Open Carry Old West Style

[WalkingWolf]

LAC do not attempt to apprehend bank robbers, or investigate suspicious vehicles. Maybe if we could have some cites of LAC involved in double digit ammo firefights with bad guys.

I'll have to dig but seems to me a LAC OCer stopped a armed robbery, where a clerk was shot, with a (gasp) SA revolver. I think it happened in Virginia.

 

[got_heat]

SAs were doing the job LONG before any of the others came around.

BTW, had the ole hog leg on last night at the Wal~Mart in Fountain!

 

[davidmcbeth]

It only takes one shot to kill a bear. Ask the two that tried to eat my dog.

Sure it was not a cop in disguise? :uhoh:

 

[saiga12boy]

It's nice to see that I'm not the only person around here who likes to carry classic guns. I'd have a meet and greet/target pistol shoot out at my place if I didn't live out here in the middle of nowhere.

As far as needing more rounds, I personally couldn't care less if someone wants to have lots of firepower. More power to you, literally. I just don't feel the need for it, myself. Plus, I like the feel of a good old SA revolver, much for the same reason I wear a jean jacket and my old beat up golf cap. Feels good...

I have friends in archuleta county who are into guns if you want to set something up. Also did you hear that archuleta county passed a resoltuion stating they won't follow the new gun laws. Also constitutional carry and other non-gun related good laws will be coming to the county.

 

[Yooper]

Experiences of LEOs do not bear much weight on what non-LEOs are likely to encounter. You could probably drop two orders of magnitude for us.

The point is not everyone stops when they've been shot multiple times. I agree with you, it's not likely to happen, but it can happen.

I remember an article in a gun magazine years ago (prior to the '94 AWB going into effect), where some campers ended up in a gun fight with some bad guys (had claimed to be lost, but came back later to rob or kill them).
Fortunately the campers had their "assault rifles" with them, and had several "high-cap" mags loaded. I don't remember what happened to the bad guys, if they were killed, wounded, or eventually apprehended by the campers, but they had said in the article that if it wasn't for the "high cap" mags, they probably would have been dead because they would have ran out of ammo.

 

[skidmark]

Carry a 2" barrel S&W 625 with two additional moon clips - mostly to counterbalance the weight.

Jerry has no fears of me beating (or even coming close to) his reload times, but I'm pretty much even with the bottom feeders doing a mag change.

I don't normally go where the need to put a lot of lead downrange is the defining characteristic of the locale. Basically, if 6 are not enough I can try for 12. If 12 are not enough I'm going to be screwed so ought to save the last one for myself.

Folks seem to think that a fat old gimpy dude with a revolver knows what he is doing. Who am I to correct them?

Most importantly, I like carrying a revolver.

The reason I do not use a western rig is because I'm in my wheelchair a lot - those rigs do not work so well from the seated position when you have arms instead of miles of open range at your elbows. Basic OWB holsters do the job for me. (For folks in chairs doing IDPA/IPSIC - remember to claim your compensation points for rolling backwards - everybody else gets to stay at the same distance through a stage while we can have it change on us.)

stay safe.

 

[fighting_for_freedom]

Ever try a shoulder holster, Skidmark? I sometimes carry my 1911 or my SA Uberti in my shoulder holster. First couple of times are kinda uncomfortable, but you get used to it. I'd always carry in my shoulder holster if the weather didn't demand a coat so much around here.

 

[since9]

Well, since the thread on ocing a Ruger .44 Blackhawk got locked...

I used to carry a Ruger Super Redhawk (.44) in a hip holster with a leg tie.

I have a Colt 1851 Navy (replica) with a leather holster I sometimes carry downtown.

In addition to that, I still don't understand why some people feel the need to arm themselves as if they might suddenly encounter a ninja army. I mean, six is plenty, twelve is a lot, and when you have a modern semi, with two, three, or more additional magazines, you're starting to be paranoid about an impending zombie apocalypse.

Wrong, wrong-wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong. Even in the Old West most armed men would carry a six-shooter, extra cartridges in his belt, and a rifle. These days, you're as likely to encounter a mob as a lone gunman, and six is cutting things two close for just two people out in the open. Add cover and more people, you're looking at 30 rounds, minimum.

Not for a "zombie apocalypse," but simply for an unavoidable and heated exchange with multiple bogeys (bad guys).

 

[OldCurlyWolf]

I used to carry a Ruger Super Redhawk (.44) in a hip holster with a leg tie.

I have a Colt 1851 Navy (replica) with a leather holster I sometimes carry downtown.



Wrong, wrong-wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong. Even in the Old West most armed men would carry a six-shooter, extra cartridges in his belt, and a rifle. These days, you're as likely to encounter a mob as a lone gunman, and six is cutting things two close for just two people out in the open. Add cover and more people, you're looking at 30 rounds, minimum.

Not for a "zombie apocalypse," but simply for an unavoidable and heated exchange with multiple bogeys (bad guys).

My standard is a Delta Elite in Condition ONE and two extra mags. With a .40 S&W in my vehicle, also in condition One and two extra mags. This gives me a total of 56 rounds available without breaking into the 200 plus rounds I usually have available not in mags.

 

[Capn Camo]

"In addition to that, I still don't understand why some people feel the need to arm themselves as if they might suddenly encounter a ninja army. I mean, six is plenty, twelve is a lot, and when you have a modern semi, with two, three, or more additional magazines, you're starting to be paranoid about an impending zombie apocalypse."

I think thats referred to as 'argumentum reductum ad absurdum' or something liek that. Cant answer, so you go wildly off into inventing a hysterical alternative, which is also an ad hominem (personal attacK)

If you cant figure it out, youre hopeless.

Your first problem is a superiority complex, that everyone but you is wrong.

I carry upwards of 30 rounds in 3 tactical loads, from rattlesnake shot loads to +Ps.

Instead of attacking others, try some education.

Carry two 10 round mags and lose one. Thats loss of half your capacity

 

[SteveInCO]

The snarkier version of this is: You can never have too much ammo unless you are swimming or on fire.

 

[fighting_for_freedom]

"In addition to that, I still don't understand why some people feel the need to arm themselves as if they might suddenly encounter a ninja army. I mean, six is plenty, twelve is a lot, and when you have a modern semi, with two, three, or more additional magazines, you're starting to be paranoid about an impending zombie apocalypse."

I think thats referred to as 'argumentum reductum ad absurdum' or something liek that. Cant answer, so you go wildly off into inventing a hysterical alternative, which is also an ad hominem (personal attacK)

If you cant figure it out, youre hopeless.

Your first problem is a superiority complex, that everyone but you is wrong.

I carry upwards of 30 rounds in 3 tactical loads, from rattlesnake shot loads to +Ps.

Instead of attacking others, try some education.

Carry two 10 round mags and lose one. Thats loss of half your capacity

I, personally, find your entire post to be a personal attack (ad hominem - I find the use of Latin to be indicicative of a superiority complex).

You obviously didn't read my entire post, nor any of the rest of the thread. I believe I made it clear (I suppose not clear enough) that I not only OWN modern guns with gobs of ammunition, but have no problem with people CARRYING multiple guns with gobs of ammunition. I simply stated I saw no need for it, and found it absurd, in my personal opinion.

I started this thread, after reading post after post after post after post, all over this forum, of modern-gun-owners criticizing and mocking those of us who carry wheel-guns for political/personal/simplybecausewelikethegun reasons. Sure, I had a little rant there. So, I started this thread with the intent of engaging people like myself, with a love of classic firearms, who might feel the same as I do. You, senor, were the kind I was attempting to avoid.

Let's look at this another way. Would it not be paranoid if a person refused to drive their car without an engine hoist, ball joint press, brake lathe, assorted wrenches and sockets, cylinder hone, screwdrivers, jumper pack, electrical tester, and a valve grinder? Sure it would. Would you be ready for any mechanical eventuality? Most likely. Is it necessary? Depends on your point of view. Is having a pair of jumper cables and a jack in your car paranoid? Not really. You're just being prepared for the most common vehicular failures. Would you be safer with more stuff? Not really, if an accident is going to happen, it'll happen either way. What transpires afterwards is incidental. Either way, I don't give a damn, because I'm only responsible for myself. Personally, I carry a few small tools in my car, as I am a mechanic and can fix a lot of stuff with a few odds and ends. I wouldn't envy a person with tons of tools, nor despise a man without a simple jack. It's really not my problem, nor yours, nor anybody's but their own.

So, to conclude. You posted this:

"If you cant figure it out, youre hopeless."

And this:

"Your first problem is a superiority complex, that everyone but you is wrong."

Now, I may have ranted and raved about theoretical people whom I did not name or point particular fingers at, but it seems here that you are personally attacking me, as an actual 'argumentum ad hominem'. Per Wikipedia, which I use since I don't speak Latin, nor care to:

"Abusive ad hominem usually involves attacking the traits of an opponent as a means to invalidate their arguments. Equating someone's character with the soundness of their argument is a logical fallacy."

If I am hopeless, with a superiority complex, then why in the world would you bother arguing with me? I'd find that a waste of my time, if I were you.

 

[MAC702]

Where's the "like" button?

 

[Rusty Young Man]

I, personally, find your entire post to be a personal attack (ad hominem - I find the use of Latin to be indicicative of a superiority complex).
SNIP FOR SPACE....
If I am hopeless, with a superiority complex, then why in the world would you bother arguing with me? I'd find that a waste of my time, if I were you.

I approve of this message; to each their own, and carry what you're comfortable with. Does you no good to have the most tacticool gun ever made if you never learned how to place lead with it.

I get a few jabs my way for carrying "a hundred year-old gun" (1911 A1) with "only seven round" capacity (+1 chambered) and "only" two extra mags (up from one).

BUT, I recently got the revolver bug, and stumbling upon a post by WalkingWolf about the 1851 Navy REALLY got me wanting one. Slap one of those in a nice leather rig and I'll call it my BBQ gun (1911 A-1 in leather looks nice, but is not "BBQ-quality" by a long shot).

 

[BrianB]

BUT, I recently got the revolver bug, and stumbling upon a post by WalkingWolf about the 1851 Navy REALLY got me wanting one. Slap one of those in a nice leather rig and I'll call it my BBQ gun (1911 A-1 in leather looks nice, but is not "BBQ-quality" by a long shot).

I normally concealed-carry a modern gun but in Florida we can't generally open carry modern guns (we can only open carry modern guns under certain limited circumstances). Although it is pretty much unheard of, in theory we can open carry antique firearms (including replicas thereof) so I recently bought an 1858 Remington (replica) and a nice leather holster for it. Haven't had a chance to head to the range with it yet - hopefully soon.

I don't know if I'll ever actually open carry it (because I'm sure I'll be hassled by cops who don't know it's legal) but I really like the looks of this old-timey shootin' iron. I bought the 5.5" barreled one and the 8" barreled one (5.5" shown below). I think the 5.5" would be more convenient to carry, especially if you had to sit down, etc.

 

[notalawyer]

I normally concealed-carry a modern gun but in Florida we can't generally open carry modern guns (we can only open carry modern guns under certain limited circumstances). Although it is pretty much unheard of, in theory we can open carry antique firearms (including replicas thereof) so I recently bought an 1858 Remington (replica) and a nice leather holster for it. Haven't had a chance to head to the range with it yet - hopefully soon.

I don't know if I'll ever actually open carry it (because I'm sure I'll be hassled by cops who don't know it's legal) but I really like the looks of this old-timey shootin' iron. I bought the 5.5" barreled one and the 8" barreled one (5.5" shown below). I think the 5.5" would be more convenient to carry, especially if you had to sit down, etc.

View attachment 11030

I can almost guarantee you'll be arrested and prosecuted. You'll need to provide an expert witness that will testify that your piece was, in fact, manufactured in or before 1918 or is an exact replica thereof.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I can almost guarantee you'll be arrested and prosecuted. You'll need to provide an expert witness that will testify that your piece was, in fact, manufactured in or before 1918 or is an exact replica thereof.

It depends on the statute of Florida describing a firearm, or the text of the law prohibiting OC. If antique firearms are considered on the same level as firearms in Fl the carrier is screwed. If the law says weapon or gun instead of firearm the carrier is screwed. People must realize that the term antique firearm is mostly related to the federal level, unless the states have the same language. Such as Il, NY, and a few others they are the same as modern firearms.

Case in point in NC a CHP is a concealed handgun permit, not a concealed firearm permit, so one could get arrested for concealing a antique firearm without a permit. One in NC cannot conceal any weapon other than a handgun with a permit, except a pocket knife.

I agree no matter what the law he would get arrested, but a judge or jury would have to decide whether a BP firearm is exempt. When the court rules in our favor it is a good thang, as long as I am not the test case.

 

[BrianB]

It depends on the statute of Florida describing a firearm, or the text of the law prohibiting OC.

790.001 Definitions.—As used in this chapter, except where the context otherwise requires:
(1) “Antique firearm” means any firearm manufactured in or before 1918 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar early type of ignition system) or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1918, and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1918, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
[...]
(6) “Firearm” means any weapon (including a starter gun) which will, is designed to, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; any destructive device; or any machine gun. The term “firearm” does not include an antique firearm unless the antique firearm is used in the commission of a crime.

790.053 Open carrying of weapons.—
(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.

Seems pretty clear. That said, an officer is not likely going to be able to tell from the butt of the gun that it's percussion cap, so contact and detention to determine the status would be reasonable. Upon determining that it is percussion cap that should be the end of the story. Yes, I know an overzealous LE could arrest you anyway, hence the apprehension against actually open carrying the piece. At a minimum it would be foolish to even consider it before the Norman case is resolved since it's at least slightly possible that case could legalize open carry in Florida.

 

[BrianB]

I can almost guarantee you'll be arrested and prosecuted. You'll need to provide an expert witness that will testify that your piece was, in fact, manufactured in or before 1918 or is an exact replica thereof.

As quoted above, the law says "replica", not "exact replica". Also under the U.S. Supreme Court case of Staples v. United States in order to convict someone of a crime based upon a feature of a firearm it is the state's burden to prove that they knew or reasonably should have known that the firearm possessed the feature that subjected it to regulation. In my opinion the state would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I knew, or reasonably should have known, that the Pietta 1858 Remington replica was not a replica of a firearm manufactured prior to 1918. If this item is a firearm under Florida law then Cabela's has broken all sorts of Florida laws by shipping them directly to purchasers here without following any of Florida's laws regarding retail delivery of firearms.

I'm not worried about whether or not this gun is a firearm under Florida law, but I'm also not eager to get an arrest record over it. If I were retired (I'm not) and didn't really care about a 2nd degree misdemeanor arrest record then I'd do it just for the principle of the matter. In my opinion if you have a copy of the law with you, show it to the investigating officer, and he arrests you anyway, it's a good chance to get some extra retirement money by suing the officer and agency for the bogus arrest, 1983 civil rights violation, etc.

 

[notalawyer]

Seems pretty clear. That said, an officer is not likely going to be able to tell from the butt of the gun that it's percussion cap, so contact and detention to determine the status would be reasonable. Upon determining that it is percussion cap that should be the end of the story. Yes, I know an overzealous LE could arrest you anyway, hence the apprehension against actually open carrying the piece. At a minimum it would be foolish to even consider it before the Norman case is resolved since it's at least slightly possible that case could legalize open carry in Florida.

The problem there is that LEO's are not firearms experts. FDLE has those guys on staff. They will be the ones in court to testify that the firearm was or was not manufactured in or before 1918, or is in fact a replica. Thus an arrest based on PC that you violated 790.053, is perfectly legal.