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Possibly moving to TX

qednick

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
499
Location
Bandera, TX
Comes as no surprise to me, I predicted it would happen. The fervor could only last so long. It may pick up again if the police misbehave enough, which is sad to say.

I'm making a prediction right now that if there is any misbehavin' it will be Austin PD. I try and avoid that place... even at least for the horrendous traffic! San Antonio PD may be "slightly" better though we shall see soon enough. At some point I'll probably OC down on the riverwalk and see how many times I get stopped for ID. Out of the "big four" I suspect Dallas/FW will be most accepting, but still nowhere near as accepting as the rural areas. Up here in the hill country I can't see it being an issue whatsoever. The town Marshall's and Sheriff's Depts. are extremely friendly and down-to-earth...even though they all seem to think I'm called "Bubba" :)
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
Get real.
I can assure you I'm a real person.

If you want to call it a de facto requirement, I could probably rescind my opposition to that. Perhaps I used the wrong verbiage in those statements, and perhaps "de facto requirement" is a fine description, since there could be actual consequences for not having it, whether lawful or unlawful. I still doubt any lawful consequences could come of it, but, alas, officer actions, prosecutor actions, and even court and jury actions, are unpredictable and not always in line with law. I believe it remains true that there is material difference between a "de facto requirement" and an actual legal requirement, and I believe it remains true that obfuscation of the difference is incredibly dangerous and careless.

I didn't want this to be a me vs. you back and forth, trying to prove each other wrong type scenario. I originally asked for a cite knowing one didn't exist, and fully expected you to simply clarify that the "requirement" wasn't explicitly made in any statute, but that if one wanted to avoid trouble resulting from GC 411.205 it was advisable to have a driver license or state ID. You continued to imply that it was required by statute to have a driver license or state ID on you while carrying a handgun and that you would be in violation of the law merely by not having it. If a person really wants to avoid taking a ride, they're probably best off getting a driver license or a state ID. I'll happily agree to that point. But I will not say that the act, in and of itself, of carrying a concealed handgun with a carry license and no driver license or state ID is illegal. It simply isn't.
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
One cannot exist without the other.

I started to reply to every line of your post, then decided it was irrelevant and that there was no need to snip at each other any more, but I'll reply to just this one thing since I believe it could actually be relevant.

The fact is one literally does exist without the other. You seem to be implying that the law cannot be illogical or inconsistent, while we know for a fact that is not true. We could probably all point out contradictions in the law, related to firearms and unrelated.

The code literally consists of what is passed by the legislature and signed by the governor. There is no magic that prevents stupid, illogical, inconsistent, or even impossible-to-comply-with code from being entered in the books.

The assumption that the law, which is man made, and often not even by good men, must necessarily be consistent and logical, is quite naive, and certainly false.
 

bushwacker

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
203
Location
pottsboro,texas
You should know that if you carry in TX with any state permit, if you get asked for your ID you must produce your permit and either a DL or equivalent state issued ID card (that they issue in lieu of a DL). If you do not have a DL or that state DL equivalent ID, you cannot legally carry under any permit in TX. I'm not arguing their right or lack of right to stop you, but in the category of "you won't beat the ride" you would likely be arrested for unlawful carry of a firearm especially since before you carry in TX you were required to know that law. Just saying that your problem would be a whole lot bigger than arguing whether they have the right to demand that ID.

Added: Just so that this conversation here doesn't go badly, please note the forum rule about not advocating breaking the law (for example, by saying that you would carry without the required by law ID).

ok just for discussion purposes lets say that you are walking and an officer comes up to you (saying he got a call or something) now he wants to see ID and permit .... you are not being stopped for any infraction of the law such as traffic stop and as for as I know) Hb 915 doesn't say they can't stop you just for permit check but it doesn't say anywhere that they can also. now we have seen folks walking with rifles on them,get stopped and refuse to present id then still get to walk , so why should this be any different? ....I am guessing it's the trap of permits that puts the spin on it. I am glad we are getting open carry ( very glad) but I feel that we have more work to be done till there is no more choosing between the evils of giving up my rights and walk or exercise my rights and suffer the evils of refusing
 

nonameisgood

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
1,008
Location
Big D
Texas law has never made long gun open carry illegal. Handgun carry has been illegal since 1870 (we have the honor of being the FIRST state to outlaw the carry of handguns.) The CC (and OC as of Jan 1) rules make carry legal with a CHL. The majority view is that because of this, an officer can randomly or non-randomly check for a CHL (the reasoning being that carry is illegal by default.)
I am not ready to concede this, so I am not very popular here right now. It seems to me that my carry is legal because I have a CHL (the law says that), and I have reason to expect to not be hassled just because others might be carrying illegally.


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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Texas law has never made long gun open carry illegal. Handgun carry has been illegal since 1870 (we have the honor of being the FIRST state to outlaw the carry of handguns.) The CC (and OC as of Jan 1) rules make carry legal with a CHL. The majority view is that because of this, an officer can randomly or non-randomly check for a CHL (the reasoning being that carry is illegal by default.)
I am not ready to concede this, so I am not very popular here right now. It seems to me that my carry is legal because I have a CHL (the law says that), and I have reason to expect to not be hassled just because others might be carrying illegally.

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i hope your expectations are met, however, think you will be sorely disappointed after Jan 1 with the expectations the nice LEs believe they are going to do.

ipse
 

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
i hope your expectations are met, however, think you will be sorely disappointed after Jan 1 with the expectations the nice LEs believe they are going to do.

ipse

I look forward to some activism. And hopefully have regular meetups and scheduled Open Carry walks. From what I see there is no Copblock in San Antonio where I want to be so I will start and run one of those as well. Question is whether Texas is ready for me? :p
 

qednick

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
499
Location
Bandera, TX
I look forward to some activism. And hopefully have regular meetups and scheduled Open Carry walks. From what I see there is no Copblock in San Antonio where I want to be so I will start and run one of those as well. Question is whether Texas is ready for me? :p

If we had many more people like you to begin with, we would likely have had OC long ago. Texas is home to four of the largest cities in the nation... with large cities comes large numbers of hoplophobic mamby pamby bed wetters. We just need to change their tune by OC'ing as much as possible so it can be normalized.
 

nonameisgood

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
1,008
Location
Big D
Just to be clear, Texans really don't like outsiders coming in and "telling us how to do things". We are bootstrappers. After all, we did show everyone else how to outlaw carry ;-)
Just don't be surprised if the welcome mat isn't exactly rolled out.


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rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
If we had many more people like you to begin with, we would likely have had OC long ago. Texas is home to four of the largest cities in the nation... with large cities comes large numbers of hoplophobic mamby pamby bed wetters. We just need to change their tune by OC'ing as much as possible so it can be normalized.

Just to be clear, Texans really don't like outsiders coming in and "telling us how to do things". We are bootstrappers. After all, we did show everyone else how to outlaw carry ;-)
Just don't be surprised if the welcome mat isn't exactly rolled out.


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Well if y'all reckon you did that, whatever happened? I'd have just taken no notice of the so-called law and exercised and defended my rights as I pleased.


Oh and don't no-one spout rule 15 at me. I didnt tell nobody to do it. I shouldnt need to and if people don't get it, there isnt much help for them :p
 

nonameisgood

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
1,008
Location
Big D
Three things happened here in about 1870. First, the carpetbaggers were coming in from the north and the freedmen were around and carrying, both of which represented a threat to white Texas. Second, the Texas governor was beaten in election and refused to give up the office, physically. And then there was a case in Dallas where an officer was shot under questionable circumstance - apparently there was an issue being made about a guy carrying a gun, police harassment, and some other unclear dealings.
We decided to become cosmopolitan before cosmopolitan was cool.


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rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
Three things happened here in about 1870. First, the carpetbaggers were coming in from the north and the freedmen were around and carrying, both of which represented a threat to white Texas. Second, the Texas governor was beaten in election and refused to give up the office, physically. And then there was a case in Dallas where an officer was shot under questionable circumstance - apparently there was an issue being made about a guy carrying a gun, police harassment, and some other unclear dealings.
We decided to become cosmopolitan before cosmopolitan was cool.


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I've heard from a friend down there, people are flocking to the state from the north. Can't say I blame them as long as they adapt to the way of life down there and respect the culture.
 

nonameisgood

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
1,008
Location
Big D
I've heard from a friend down there, people are flocking to the state from the north. Can't say I blame them as long as they adapt to the way of life down there and respect the culture.

We are growing at about one million souls a year. Half by birth, half by migration.
The problem we have is that they do not respect the culture. I'm all for change, when it is for the better, but some bring their bad habits with them.
Some want to turn us "progressive" which usually means "you are inadequate and backwards, let us show you the light." Some want to turn this into their own little enclave of whatever. Nearly gone is the courtesy of smiling and saying "howdy", letting people merge on the highway, and helping those in need of help. Chivalry is disappearing and respect for others takes a back seat to self interest in the cities.
Austin has long had the saying "keep Austin weird", but Texas weird is NOT California weird. Austinites report that Prius owners occasionally key SUVs and pickups. Texas has long observed the live-and-let-live philosophy, which is being replaced by "we know best".
Do I sound bitter? As a native, who opens doors for women, allows cars to merge, and tries to be friendly and courteous, I am doing my part. Which means trying to not be judgmental or rude to outsiders, which means the less observant don't get it. Oh well.


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rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
We are growing at about one million souls a year. Half by birth, half by migration.
The problem we have is that they do not respect the culture. I'm all for change, when it is for the better, but some bring their bad habits with them.
Some want to turn us "progressive" which usually means "you are inadequate and backwards, let us show you the light." Some want to turn this into their own little enclave of whatever. Nearly gone is the courtesy of smiling and saying "howdy", letting people merge on the highway, and helping those in need of help. Chivalry is disappearing and respect for others takes a back seat to self interest in the cities.
Austin has long had the saying "keep Austin weird", but Texas weird is NOT California weird. Austinites report that Prius owners occasionally key SUVs and pickups. Texas has long observed the live-and-let-live philosophy, which is being replaced by "we know best".
Do I sound bitter? As a native, who opens doors for women, allows cars to merge, and tries to be friendly and courteous, I am doing my part. Which means trying to not be judgmental or rude to outsiders, which means the less observant don't get it. Oh well.


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They must be convinced to somehow. Informed of the way things are done there and what is accepted and what isnt. I'm so old fashioned, i'd be going to a traditional old fashioned church where the ladies have never even owned a pair of pants and actually use words like Sir, Ma'am, Miss etc. To my mind thats just common decency.
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
We are growing at about one million souls a year. Half by birth, half by migration.
The problem we have is that they do not respect the culture. I'm all for change, when it is for the better, but some bring their bad habits with them.
Some want to turn us "progressive" which usually means "you are inadequate and backwards, let us show you the light." Some want to turn this into their own little enclave of whatever. Nearly gone is the courtesy of smiling and saying "howdy", letting people merge on the highway, and helping those in need of help. Chivalry is disappearing and respect for others takes a back seat to self interest in the cities.
Austin has long had the saying "keep Austin weird", but Texas weird is NOT California weird. Austinites report that Prius owners occasionally key SUVs and pickups. Texas has long observed the live-and-let-live philosophy, which is being replaced by "we know best".
Do I sound bitter? As a native, who opens doors for women, allows cars to merge, and tries to be friendly and courteous, I am doing my part. Which means trying to not be judgmental or rude to outsiders, which means the less observant don't get it. Oh well.


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I kinda like the way this blogger sums it up... http://ecodiscoverytour.blogspot.com/2010/04/texas-two-finger.html
 

nonameisgood

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
1,008
Location
Big D
They must be convinced to somehow. Informed of the way things are done there and what is accepted and what isnt. I'm so old fashioned, i'd be going to a traditional old fashioned church where the ladies have never even owned a pair of pants and actually use words like Sir, Ma'am, Miss etc. To my mind thats just common decency.

Texas women have to wear pants because they take care of business THEN dress up (or down) as appropriate. Church is optional.


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rightwinglibertarian

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Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
Texas women have to wear pants because they take care of business THEN dress up (or down) as appropriate. Church is optional.


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clearly. The only thing I would force is the respect of the Constitution. That isnt optional. Or if people can't respect it, be quiet as their opinion is not welcome or needed
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
clearly. The only thing I would force is the respect of the Constitution. That isnt optional. Or if people can't respect it, be quiet as their opinion is not welcome or needed

I'd have more respect for the Texas constitution if it hadn't been screwed up immediately following the civil war, but I guess you probably mean the federal constitution. I'd respect the federal constitution more if it were the articles of confederation ;) I'm just kidding, of course, I get what you mean
 
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