• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

No need for a gun?

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,298
Location
SE, WI
Man Tackles Suspected Bank Robber

http://www.wisn.com/news/24937192/detail.html

Isn't Associated one to those banks that doesn't allow carry in their buildings? I cannot remember. I think they could have at least kept the bank robber in there for the police or stopped the criminal in other means. Then again, this state favors the criminal instead of the law abiding person (at least for now).
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
Man Tackles Suspected Bank Robber

http://www.wisn.com/news/24937192/detail.html

Isn't Associated one to those banks that doesn't allow carry in their buildings? I cannot remember. I think they could have at least kept the bank robber in there for the police or stopped the criminal in other means. Then again, this state favors the criminal instead of the law abiding person (at least for now).
I saw the video. Seemed kinda dangerous. The BG had the gun pointed at the teller when the good guy tackled him. I would of been concerned that it went off.
 

AaronS

Regular Member
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
1,497
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
It would be far easier to eliminate the threat than to go hand to hand with him.
I would have to agree.
In the end, luck would have it that the gun was dropped on the floor. Guy got a real good hold on the BGs' neck and head. I would still say it was luck though. A BG with a gun is nothing to play with. A good man could have gotten hurt.
On a side note, any guess what an off-duty cop might have done?
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,386
Location
in front of my computer, WI
I would agree to a 'carry while intoxicated' thing, kinda like a dui. .08 and a gun, there we go.
Somewhat related to this, the statute for killing by driving while drunk also covers killing by shooting while drunk... with (almost) NO provision for self-defense. (See below.)

940.09 Homicide by intoxicated use of vehicle or firearm
(1g) Any person who does any of the following is guilty of a Class D felony:
Causes the death of another by the operation or handling of a firearm or airgun
(a) while under the influence of an intoxicant.
(am) while the person has a detectable amount of a restricted controlled substance in his or her blood.
(b) while the person has an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.

The wiggle room for a self-defense claim seems to be under 940.09(2)(a)
In any action under this section, the defendant has a defense if he or she proves by a preponderance of the evidence that the death would have occurred even if he or she had been exercising due care and he or she had not been under the influence of an intoxicant...

It's still a really bad idea to drink & carry, or vice versa, but having a beer with pizza with your buddies shouldn't lead to charges should you have to defend yourself in the parking lot, or while waiting for the cab / bus.

And whaddayawannabet that if someone went on a drunken shooting spree they'd get FAR more time in prison than those cretins who drink, drive, & murder.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,386
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Man Tackles Suspected Bank Robber
Every time I see that video, I think "what if the hero customer had been armed" (or "what if I were there"? which I wouldn't be, 'cause I don't bank there, but the question pops up).
I could see him walking up behind the BG just like he did, putting his own gun to the side of the BGs head, & a mist of red coming out the other side.
He was threatening the life of the teller by pointing a gun at her. A justified self-defense killing.
Also says something for the lack of situational awareness on the part of the robber.


As an aside, I live kinda near Sherman & Capitol. It's 1AM, & I heard (I think) 14 shots a few minutes ago, in rapid succession. Now I'm hearing a siren. One. I wanna move out of this neighborhood!!!!
 

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,298
Location
SE, WI
Anyone know what Flynn is saying here? http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/102597564.html

"You can train officers how to subdue a suspect, said Milwaukee Police Chief Edward Flynn, "but you can't necessarily train extraordinary judgment and that's what both officers showed in this circumstance."
Milwaukee Police Looking for a Shooting Suspect

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/102688619.html

I would have to agree.
In the end, luck would have it that the gun was dropped on the floor. Guy got a real good hold on the BGs' neck and head. I would still say it was luck though. A BG with a gun is nothing to play with. A good man could have gotten hurt.
On a side note, any guess what an off-duty cop might have done?
Probably tackled him as well since I'm not sure if they can carry, even though they can under federal law.
 
M

McX

Guest
humerous moment to speak of; this morning headed into work; a customer had gotten to the shop before me, and they were sitting in the lot awaiting my arrival. as i pulled in they commented to each other; this must be the guy, that or he's here to shoot us. (they told me this story after they came in), so i get out of my truck, and holster up, in front of them. The girl got out of her car, and asked; are you going to shoot us? I said; no ma'am, i am legally carrying a firearm for my protection in accordance with the laws of the state of wisconsin. gave an OC brochure to her significant other. humerous moment, another citizen educated. life goes on.
 

Nutczak

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
2,169
Location
The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
(a) while under the influence of an intoxicant.
(am) while the person has a detectable amount of a restricted controlled substance in his or her blood.


.
In the above quote, I have a real problem with the way this statute is worded.
it is very vague and I feel that If someone were ever forced to defend myself, that they MAY BE FOUND GUILTY if the statute is interpreted as written SINCE IT LEAVES NO CLARIFICATION ON PROPERLY PRESCRIBED MEDICATIONS!

For instance, lets say a guy/gal is being treated for chronic pain due to injuries, if he is legally ingesting an opiate medication in accordance to the doctors orders. An Opiate pain treatment medication can be classified as an intoxicating substance, So just because a detectable amount is found in a persons bloodstream I would expect the prosecutor to say that person was abusing prescription medications and try to portray that they were intoxicated from it.
Scary!
So because you had intense dental work, this could get you charged with a felony for an otherwise justifiable shooting due to the wording of the statute.
 

Spartacus

Banned
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
1,185
Location
La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
For instance, lets say a guy/gal is being treated for chronic pain due to injuries, if he is legally ingesting an opiate medication in accordance to the doctors orders. An Opiate pain treatment medication can be classified as an intoxicating substance, So just because a detectable amount is found in a persons bloodstream I would expect the prosecutor to say that person was abusing prescription medications and try to portray that they were intoxicated from it.
Scary!
Yes that will happen. COMMENTS REMOVED BY MODERATOR: Personal attack

I've known a few addicts, thats all. Its harder to quit Vicodin than just about anything.
 

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,298
Location
SE, WI
Ticking time bombs

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/103799984.html

"There is no way to stop drugs; all we can do is make it safe for others who want no part of it through proactive policing," said Milwaukee police Officer Mark Harms, assigned to the gang squad at the 5th District. "If we leave these drug spots go, they are ticking time bombs."
The target is a home at 3100 N. Buffum St. Neighbors have reported drug dealing and random gunfire.
1,340: Number of drug-related arrests in 5th District from Aug. 1, 2009, to Aug. 31, 2010. Citywide, there were 7,004 in the same period.
11,381: Number of arrests in 5th District from Aug. 1, 2009, to Aug. 31, 2010. Citywide, there were 41,578 in the same period.
493: Number of guns recovered in 5th District from Aug. 1, 2009, to Aug. 31, 2010. Citywide, 2,401 were recovered in the same period.
 
X

XxCaMeLxxToSiSxX

Guest
No need for a gun

to me it isn't about a need but more a right. do i need a cellphone ? no. Do I need a house ? no. there are alot of things we do not need but we do have a right to regardless.
 
Last edited:
Top