OC/CC in Wisconsin RIP

[ilbob]

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stopthegrays wrote:

minuteman wrote:

pkbites, I do know of a case my friend won in Fond Du Lac county if you would like the details shoot me an e-mail or msg. I can send you the minutes from several that have been dismissed right off the bat also if you would like (Columbia and Sauk counties that I know of). I know of none in Madison or Milwaukee but someone needs to stand up, a march would do it Im sure.

God bless you for knowing whats right and keep at it, I understand your worry with the possible charges and I am too, all the more reason to fight it as hard as we can.

Are you talking about Dave? If so, he got popped for CCW and DC. After 3+ years a lot of bond restrictions, more than a few days in court and $7000 he worked a deal with the DA to plead to the DC no contest.

Sounds a lot like he didn't exactly get the case kicked at all.

 

[stopthegrays]

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ilbob wrote:

stopthegrays wrote:

minuteman wrote:

pkbites, I do know of a case my friend won in Fond Du Lac county if you would like the details shoot me an e-mail or msg. I can send you the minutes from several that have been dismissed right off the bat also if you would like (Columbia and Sauk counties that I know of). I know of none in Madison or Milwaukee but someone needs to stand up, a march would do it Im sure.

God bless you for knowing whats right and keep at it, I understand your worry with the possible charges and I am too, all the more reason to fight it as hard as we can.

Are you talking about Dave? If so, he got popped for CCW and DC. After 3+ years a lot of bond restrictions, more than a few days in court and $7000 he worked a deal with the DA to plead to the DC no contest.

Sounds a lot like he didn't exactly get the case kicked at all.

Might be a different guy but I will cut MM some slack if it is someone different.
I would be interested in knowing who this person is if it is not Dave.

 

[44Brent]

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Dick wrote:

I've never heard of Shaun Krannish. He may be the most wonderful spokesman for RKBA ever, but nobody knows him.

http://www.icarry.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=280

More Railroading Of Gun Rights Activists By Anti-gun Prosecutors

Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org

Wednesday, October 25, 2006


A young man from the State of Illinois needs our help. His name is Shaun Kranish and he's the founder of an active grassroots gun rights organization in this draconian state. The organization is the ICarry Gun Rights Association and http://www.ICarry.org is their web address. Shaun has found himself in a terrible legal and financial situation for exercising his rights.

Shaun has been wrongfully arrested and falsely charged with a crime that was not committed. The civil rights violations involved in this are unbelievable, and too numerous to discuss in brief. After the initial arrest, jailing, and charges, the case got even worse. The state attorney decided to make an example out of Shaun and to try to scare the rest of the gun owners in Illinois out of legally carrying a pistol for protection.

Shaun's charges have gone from Class A Misdemeanor to Class 4 Felony. The state is holding nothing back in going after this twenty-one year old upstanding, law-abiding citizen. The really sick thing is they probably think they're doing the rest of the state a service. After all, we can't have civilians taking their own safety into their own hands. This is a power the state wants to reserve for itself. Dependent civilians are good civilians.

Illinois surprisingly does allow concealed carry, only the gun must be unloaded and enclosed in a container. This is what those really concerned about safety and freedom do in Illinois. They've never lost a court case, yet these rogue state attorneys keep maliciously prosecuting them to scare as many people out of it as possible. Shaun's fighting back, but he needs our help!

Shaun has a deadline to raise some money for his defense and he needs us now more than ever. Let's stand behind him and show him he's not alone. When they pick on one of us, they pick on us all.

Gun Owners Foundation has made a contribution to help with Shaun's legal expenses, but he still needs another $2000. I hope you will check out the links below and contribute as much as you can. Every gun owner in Illinois has a dog in this hunt!

 

[44Brent]

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Bryan wrote

Insulting another man who's done more for the RKBA in one summer thanmost of you will do in your entire lifetime. You should be ashamed, admit yourinsulting commentsare ill-placed, and apologize to this man, and anyone who's lifted a finger to further the cause while so many other gun owners sat back and shrugged.

I do not believe my comments are mis-placed. You have had the right to open carry in Wisconsin for years and you haven'texercised that right. It doesn't matter it you spent the last 2,000 hours of your life lobbying on concealed carry if you refuse to exercise the rights you already have.

I used to live in Illinois where we had no such right, and we didn't have the leverage that you have, so I get irritatedhearing complaints from WCCA about the difficulties you have encountered.

What is stopping you right now from having 100 people openly carrying into the state capitol proudly wearing a pistol on your hip?

1. Can't afford to purchase a gun? (If you can't afford to purchase a gun for open carry you can't afford to purchase one for concealed carry)
2. Can't afford to purchase a holster? (If you can't afford to purchase a gun for open carry you can't afford to purchase one for concealed carry)
3. Can't find a suitable open-carry holster? (Try http://www.donhume.comor another internet seller)
4. Afraid you might irritate a legislator? (So what? Doyle announced to the world that it was perfectly legal to openly carry a pistol)

It seems to me that Doyle "knew" that concealed carry advocates would never rise to the challenge and take him at his word.

In short, WCCA has done the difficult work, but never bothered doing the easy work.

 

[ilbob]

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The bottom line is that the WCCA is lobbying for concealed carry. If they were lobbying for open carry they would be the WOCA.

If you think OC is such a great idea in WI, go there and practice it. I suggest you start outside the capital building in Madison. They will only arrest you there. In Milwaukee, as Lonnie mentioned, they are as likely to shoot you in the back as arrest you.

PS-I do know that is an exaggeration of the factual situation in Milwaukee, but it does reflect the real danger to someone who might OC in an urban area, legal or not.

 

[44Brent]

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If you think OC is such a great idea in WI, go there and practice it. I suggest you start outside the capital building in Madison. They will only arrest you there. In Milwaukee, as Lonnie mentioned, they are as likely to shoot you in the back as arrest you.

PS-I do know that is an exaggeration of the factual situation in Milwaukee, but it does reflect the real danger to someone who might OC in an urban area, legal or not.

I won't be open carrying in WI anytime soon as I live in WA. If I did live in WI, I would be open carrying there. I have been open carrying in many states around the country, and in the other states I heard the same "chicken little" warnings, but nothing bad ever happend.

It is interesting to note that anti-concealed rights legislators issue dire predictions about "blood in the streets" every time it has been proposed in a state legislature. These predictions have always proven false.

It is also interesting to note that pro-concealed carry folks often isue dire predictions about open carriers being shot or arrested by police.

Look around you, how many times have your predictions about open carriers being shot or arrested by police come to fruition?

Is your belief rational? Do you have any evidence to support your beliefs? Is it possible that your arguments are based on "mythology"?

 

[44Brent]

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The bottom line is that the WCCA is lobbying for concealed carry. If they were lobbying for open carry they would be the WOCA.

Why the heck would WI need a "lobbying organization" for open carry? It's already LEGAL.

 

[ilbob]

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44Brent wrote:

The bottom line is that the WCCA is lobbying for concealed carry. If they were lobbying for open carry they would be the WOCA.

Why the heck would WI need a "lobbying organization" for open carry? It's already LEGAL.

Then presumably everyone that wants to open carry is already doing so.

 

[Shotgun]

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I talked with three law firms today about OC in Madison. One wasn't interested in handling such a case, i.e., if I were to be arrested for OC. The second one (the former county DA) said he wouldn't recommend doing it, but if I was charged with something he would represent me. (Based on the conversation as a whole, I think we have substantial philosophical disagreement on carrying firearms.) And the third attorney was somewhat amused by the prospect of someone OCing in Madison "as a political statement." And he would be happy to represent me (for a fee of course) should I encounter legal problems. He said I might be disappointed because perhaps nothing would happen. I told him that I would not be disappointed by that, surprised perhaps, but not disappointed.

Of course the vicinity of the State Capitol would be the best place to do it. It's only a block from where I work. I walk that area, and down State Street (for those not familiar with the area, a street connecting the Capitol with the University, less than a mile in length) almost daily, and on most days one does not even see an LEO. There are no school zones within at least a mile.

 

[ilbob]

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Shotgun wrote:

Of course the vicinity of the State Capitol would be the best place to do it. It's only a block from where I work. I walk that area, and down State Street (for those not familiar with the area, a street connecting the Capitol with the University, less than a mile in length) almost daily, and on most days one does not even see an LEO. There are no school zones within at least a mile.

Is a university considered part of a school zone? Seems to me there are satellite campuses all over the place in Madison.

 

[pkbites]

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minuteman wrote:

pkbites, I do know of a case my friend won in Fond Du Lac county if you would like the details shoot me an e-mail or msg. I can send you the minutes from several that have been dismissed right off the bat also if you would like (Columbia and Sauk counties that I know of).

How about giving us a name? Anyone here can run the name through CCAP and at least look at what the charges & disposition were.

wcca.wicourts.gov

 

[lockman]

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ilbob wrote:

Is a university considered part of a school zone? Seems to me there are satellite campuses all over the place in Madison.

ilbob has a point, unlike most states The WI gun free school zone act does not define what is a school! Martha's school of dance?

No difference between public, private, primary, secondary or vocational.

Unless there are definitions in play not contained in WI Chapter 948.

At least there still is "knowingly"

 

[Monkeyleg]

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I promised myself I wasn't going to return to this forum. But, I guess I'm a masochist.

One of our volunteers is a Dane county prosecutor who obviously wants to remain anonymous.

When a core group of WCCA volunteers was discussing an open carry march, I called this prosecutor to get his input. He warned me that, no matter what Dane County DA Brian Blanchard might promise in terms of no arrests, Blanchard would likely push for arrests.

The core group of volunteers decided that, with our prospects for passing a bill and getting a veto override looking fairly good, it was better to wait on an open carry march. Having a march when the bill was being debated would have had a detrimental effect.

When the veto override failed, we were into the election cycle. And, with some candidates getting hammered on their votes for CCW, it didn't seem like a good idea to put them in the position of having to comment on open carry. Additionally, I was focusing all of my own efforts on raising funds for those candidates.

We are going to have an open carry march. We'll probably start out in areas where law enforcement will be friendly to us, such as Waukesha, Manitowoc, Eau Claire, etc. We'll then move on to Madison. In announcing the march, though, I'm going to warn people that they may face the possibility of arrest. It would be unfair not to give that warning.

After the holidays, we'll be having a meeting somewhere in the south-central part of the state. Anyone who's interested is invited, and all ideas will be on the table. If you're interested, but not on our email alert list, go to our website and sign up to receive alerts.

As for the website, I'm not the webmaster. Another volunteer is, and his real job keeps him very busy. I don't have time to write news stories just for the sake of writing news stories. If someone here would like to volunteer to do that, please let me know.

Or maybe I should just have the webmaster post some of the emails I send out.

One thing I want to make clear: I don't mind criticism of the WCCA when it comes to what we're doing or, more specifically, what I've been doing. That's fair, and I actually welcome it when it's given as constructive criticsm.

I do get angry, as you can see, when someone says that all the WCCA does is ask for money. The only money we ask for is at the gun shows, where volunteers will ask for a buck or two to cover the cost of the tables, the literature, and the pre-stamped postcards we've been providing. Usually, we get enough in the donation jar to cover those costs at each show.

In the emails I send, I don't ask for money for our group. I ask for money for candidates who support concealed carry.

If you want to get hit up for money, sign up to be on Wisconsin Gun Owners mailing list. The director of WGO makes a nice income for himself by just throwing stones at the rest of us who are doing the work.

I realize that this is a forum for those who advocate open carry. I've carried openly, and I've carried concealed. Sometimes one is a better option than the other.

But we should have those options here in Wisconsin.

 

[44Brent]

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We are going to have an open carry march. We'll probably start out in areas where law enforcement will be friendly to us, such as Waukesha, Manitowoc, Eau Claire, etc. We'll then move on to Madison. In announcing the march, though, I'm going to warn people that they may face the possibility of arrest. It would be unfair not to give that warning.

HOORAY!

I would be thrilled to participate, except I live too far away in Washington. I feel that this is long overdue. I hope you march right into the state legislative chambers over and over again until they get the message about passing concealed carry.

Look at this way: with open carry you've got about 40% of your rights secured. Cconcealed carry = 40%, and places off-limits is another 20% that need to be secured.

 

[Shotgun]

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lockman wrote:

ilbob wrote:

Is a university considered part of a school zone? Seems to me there are satellite campuses all over the place in Madison.

ilbob has a point, unlike most states The WI gun free school zone act does not define what is a school! Martha's school of dance?

No difference between public, private, primary, secondary or vocational.

Unless there are definitions in play not contained in WI Chapter 948.

At least there still is "knowingly"

No, the Universitydoes not come under the definition of a"school zone." The definition is in fact contain in the statute, which specifically defines a school:

"School" means a public, parochial or private school which provides an educational program for one or more grades between grades 1 and 12 and which is commonly known as an elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school or high school. [948.61(1)(b)Stats.]

So a pre-school, or daycare, or even "Martha's School of Dance" do not have 1000-foot "school zones" around them.

The University does have its own Administrative rules regarding weapons on campus, but there is no 1000-foot zone around the campus. There is not even a 1-inch zone around the campus.

On a side note, I know for a fact that "school crossing signs" do not necessarily mean one is within a school zone. There are such signs not far from where I live that are placed on a busy street which students cross on their way to and from school, but the school grounds are several blocks off that street and well beyond 1000 feet from that particular street.

 

[Mike]

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Why this emphasis on "marching"? It shows weakness and could be construed as an effort to intimidate,

Just OC as an individual while minding your own business. This is the activity we want secured thru custom and practice.

 

[Monkeyleg]

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Mike, we're also addressing the issue of individuals carrying openly without getting arrested for disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace.

It will be several months before we'll know the outcome of that effort.

 

[Mike]

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Monkeyleg wrote:

Mike, we're also addressing the issue of individuals carrying openly without getting arrested for disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace.

It will be several months before we'll know the outcome of that effort.

What "effort"?

 

[Monkeyleg]

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Mike, I can't go into detail about it without embarassing a public official, which would ruin everything.

 

[ilbob]

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Monkeyleg wrote:

Mike, I can't go into detail about it without embarassing a public official, which would ruin everything.

I love secrets. If you tell us, we promise not to tell anyone else.