it feels to be wearing those silver bracelets behind your back while sitting in the back of a black and white.

If I had unlimited funds, I'd happily be the first to take it up the ladder. But protesting from the county jail, is not doing anyone much good. So, it's a balancing act for now.

I've already explained that a civil lawsuit would take care of this... Quit with the "jail" thing... it doesn't have to happen. Stop using it as an excuse.

I see you guys are planning to get together up in North Ms. This is definitely a step in the right direction. Maybe ya'll can discuss the possibility of a filing a lawsuit while you're also applying pressure to your legislature for the necessary changes. Hopefully the get together will be a powerful motivational experience. It's helped us considerably here in La.
 
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MSRebel54

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I've already explained that a civil lawsuit would take care of this... Quit with the "jail" thing... it doesn't have to happen. Stop using it as an excuse.

I see you guys are planning to get together up in North Ms. This is definitely a step in the right direction. Maybe ya'll can discuss the possibility of a filing a lawsuit while you're also applying pressure to your legislature for the necessary changes. Hopefully the get together will be a powerful motivational experience. It's helped us considerably here in La.

Well, I hope it will be a productive meeting as well. Our legislature meets in January of each year, and it doesn't do much good to write them during the off time. Usually, as soon as they start introducing bills, I'm either encouraging them, and telling others, or writing them with my OPINION as to what is lacking, or just plain wrong with their bill. But I've never had OCDO to help in the endeavor before. I don't know if anyone has the means to bring a civil suit, but I'm sure it'll be mentioned.

I only mention the "jail" thing because, although less likely than more likely, it IS a distinct possibility if you go around open carrying. There are some LEO's in MS that just don't want to hear anything you say, and don't CARE what the law is. They think that if they tell you to stick your head in raw sewage, and you refuse, they have the right to arrest you, and sometimes do!:)

I understand that in LA. open carry is completely legal, and ya'll don't have the 'crossover' between OC and CC like we do in MS. That should make it much clearer to the LEO's, and I would guess less chance of being cuffed and stuffed simply for OC'ing. We've got a lot of work to do here in MS, but I would think the best, and permanent way to get it fixed, is to change the code, through the legislature and governor.
 

georg jetson

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Well, I hope it will be a productive meeting as well. Our legislature meets in January of each year, and it doesn't do much good to write them during the off time. Usually, as soon as they start introducing bills, I'm either encouraging them, and telling others, or writing them with my OPINION as to what is lacking, or just plain wrong with their bill. But I've never had OCDO to help in the endeavor before. I don't know if anyone has the means to bring a civil suit, but I'm sure it'll be mentioned.

I only mention the "jail" thing because, although less likely than more likely, it IS a distinct possibility if you go around open carrying. There are some LEO's in MS that just don't want to hear anything you say, and don't CARE what the law is. They think that if they tell you to stick your head in raw sewage, and you refuse, they have the right to arrest you, and sometimes do!:)

I understand that in LA. open carry is completely legal, and ya'll don't have the 'crossover' between OC and CC like we do in MS. That should make it much clearer to the LEO's, and I would guess less chance of being cuffed and stuffed simply for OC'ing. We've got a lot of work to do here in MS, but I would think the best, and permanent way to get it fixed, is to change the code, through the legislature and governor.

Clearer to the LEO's??? I think some of the residents of New Orleans would disagree with you. Ocing in La. is not wthout it's potentiol hazards.
 

Daylen

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Clearer to the LEO's??? I think some of the residents of New Orleans would disagree with you. Ocing in La. is not wthout it's potentiol hazards.

I expect Arizona is the only state, if any, where open carrying is a safe thing to do with no risk of illegal arrest. Taboo is a hard thing to break.
 

thearmysredneck

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Feb 9, 2009
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, ,
I've been OCing for over a month or so and have had one encounter with a.public servant doing do and on one other occasion I was seen and acknowledged by one with no questions or any thing posted both stories on my YouTube channel same name as on here of hall care.to hear the whole story. Both vids have Mississippi open carry as part of.the title
 

Daylen

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America

In KY the chance of an arrest is very small. We do have a few incidents of intimidation and harassment, but arrests are very rare. Arizona does have a better climate for OC on private property, but LEO here are generally up to speed.

Looking back I think I misspoke slightly. This would probably have been a better and more accurate statement: I expect Arizona is the only state, if any, where open carrying is a completely safe thing to do with no risk of harassment or illegal arrest. I have found MS, AL and LA to be fairly law abiding and have never been harassed, though I know of some localities in these states where others have not been so fortunate.
 

nosliwllib

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Jul 6, 2011
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Vancleave, MS
Mississippi Attorney General Opinion

This AG opinion was to answer Chief of police, Coumbus, MS questions:

Does Section 45–9–101 of the Mississippi Code allow a permit holder to carry a handgun unconcealed, ie, holster or does it allow only the carrying of a handgun concealed (not visible)?

Does Section 97–37–1 or any other State Statute allow for the unconcealed carrying of a handgun, ie, in a holster?

If, the carrying of a handgun unconcealed, as in a holster is prohibited, then by what section should a person be charged and what appropriate penalty would apply?

Link provided below: Answer was and continues to be "Clear as Mud"

http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/...&sskey=CLID_SSSA4947592016147&sv=Split&vr=2.0
 

Daylen

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This AG opinion was to answer Chief of police, Coumbus, MS questions:

Does Section 45–9–101 of the Mississippi Code allow a permit holder to carry a handgun unconcealed, ie, holster or does it allow only the carrying of a handgun concealed (not visible)?

Does Section 97–37–1 or any other State Statute allow for the unconcealed carrying of a handgun, ie, in a holster?

If, the carrying of a handgun unconcealed, as in a holster is prohibited, then by what section should a person be charged and what appropriate penalty would apply?

Link provided below: Answer was and continues to be "Clear as Mud"

http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/...&sskey=CLID_SSSA4947592016147&sv=Split&vr=2.0

Wrong, its very clear that openly carrying a firearm in MS is legal. Some have become confused as to what concealed means and if in fact concealed includes openly whereby everything is concealed :banghead:
The AG basically said, "open carry is legal and no permit is needed, but I'm not saying if carrying in a holster is open carry or concealed carry" (paraphrased summary). You should re read that AG opinion, but at least you know it exists. I'd cite it now but its on here somewhere and I'm feeling tired.

On Edit: oh and your link doesn't work :(
 
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nosliwllib

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Wrong, its very clear that openly carrying a firearm in MS is legal. Some have become confused as to what concealed means and if in fact concealed includes openly whereby everything is concealed :banghead:
The AG basically said, "open carry is legal and no permit is needed, but I'm not saying if carrying in a holster is open carry or concealed carry" (paraphrased summary). You should re read that AG opinion, but at least you know it exists. I'd cite it now but its on here somewhere and I'm feeling tired.

On Edit: oh and your link doesn't work :(


Hmm, sorry bout that here it is in entirety


Mr. Pete Bowen
1993 WL 669065
January 14, 1993




Term Best Section
1993 WL 669065 (Miss.A.G.)


Office of the Attorney General
State of Mississippi

January 14, 1993


Re: Concealed Weapons


Mr. Pete Bowen
Chief of Police
P.O. Box 1408
Columbus, MS 39703


Dear Chief Bowen:


Attorney General Mike Moore has received your letter and has assigned it to me for reply. A copy of your letter is attached for reference.

In your letter you ask about carrying concealed and unconcealed weapons and the law on the same.

The state law makes carrying certain weapons, including handguns, concealed in whole or part a crime. There are stated exceptions to this general statement, including in a motor vehicle, a person's home or business, which includes the property surrounding such home or business. See 97–37–1 of the Mississippi Code of 1972. There are also certain affirmative defenses to a charge of carrying a concealed weapon. See 97–37–9 of the Mississippi Code of 1972. Our law also allows two kinds of permits for carrying concealed weapons, one kind for security guards, bank guards, etc., section 97–37–7, and another kind for the general public, section 45–9–101.

If a handgun is not carried concealed in whole or part then it is not in violation of state law (there can be exceptions, for example section 97–37–17 for any illegal possession by a student on a campus or school grounds). Exactly what constitutes concealed in whole or part is largely a question of fact which we do not determine, and would depend on the facts of each case.
Very truly yours,

Mike Moore
Attorney General

By: Larry J. Stroud
Special Assistant Attorney General



Attachment


November 23, 1992

Mike Moore, Attorney General

Post Office Box 220

Jackson, Ms 39205

ref: Request for Attorney General Opinion


Dear Sir:

Does Section 45–9–101 of the Mississippi Code allow a permit holder to carry a handgun unconcealed, ie, holster or does it allow only the carrying of a handgun concealed (not visible)?

Does Section 97–37–1 or any other State Statute allow for the unconcealed carrying of a handgun, ie, in a holster?

If, the carrying of a handgun unconcealed, as in a holster is prohibited, then by what section should a person be charged and what appropriate penalty would apply?

Your quick response will be greatly appreciated. My mailing address is PO Box 1408, Columbus, Ms 39703–1408.

Sincerely,

Pete Bowen
Chief of Police

1993 WL 669065 (Miss.A.G.)

END OF DOCUMENT


Term Best Section

© 2011 Thomson Reuters. No Claim to Orig. U.S. Govt. Works.

http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/...sskey=CLID_SSSA72410584914157&sv=Split&vr=2.0
 

DeputySheriff

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Jan 28, 2011
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Mississippi
If a handgun is not carried concealed in whole or part then it is not in violation of state law (there can be exceptions, for example section 97–37–17 for any illegal possession by a student on a campus or school grounds). Exactly what constitutes concealed in whole or part is largely a question of fact which we do not determine, and would depend on the facts of each case.

One reason for the last sentence is this, take a look at these guns and you tell me if they would be considered concealed or not even if they were carried openly. Especially the 1911. https://publicintelligence.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/toygun.png

Me as a law enforcement officer would consider them concealed because many people would consider it a toy, an error that could very well cost them their life. Someone carry a handgun like this, either concealed or openly and they had better have a f*****g permit or I have some nice shiny bracelets for them and I promise they are not toys! I have a feeling most here will agree.
 

wrightme

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One reason for the last sentence is this, take a look at these guns and you tell me if they would be considered concealed or not even if they were carried openly. Especially the 1911. https://publicintelligence.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/toygun.png

Me as a law enforcement officer would consider them concealed because many people would consider it a toy, an error that could very well cost them their life. Someone carry a handgun like this, either concealed or openly and they had better have a f*****g permit or I have some nice shiny bracelets for them and I promise they are not toys! I have a feeling most here will agree.

Um, that's silly.


Not the firearms, your statements.

You clearly show a website image that clearly identifies them as real guns, then you falsely claim they would be concealed. Yet you clearly KNOW that the are not toys. Why the threat?

The ONLY one of those that might "misidentify" as a toy is the 1911.
 
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Daylen

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America
Um, that's silly.


Not the firearms, your statements.

Not sure that is very fair. Pink firearms are concealed in hideousness :p

In all seriousness the firearms shown I'd have a problem with being considered concealed, but I've heard of people painting firearms in the pattern of airsoft and other nonfirearms. Disguising a firearm as a nonfirearm has the same effect as concealment. I'm all about the MS constitution and strict interpretations, but that is an area that seems gray to me. What about pen guns, and guns disguised as suitcases, though not concealed they are not readily identifiable as a firearm and this gives the same effect as concealment. If we didn't have the section allowing for the regulation and prohibition of concealed weapons it would be entirely different (constitutional carry, yeha!), but as it is I'm not convinced such items would be beyond the government's authority. On the other hand I'm not convinced it is in the government's authority to regulate. Hopefully, this will not be an issue for MS, I'd rather fix other open carry problems.
 

wrightme

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Not sure that is very fair. Pink firearms are concealed in hideousness :p

In all seriousness the firearms shown I'd have a problem with being considered concealed, but I've heard of people painting firearms in the pattern of airsoft and other nonfirearms. Disguising a firearm as a nonfirearm has the same effect as concealment. I'm all about the MS constitution and strict interpretations, but that is an area that seems gray to me. What about pen guns, and guns disguised as suitcases, though not concealed they are not readily identifiable as a firearm and this gives the same effect as concealment. If we didn't have the section allowing for the regulation and prohibition of concealed weapons it would be entirely different (constitutional carry, yeha!), but as it is I'm not convinced such items would be beyond the government's authority. On the other hand I'm not convinced it is in the government's authority to regulate. Hopefully, this will not be an issue for MS, I'd rather fix other open carry problems.

Disguising, yes. But, airsoft and toy guns have orange on the muzzle only. I sure do NOT see how the examples presented could "many people would consider it a toy, an error that could very well cost them their life". What difference that makes when it is in a holster on a belt of the owner is simply beyond me.

Now, if it were painted with an orange muzzle to make it look like an airsoft or other toy......
Pen guns are disguised, as are suitcase/briefcase guns. Those ARE concealed and not readily identifiable as firearms. Those in the examples aren't only readily identifiable as firearms, they have been clearly identified as such by the LE who threatens to arrest someone for carrying a firearm that is readily identifiable as one by himself!
 

Daylen

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Disguising, yes. But, airsoft and toy guns have orange on the muzzle only. I sure do NOT see how the examples presented could "many people would consider it a toy, an error that could very well cost them their life". What difference that makes when it is in a holster on a belt of the owner is simply beyond me.

Now, if it were painted with an orange muzzle to make it look like an airsoft or other toy......
Pen guns are disguised, as are suitcase/briefcase guns. Those ARE concealed and not readily identifiable as firearms. Those in the examples aren't only readily identifiable as firearms, they have been clearly identified as such by the LE who threatens to arrest someone for carrying a firearm that is readily identifiable as one by himself!

I gave him the benefit of the doubt and figured he was going for disguised guns and could only find weak examples of it. Not everyone's googlefoo is perfect. DeputySheriff has usually held constitutional positions on here and I like to think he would not arrest a woman for liking pink so much she bought a pink gun (no matter how much it hurts me) or arrest someone for simply having horrible taste in color schemes (even if it does defile such a wonderful 1911). So I chose to assume he was simply bringing up the point of disguised firearms since the title of the for official use only document was toygun.
 
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