HankT
State Researcher
imported post
Starting to look like a Cho Seung-Hui type of shooting...
Maybe.
Starting to look like a Cho Seung-Hui type of shooting...
Maybe.
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Shooting on Ft. Hood!!!
- Thread starter Gator5713
- Start date
KBCraig
Regular Member
imported post
More gun-free zone murder. :cuss:
And yes, I have loved one stationed at Hood. They're all fine.
More gun-free zone murder. :cuss:
And yes, I have loved one stationed at Hood. They're all fine.
BJA
Campaign Veteran
imported post
My condolences go out to those who were shot and their families.
Why aren't the news agencies asking why the F** weren't our troops carrying a gun at least a goddam sidearm!? Instead its always about the shooter, the shooters guns and the body count........nothing more.......
My condolences go out to those who were shot and their families.
Why aren't the news agencies asking why the F** weren't our troops carrying a gun at least a goddam sidearm!? Instead its always about the shooter, the shooters guns and the body count........nothing more.......
N6ATF
Banned
imported post
BJA wrote:
Once again we see the tragic result of when only criminals and police can have guns.
BJA wrote:
Part of a larger problem, the government disrespecting everyones lives as not worth defending. Disarm law-abiding civilians, disarm the military, don't let them defend the borders and ports, don't let them defend themselves on their own bases, don't give them enough to try to stay alive when deployed. If the UCMJ does not allow a basic level of trust (barring proof of guilt) and personally owned firearms to be carried in lieu of gov issue weapons not being available, then why should anyone ever be allowed to?
Once again we see the tragic result of when only criminals and police can have guns.
suntzu
Regular Member
imported post
my condolences go out to the families of those affected by this as well. It is sad to see something like this happen, and yet we must have these risks if we want to live in a free society. I fear that in the coming days there will be more calls for gun control over this--news organizations have already been stressing that the firearms used were "semi-automatics"....
what I would like to know--allegedly there were civilian police from nearby jurisdictions on Ft. Hood to deal with the shooter...
(1) why was civilian police allowed to conduct law enforcement on a military reservation--considering they have no authority once on the base.
(2) is the Army incapable of handling it's own affairs--This is NOT a slap at the Army, but a legitimate question.
(3) How did the police, if local police were on the base--how did they get on the base considering it was locked down.
It seems to me that the Army should be more than capable of handling something like this--I mean they are the United States Army.
my condolences go out to the families of those affected by this as well. It is sad to see something like this happen, and yet we must have these risks if we want to live in a free society. I fear that in the coming days there will be more calls for gun control over this--news organizations have already been stressing that the firearms used were "semi-automatics"....
what I would like to know--allegedly there were civilian police from nearby jurisdictions on Ft. Hood to deal with the shooter...
(1) why was civilian police allowed to conduct law enforcement on a military reservation--considering they have no authority once on the base.
(2) is the Army incapable of handling it's own affairs--This is NOT a slap at the Army, but a legitimate question.
(3) How did the police, if local police were on the base--how did they get on the base considering it was locked down.
It seems to me that the Army should be more than capable of handling something like this--I mean they are the United States Army.
dlofton
Regular Member
imported post
(1) why was civilian police allowed to conduct law enforcement on a military reservation--considering they have no authority once on the base.
ANSWER: She is a corporal for the Fort Hood Police Department. The FHPD is a federal law enforcement agency (GS Series 0083) that provides patrol response on Fort Hood. She DOES IN FACT have authority on the military base because she is a federal law enforcement officer and a GS employee
(2) is the Army incapable of handling it's own affairs--This is NOT a slap at the Army, but a legitimate question.
NO, they can handle their own affairs, it is just MUCH cheaper to provide a full time federal law enforcement agency to provide security because the military benefits that would have to be paid would cost much more.
(3) How did the police, if local police were on the base--how did they get on the base considering it was locked down.
We (yes, I am a retired federal military police officer (Captain)) have a "status of forces" agreement with with the local police departments. I am a civilian police officer in TX and we can assist federal agencies....even on a military base...at the request of the local commander. It is legal. NOW, it would NOT BE LEGAL for the local police to request military assistance because of posse commitatus.
It seems to me that the Army should be more than capable of handling something like this--I mean they are the United States Army.
yes, it is the Army, but Fort Hood is a training base and contrary to popular belief, not all soldiers are armed 24 hours a day. And just so you know, if they would have been armed they would have had to carry their arms openly because of the Geneva Conventions.
David (retired military and federal police officer) and now deputy constable.
(1) why was civilian police allowed to conduct law enforcement on a military reservation--considering they have no authority once on the base.
ANSWER: She is a corporal for the Fort Hood Police Department. The FHPD is a federal law enforcement agency (GS Series 0083) that provides patrol response on Fort Hood. She DOES IN FACT have authority on the military base because she is a federal law enforcement officer and a GS employee
(2) is the Army incapable of handling it's own affairs--This is NOT a slap at the Army, but a legitimate question.
NO, they can handle their own affairs, it is just MUCH cheaper to provide a full time federal law enforcement agency to provide security because the military benefits that would have to be paid would cost much more.
(3) How did the police, if local police were on the base--how did they get on the base considering it was locked down.
We (yes, I am a retired federal military police officer (Captain)) have a "status of forces" agreement with with the local police departments. I am a civilian police officer in TX and we can assist federal agencies....even on a military base...at the request of the local commander. It is legal. NOW, it would NOT BE LEGAL for the local police to request military assistance because of posse commitatus.
It seems to me that the Army should be more than capable of handling something like this--I mean they are the United States Army.
yes, it is the Army, but Fort Hood is a training base and contrary to popular belief, not all soldiers are armed 24 hours a day. And just so you know, if they would have been armed they would have had to carry their arms openly because of the Geneva Conventions.
David (retired military and federal police officer) and now deputy constable.
suntzu
Regular Member
imported post
dlofton wrote:
Status of forces agreements generally include reciprocity--such as what happened in Alabama when MPs from Ft. Rucker showed up in city of Samson, Alabama in March of this year after a spree killing there. They violated posse Comitatus--but that is not the argument here. I would say that such status agreements generally include reciprocity, and when it is between the military and the civilian government--neither should IMO be allowed into the business of the other in situations like this--unless Posse Comitatus has been suspended and the military is in control.
As for soldiers being armed 24/7--that would not be a bad thing IMO.
As for carrying arms openly due to the Geneva Conventions--I'm all for that too.
dlofton wrote:
I knew about the Dept of Army Police, but it was the "local" civilian police that I simply think have no business on a federal military reservation--IMO.
Status of forces agreements generally include reciprocity--such as what happened in Alabama when MPs from Ft. Rucker showed up in city of Samson, Alabama in March of this year after a spree killing there. They violated posse Comitatus--but that is not the argument here. I would say that such status agreements generally include reciprocity, and when it is between the military and the civilian government--neither should IMO be allowed into the business of the other in situations like this--unless Posse Comitatus has been suspended and the military is in control.
As for soldiers being armed 24/7--that would not be a bad thing IMO.
As for carrying arms openly due to the Geneva Conventions--I'm all for that too.
Streetbikerr6
Regular Member
imported post
Apparently this was a muslim radical who evenspoke to a local 7/11 owner/muslim a week before his attackthat he was not ok to be deployed toshoot other muslims. Check CNN if you don't believe me.
He was reported to be saying "Allah is great" as he was shooting Americans.
I don't know about all of you guys.. but that is a clear definition of a violent jihad. There isno other way to describe it.. well there is.. Stupid news media are trying to describe it as a "troubled man who happened to get his hands on those terrible things called guns".
This was nothing short of a planned out jihad.
Apparently this was a muslim radical who evenspoke to a local 7/11 owner/muslim a week before his attackthat he was not ok to be deployed toshoot other muslims. Check CNN if you don't believe me.
He was reported to be saying "Allah is great" as he was shooting Americans.
I don't know about all of you guys.. but that is a clear definition of a violent jihad. There isno other way to describe it.. well there is.. Stupid news media are trying to describe it as a "troubled man who happened to get his hands on those terrible things called guns".
This was nothing short of a planned out jihad.
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
imported post
Hasan wasn'ta convert... he was born Muslim. In Virginia. He was wearin' his camelhumper get-up (according to Jihadwatch) when he opened up yellin' 'Allahu Akbar'. What's this assclown doin' as a Major in the US Army? How many others are there? Why?
Hasan wasn'ta convert... he was born Muslim. In Virginia. He was wearin' his camelhumper get-up (according to Jihadwatch) when he opened up yellin' 'Allahu Akbar'. What's this assclown doin' as a Major in the US Army? How many others are there? Why?
Streetbikerr6
Regular Member
imported post
BJA
Campaign Veteran
imported post
Well....was just watching CNN for a little while. They said "we have more informtaion on the guns used in the crime, one was a FN 5.7 that is also usedby mexican drug cartel members it isreffered to as a "cop killer" because it can penetrate police's body armorand a 357 magnum." Not exactly what they said but thatsbasically it. Does it F'n matter what type of gun he used??Honestly? O just them creating more fear of guns.... those dam cop killing special guns too!!:banghead: Can anyone suggest a new news agency that actually knows a goddam thing about guns??? Seriously I'm getting sick of this, I remember columbine. I was 9 or 10 when columbine happened and watched the news, I thought until I became a gun activist and did sum research that the kids at columbine must have had some real firepower. No..... just a couple of semi-auto 9mm's and 12 guages..... I'm sick of this sh*t just report on what you know about the story not the dam guns to spread fear!
Well....was just watching CNN for a little while. They said "we have more informtaion on the guns used in the crime, one was a FN 5.7 that is also usedby mexican drug cartel members it isreffered to as a "cop killer" because it can penetrate police's body armorand a 357 magnum." Not exactly what they said but thatsbasically it. Does it F'n matter what type of gun he used??Honestly? O just them creating more fear of guns.... those dam cop killing special guns too!!:banghead: Can anyone suggest a new news agency that actually knows a goddam thing about guns??? Seriously I'm getting sick of this, I remember columbine. I was 9 or 10 when columbine happened and watched the news, I thought until I became a gun activist and did sum research that the kids at columbine must have had some real firepower. No..... just a couple of semi-auto 9mm's and 12 guages..... I'm sick of this sh*t just report on what you know about the story not the dam guns to spread fear!
Streetbikerr6
Regular Member
imported post
BJA wrote:
Right, focus on the story.. an islamic radical that declared a violent Jihad on U.S. soil. The last time an islamica radicalist declared a violent jihad on America was on 9/11.
Just because this @#$% didnt use a plane, the media are diverting any attention away from his motive to anything else.. such as the guns used.
BJA wrote:
Right, focus on the story.. an islamic radical that declared a violent Jihad on U.S. soil. The last time an islamica radicalist declared a violent jihad on America was on 9/11.
Just because this @#$% didnt use a plane, the media are diverting any attention away from his motive to anything else.. such as the guns used.
Gator5713
Lone Star Veteran
imported post
They talk about the gun used as if it was designed for nothing but evil, by evil people that have evil agendas, yadda yadda yadda.... And yet they say NOTHING of the fact that that round was developed to combat terrorists and is the new favorite round of the special forces and NATO!!!!
Nope, can't say any of that, just that its "Armor Piercing" and the Drug Cartels nicknamed it "Cop Killer"...
UGH!!!!! The 'media spin' SUCKS!
They talk about the gun used as if it was designed for nothing but evil, by evil people that have evil agendas, yadda yadda yadda.... And yet they say NOTHING of the fact that that round was developed to combat terrorists and is the new favorite round of the special forces and NATO!!!!
Nope, can't say any of that, just that its "Armor Piercing" and the Drug Cartels nicknamed it "Cop Killer"...
UGH!!!!! The 'media spin' SUCKS!
FMCDH
Regular Member
imported post
For the FN Herstal Five-Seven pistol to be even closely considered a "cop killer" it would have to have been loaded with the SS190 "duty round" that is specifically designed to penetrate body armor. The SS190 duty round is NOT available for purchase by the public however and is not readily available even to most military. The only standard loads that are available for purchase on the civilian market are the SS195LF and SS197SR rounds, which are hollow point and hunting rounds respectively. These rounds are NOT capable of penetrating even level 2A body armor, the basic minimum that ANY law enforcement agency in the US uses.
Labeling the FN 5.7 as a "cop killer" gun makes any publication look like idiots, as ANY firearm at all can be made into a "cop killer" by using the variety of armor penetrating ammo that is made in nearly every caliber known, but that is made and sold ONLY to military and law enforcement agencies in the United States.
While the FN 5.7 is indeed a high velocity round, it is in contrast a very low grain count bullet, being only about 1/4 of the bullet weight of a standard .45 ACP hollow point bullet.
The civilian legal 195 and 197 rounds have approximately the same stopping and penetrating power as a +P 9mm hollow point round.
For the FN Herstal Five-Seven pistol to be even closely considered a "cop killer" it would have to have been loaded with the SS190 "duty round" that is specifically designed to penetrate body armor. The SS190 duty round is NOT available for purchase by the public however and is not readily available even to most military. The only standard loads that are available for purchase on the civilian market are the SS195LF and SS197SR rounds, which are hollow point and hunting rounds respectively. These rounds are NOT capable of penetrating even level 2A body armor, the basic minimum that ANY law enforcement agency in the US uses.
Labeling the FN 5.7 as a "cop killer" gun makes any publication look like idiots, as ANY firearm at all can be made into a "cop killer" by using the variety of armor penetrating ammo that is made in nearly every caliber known, but that is made and sold ONLY to military and law enforcement agencies in the United States.
While the FN 5.7 is indeed a high velocity round, it is in contrast a very low grain count bullet, being only about 1/4 of the bullet weight of a standard .45 ACP hollow point bullet.
The civilian legal 195 and 197 rounds have approximately the same stopping and penetrating power as a +P 9mm hollow point round.
BJA
Campaign Veteran
imported post
look at this....... heres a CBS "investigative team report"...
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cop-killer-gun-thought-ft-hood-shooting/story?id=9019521
The gun thought to be used in the Fort Hood massacre packs so much firepower, it's known as 'the Cop Killer,' federal law enforcement officials said.
Nidal Hasan as a senior at William Fleming High School.(Courtesy William Fleming High School)
Major Nidal Malik Hasan allegedly packed a FN Herstal Five-seveN tactical pistol, which according to federal law enforcement officials, was legally purchased from the "Guns Galore" shop in Killeen, Texas in Aug. 2009. The store's manager, David Cheadle, said that particular firearm can hold 20 rounds in a standard clip and take a ten round clip extension. Cheadle said with one clip and one round in the chamber, one could fire 31 rounds before reloading.
Hasan may have used an expanded clip in the shooting.
On FN Herstal's webpage, the benefits of the Five-seveN pistol note that it can "defeat the enemy in all close combat situations in urban areas, jungle conditions, night missions and any self defense action."
And heres another one
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/tracking-source-gun-ft-hood-shooting/story?id=9014618
Federal agents, military investigators and Texas Rangers are investigating whether the gun used in the Fort Hood massacre was purchased at the "Guns Galore" shop in Killeen, Texas, according to the store co-manager.
"They called last night and asked about a specific name and gun purchase, but the name was not Hasan," said the manager who gave only his first name, Dave. He said he did not want to reveal the name for fear it would compromise the investigation.
Three investigators, including one wearing a Texas Rangers badge, were seen entering the store just before noon Friday. The manager said they were interviewing all of the store employees.
These people are pathetic
look at this....... heres a CBS "investigative team report"...
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cop-killer-gun-thought-ft-hood-shooting/story?id=9019521
The gun thought to be used in the Fort Hood massacre packs so much firepower, it's known as 'the Cop Killer,' federal law enforcement officials said.
Nidal Hasan as a senior at William Fleming High School.(Courtesy William Fleming High School)
Major Nidal Malik Hasan allegedly packed a FN Herstal Five-seveN tactical pistol, which according to federal law enforcement officials, was legally purchased from the "Guns Galore" shop in Killeen, Texas in Aug. 2009. The store's manager, David Cheadle, said that particular firearm can hold 20 rounds in a standard clip and take a ten round clip extension. Cheadle said with one clip and one round in the chamber, one could fire 31 rounds before reloading.
Hasan may have used an expanded clip in the shooting.
On FN Herstal's webpage, the benefits of the Five-seveN pistol note that it can "defeat the enemy in all close combat situations in urban areas, jungle conditions, night missions and any self defense action."
And heres another one
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/tracking-source-gun-ft-hood-shooting/story?id=9014618
Federal agents, military investigators and Texas Rangers are investigating whether the gun used in the Fort Hood massacre was purchased at the "Guns Galore" shop in Killeen, Texas, according to the store co-manager.
"They called last night and asked about a specific name and gun purchase, but the name was not Hasan," said the manager who gave only his first name, Dave. He said he did not want to reveal the name for fear it would compromise the investigation.
Three investigators, including one wearing a Texas Rangers badge, were seen entering the store just before noon Friday. The manager said they were interviewing all of the store employees.
These people are pathetic
mavue
Regular Member
imported post
BJA wrote:
gotta make news somehow.
totally agree with you.
BJA wrote:
look at this....... heres a CBS "investigative team report"...
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cop-killer-gun-thought-ft-hood-shooting/story?id=9019521
The gun thought to be used in the Fort Hood massacre packs so much firepower, it's known as 'the Cop Killer,' federal law enforcement officials said.
Nidal Hasan as a senior at William Fleming High School.(Courtesy William Fleming High School)
Major Nidal Malik Hasan allegedly packed a FN Herstal Five-seveN tactical pistol, which according to federal law enforcement officials, was legally purchased from the "Guns Galore" shop in Killeen, Texas in Aug. 2009. The store's manager, David Cheadle, said that particular firearm can hold 20 rounds in a standard clip and take a ten round clip extension. Cheadle said with one clip and one round in the chamber, one could fire 31 rounds before reloading.
Hasan may have used an expanded clip in the shooting.
On FN Herstal's webpage, the benefits of the Five-seveN pistol note that it can "defeat the enemy in all close combat situations in urban areas, jungle conditions, night missions and any self defense action."
And heres another one
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/tracking-source-gun-ft-hood-shooting/story?id=9014618
Federal agents, military investigators and Texas Rangers are investigating whether the gun used in the Fort Hood massacre was purchased at the "Guns Galore" shop in Killeen, Texas, according to the store co-manager.
"They called last night and asked about a specific name and gun purchase, but the name was not Hasan," said the manager who gave only his first name, Dave. He said he did not want to reveal the name for fear it would compromise the investigation.
Three investigators, including one wearing a Texas Rangers badge, were seen entering the store just before noon Friday. The manager said they were interviewing all of the store employees.
These people are pathetic
gotta make news somehow.
totally agree with you.
mavue
Regular Member
imported post
N6ATF wrote:
guns should be banned for law enforcement. i'm sure they'd be crying then.
N6ATF wrote:
guns should be banned for law enforcement. i'm sure they'd be crying then.
Streetbikerr6
Regular Member
imported post
I dont give a shit what was used to carry out this jihad attack, a plane, a bomb, a gun, a baseball bat. 12 people are dead because of a terrorist attack, and America has suddenly lost it's balls since 9/11 to declare a war on this type of terror.
Despicable
I dont give a shit what was used to carry out this jihad attack, a plane, a bomb, a gun, a baseball bat. 12 people are dead because of a terrorist attack, and America has suddenly lost it's balls since 9/11 to declare a war on this type of terror.
Despicable
TehGruu
Regular Member
imported post
Streetbikerr6 wrote:
Amen, brother.
-Gruu
Streetbikerr6 wrote:
Amen, brother.
-Gruu
N6ATF
Banned
imported post
Streetbikerr6 wrote:
Fighting domestic terrorism perpetrated by religious fanatic military officers of ours doesn't seem to be much of a war.
Streetbikerr6 wrote:
Sure you want America to declare a war on "this type of terror"? That war could very well mean exterminating anyone that has a gun.
Fighting domestic terrorism perpetrated by religious fanatic military officers of ours doesn't seem to be much of a war.