• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Open carry at library?

garand_guy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
493
Location
Nevada
That appears to be somewhat condescending given the fact I have pushed OC through the newspapers, written hundreds ofLetters, (worked pretty good for DMV) appeared on Heidie Harris radio show, Filed dozens of Internal affairs complaints, appeared on several TV channels, Bi-monthly meetings with METRO's Assistant Sheriff, took part in legislature, sued NSCA METRO Hend. Boulder City, NHP all while challenging with activism. I would really like to know what specifically you meant by that comment. Are your tactics more diverse? The hilarious part is, I was quoting Don turner when he stated the reason he uses me for a sounding board... He said I was not politically correct and the appreciates it.

I'm not sure how you got condescending from my statement and I'm sorry you might have inferred that. I simply meant that a politically correct organization like NVFAC is one way of dealing with the issue (letters and contacts with the legislators and officials) along with non-PC aggressive activism. I can assure you I feel that the second tactic, being aggressive and using PR as a tactic, is the method I think works best. I'm also glad the NVFAC has someone like you to provide opinions.

There was no offense meant.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
they are mass sending it out that, that's the exact email i received.

responded with

So then your board of trustees have a written policy (not a sign but written) on not allowing deadly weapons? If so please provide said policy as the quoted NRS says the board of trustees must adopt the policy. Your own website notes (http://www.lvccld.org/pdfs/policies/rules_of_conduct_en.pdf) Firearms are prohibited as outlined in NRS 202.3673 which does not apply to open carry only to conceal carry and this has been challenged and beaten at many state buildings including the DMV.

Also are you familiar with the recently passed SB 175 which states that ONLY the state legislature can regulate the carrying and storage of firearms, firearm accessories and ammunition. If I'm not mistaken you are not the state legislature, which means that any rules you pass are immediately null and void per SB 175 and its preemption of all existing laws regarding firearms.

As to you health and safety, how well did the sign at sandy hook work to prevent the criminal who carried a firearm? How about in Oregon a few weeks back? Do you honestly believe that a criminal will see a sign and opt to back away? By not allowing a person to legally and lawfully carry a firearm according to the law you are violation NRS 379.040, i am a member of the public and you are restricting my rights to access it.

doubt it will help but it will show their due negligence to the law since we are trying to get them to change their rules.

only thing that they will listen to is a judge though.

Edit to add. I reached out to Shelley Shelton who is very active on behalf of us gun owners and she has reached out to their legal team. I will update as I hear back.
(my bold above)

I understand your frustration, but I believe you could have written a far more polished note, complete with accurate capitalization and punctuation.

The bolded part above should have been left out entirely, IMHO. If you want to argue the law, then do so. Leave the emotion and other irrelevancies to the other side.
 

07yzryder

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
32
Location
LV
(my bold above)

I understand your frustration, but I believe you could have written a far more polished note, complete with accurate capitalization and punctuation.

The bolded part above should have been left out entirely, IMHO. If you want to argue the law, then do so. Leave the emotion and other irrelevancies to the other side.

I could have taken a lot more time to write it with punctuation and possibly should have.

As far as leaving that out I don't believe it, it's not emotion it's fact, I'm just not going to be pc about it. People die in gun free zones for a reason.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
just to clear up one small nit...neither sandy hook elementary SCHOOL nor the OR university have signs....

just saying...

ipse
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I could have taken a lot more time to write it with punctuation and possibly should have.

As far as leaving that out I don't believe it, it's not emotion it's fact, I'm just not going to be pc about it. People die in gun free zones for a reason.
Leaving out what I highlighted has nothing to do with being PC - it has everything to do with being relevant.

Do you really think the library people care about something other than their power and "the children"? Hell no! They think of their place as a sanctuary!

Speak to them about things that will move them, or force them to move - which at this point is the law/legalities.

Speak to your audience in their language - which in this case is power.
 
Last edited:

garand_guy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
493
Location
Nevada
I know that the website calls it a "blogspot", but I think that that name undersells your writings. I think of a blog as a low-level, stream of consciousness, series of posts. Yours is much more than that.

I'd think of a new name! :cool:

Thanks! Blogspot is easy to use. Been toying with other venues, but readership and contributions aren't that great. Yet.
 

Vegassteve

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
1,763
Location
Las Vegas NV, ,
I have been in contact with Fiore and Shelton. They have both told me they are on it. The library counsel so far has not responded to either of them though.
 

garand_guy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
493
Location
Nevada
I have been in contact with Fiore and Shelton. They have both told me they are on it. The library counsel so far has not responded to either of them though.

It would be really stupid of them to start ignoring legislators. Among all the regular stupid. Thanks for contacting them Steve!
 

DON`T TREAD ON ME

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
1,231
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Last night it became personal.

Dear Jennifer Schember,

Last evening, my loved one attended a small business conference held at one of the local library’s. Upon her arrival, she was greeted by this sign:

2038.jpg

Between the sign, and the statements procured from the armed Mercenary stationed at the door (to prevent people from having the ability to defend themselves.) Your policy on its face appears psychotic.

In effort to prevent those who are forced to pay for this institution, from the ability to protect themselves with a weapon (gun,) we (the Library District) will violate our own policy, installing an individual armed with weapons, calling many more people armed, and willing to initiate aggression and violence. In a comprehensive effort to prevent common people from having the ability to defend themselves, as outlined in the Nevada constitution (article 1 section 11.)

Pursuant to NRS Chapter 239 I hereby request copies of the following documents possessed by the Clark County – Las Vegas Library District:
• Any written policy applicable to non-library employed persons regarding firearms.
• Any document or list containing the definition of “Weapon” as worded in the sign.
• Any policy or training, offered to library / security staff dictating actions when an armed individual is recognized.
• All interoffice or cross jurisdictional emails, memo’s, administrative notices, or other correspondence mentioning Open Carry in the library, SB 175 (2015) or other firearm in the library related correspondence.
• Any document with specified training on effecting citizen arrest provided to library / security personnel.
• Any document providing training for library/security personnel who become the subject of an arrest by private citizen.
• All copies and accounting, including case numbers, of persons charged with a crime for Open Carrying their firearm into a library in your district, in the last 24 months. As well as the statutes utilized to prosecute.
• The name, and title of the individual responsible for the exact wording of the sign (attached) as well as all documentation pertaining to the signs prohibiting weapons.

Please note regarding the following law below. ALL VIOLATORS ARE SUBJECT TO PROSECUTION

NRS 239.300  Stealing, altering or defacing records, documents or instruments.  A person who:
1.  Steals, embezzles, corrupts, alters, withdraws, falsifies or avoids any record, process, charter, gift, grant, conveyance, bond or contract;
2.  Knowingly or willfully, takes off, discharges or conceals any issue, forfeited recognizance or other forfeiture;
3.  Forges, defaces or falsifies any document or instrument recorded or filed in any court, or any registered acknowledgment or certificate; or
4.  Steals, alters, defaces or falsifies any minute, document, book or any proceedings of or belonging to any public office within this state,
Ê is guilty of a category C felony and shall be punished as provided in NRS 193.130.
[Part 61:108:1866; B § 2659; BH § 1696; C § 1842; RL § 2817; NCL § 4817]—(NRS A 1967, 533; 1979, 1463; 1983, 266; 1995, 1263)

I look forward to your professional response within the five days allowed by law.
Tread.
 

Bernymac

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
415
Location
Las Vegas
Dear Jennifer Schember,

Last evening, my loved one attended a small business conference held at one of the local library’s. Upon her arrival, she was greeted by this sign:

Between the sign, and the statements procured from the armed Mercenary stationed at the door (to prevent people from having the ability to defend themselves.) Your policy on its face appears psychotic.



Pursuant to NRS Chapter 239 I hereby request copies of the following documents possessed by the Clark County – Las Vegas Library District:
• Any written policy applicable to non-library employed persons regarding firearms.
• Any document or list containing the definition of “Weapon” as worded in the sign.
• Any policy or training, offered to library / security staff dictating actions when an armed individual is recognized.
• All interoffice or cross jurisdictional emails, memo’s, administrative notices, or other correspondence mentioning Open Carry in the library, SB 175 (2015) or other firearm in the library related correspondence.
• Any document with specified training on effecting citizen arrest provided to library / security personnel.
• Any document providing training for library/security personnel who become the subject of an arrest by private citizen.
• All copies and accounting, including case numbers, of persons charged with a crime for Open Carrying their firearm into a library in your district, in the last 24 months. As well as the statutes utilized to prosecute.
• The name, and title of the individual responsible for the exact wording of the sign (attached) as well as all documentation pertaining to the signs prohibiting weapons.

Please note regarding the following law below. ALL VIOLATORS ARE SUBJECT TO PROSECUTION



I look forward to your professional response within the five days allowed by law.
Tread.

What sign??? Is there supposed to be an attachment? My apologies if it is actually there, but I cannot see it.
 
Last edited:

DON`T TREAD ON ME

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
1,231
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Response

Bramwell Karen E <bramwellk@lvccld.org>
To xxxxxxxx@yahoo.com
Today at 12:18 PM

Hi Tread,



Your email addressed to Administration to obtain documents has been referred to me for answer.



Attached is a copy of our Public Records Requests Policy as well as the Public Records Request form. Before we proceed, please fill out the Public Records Request form, as costs are associated with your request. You can either email the document back or fax your request to 702.507.6284.



Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks so much.



Karen



Karen Bramwell-Thomas

Public Relations Manager

Las Vegas-Clark County Library District

7060 W. Windmill Lane

Las Vegas, NV 89113

702.507.6285

bramwellk@lvccld.org

www.lvccld.org



Anniversary logo
 

DON`T TREAD ON ME

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
1,231
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Back at them

Dear Karen Bramwell,

Thank you for providing your Open records request request form. I see no provision in law wherein you you are authorized to avoid my acknowledged request for the reason I did not fill out a form you prefer. I did however see in the law, the requirement for your office to respond:

NRS 239.0107  Requests for inspection or copying of public books or records: Actions by governmental entities.
1.  Not later than the end of the fifth business day after the date on which the person who has legal custody or control of a public book or record of a governmental entity receives a written or oral request from a person to inspect, copy or receive a copy of the public book or record, a governmental entity shall do one of the following, as applicable:
If you wish to avoid my request feel free to do so, as pointed out previously, there are provisions established for that act.

I provided my contact information which is how you responded to me. You may utilize email to provide the copies requested, it is preferred. You have already proven you can email policy's quickly and without charge, See the NRS 239 policy you attached to the email you sent. I look forward to receiving the items that do not require extraordinary use of personnel or resources via email. for other items that require many copies, I will be happy to set up a day when myself, and an assistant can come to your office and view such records you are unable to provide in a cost efficient manor.


NRS 239.052  Fees: Limitations; waiver; posting of sign or notice.

1.  Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, a governmental entity may charge a fee for providing a copy of a public record. Such a fee must not exceed the actual cost to the governmental entity to provide the copy of the public record unless a specific statute or regulation sets a fee that the governmental entity must charge for the copy. A governmental entity shall not charge a fee for providing a copy of a public record if a specific statute or regulation requires the governmental entity to provide the copy without charge.

If your Library district is burdened by law or other regulation to charge for items that otherwise could be simply emailed as you did the form, and policy please out of professional courtesy provide the statute, or regulation.

You are welcome to notify me of the cost of each line item I requested, It will keep me from making several separate requests, ending with the same results. I will pay for the ones I want.

Tread
 
Top