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Nevada open carry reminders for the new guys

mp06011999

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
520
Location
Las Vegas
Somebody mentioned earlier that a discussion about "which ammo to carry" was going to be an endless one. lol Can't help it, I agree. I've been into guns for over 30 years and it's as old an argument as religion, politics and the self-contained cartridge itself.

My advice is as stated before, do your own research and formulate your own opinion. There are tons of tests, studies, mock scenarios, etc. that one could drive themselves nuts trying to make sense of it. And THAT is where you will form your opinion.

I am in no way disagreeing with anyone's suggestions of what they believe is best to carry. I am simply saying that, before you bet your life on something, it's wise to do as much of your own research as needed to give you that comfy cozy feeling when strapping on your gun for most likely not one single opinion-giver will be there covering your back when the crap hits the fan.

And on that, my opinion of the only thing that isn't arguable: You can't beat shot placement (practice, practice, practice) and you can't beat a pea shooter on your hip with a 45 left at home (carry it!).
 

The Truth

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Joined
Jul 18, 2014
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Henrico
I know the pregnant comment was about me:lol:
Now I am a young mom to three young boys. I don't take prisoners, alive at least:eek: I am really nice once you get to know me though.

To the OP.

I carry a 5 shot 38 special revolver currently with hollow points(can't think of the brand since my husband bought them). I only carry 5 extra rounds, along with a pocket knife. When I had my bersa Thunder I carried one to two extra mags for a total of 14-21 shots. I carried Speer gold dot.

I have had kids see my gun(not including my own) and never had them touch, though I have seen wide eyed looks of surprise and over heard kids asking their parents about it. Nothing direct to me.

As for events, we do an OC meet once a month here in Las Vegas and we have people from all walks of life. I think right now I am consistently the youngest carrying member that shows up, I am 25. Young, old, purple, or polka dotted, we don't care as long as you dress in a manner that makes you appear as a decent member of society.

+1

My fiancee and I are pretty young too, and she's just now getting into OC (I'm 28 she's 33). I'll show her your post for motivation!

Somebody mentioned earlier that a discussion about "which ammo to carry" was going to be an endless one. lol Can't help it, I agree. I've been into guns for over 30 years and it's as old an argument as religion, politics and the self-contained cartridge itself.

My advice is as stated before, do your own research and formulate your own opinion. There are tons of tests, studies, mock scenarios, etc. that one could drive themselves nuts trying to make sense of it. And THAT is where you will form your opinion.

I am in no way disagreeing with anyone's suggestions of what they believe is best to carry. I am simply saying that, before you bet your life on something, it's wise to do as much of your own research as needed to give you that comfy cozy feeling when strapping on your gun for most likely not one single opinion-giver will be there covering your back when the crap hits the fan.

And on that, my opinion of the only thing that isn't arguable: You can't beat shot placement (practice, practice, practice) and you can't beat a pea shooter on your hip with a 45 left at home (carry it!).

+1

Don't mean to beat a dead horse, I just really like talking about it! :D
 

Felid`Maximus

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Joined
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Location
Reno, Nevada, USA
I would advise against FMJ for SD in the city. Also, the XTP is an exceptional penetrator for a JHP, but it also depends on the bullet weight. FMJ penetrates too much for city carry and retains too much kinetic energy by design. IMO of course.
I disagree. Almost all bystanders that are hit are as a result of missing the target entirely. And statistically most bullets miss the intended target. And you can't count on a hollow-point expanding even when it hits a person, not to mention when it hits something that doesn't contain water. If it fails to expand it will penetrate almost as well as an FMJ. Basically, what I'm saying is that making sure you have a clear backdrop is more important than the penetration capability of the round. And if your round hits the target but fails to take him out because it goes too shallow, and as a result a lot more bullets are fired, each one of those extra bullets fired is potentially more dangerous than a bullet that goes all the way through someone and has some energy left over afterwards.

Really? Maybe if it were a long range shot with a really light bullet through heavy clothing I might buy it, but a 165gr HST at pistol range would destroy the sternum with a direct hit.
Do you have a test showing a 165 gr HST destroying the sternum and then having enough energy left over to penetrate into the heart? Because in Dr. Grabinsky's X-Ray of a patient hit by a .40 cal hollow-point, it failed to penetrate through it. I don't know, maybe it was a fluke. Maybe the round had half the powder it should have had. Maybe the guy had a double strength sternum, I don't know. We don't know the angle or the distance to the target, or the barrel length for the gun. And it may not have been a 165gr HST round, but almost every .40 cal hollow-point I've seen will go at least 10 inches into gel, and very few make it further than 16". Maybe most .40 cal hollow-points would do it, but for whatever reason this one didn't. But my guess is that if the round was a non-expanding round, it probably would have made it through.

According to this test: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=5&f=20&t=84278
The 165 gr. HST round penetrated 13.5 inches of gelatin.

As a comparison, a BB gun at 600 fps will penetrate about 3.5" of gelatin. A .32 ACP FMJ round will go about 14" into gelatin. And in my tests a 115 gr copper plated 9mm FMJ will penetrate about 31" of gelatin.

A sternum is made of bone, which is harder than gelatin, and covered in skin, which is stronger than gelatin. Ballistic Gelatin is an approximation of pig muscle which is an approximation of human muscle. I guess, to me it seems plausible that a .40 caliber hollow-point might fail to penetrate the sternum. Maybe I'm not giving it enough credit, but what I do know is that from the limited evidence I have seen, I would be hesitant to carry a round which seems to have dismal penetration based on my limited sample of things I've seen.

Lots of variables to consider. Can you post a cite to this? 2 inches of penetration seems to be extreme underperformance.

Here is an article about agent dove:
http://www.thegunzone.com/miami-ammo.html

The article claims the perp was hit 14 times, 6 in "fatal locations." Cop needs to spend some time on the tac range! /s

Article says he hit the perp 14 times BEFORE the final 3 hits that took him out.

I don't understand your conclusion that he needs range time. By all accounts his marksmanship was excellent. The problem was that the suspect just wasn't incapacitated very quickly. Of course, if he could have gotten head shots earlier on that could have changed things, but police usually train for center of mass shots. Being shot in a fatal location means it kills you eventually. But none of his first 14 hits injured the central nervous system. I believe most of the people who stop fighting after a non CNS hit do so because of psychological reasons. The moral of that story is that you can't expect your bullet to be a fight stopping bullet. I think it is a strong argument for carrying a lot of ammunition. Unless I suppose your marksmanship is so good that you can always nail the brain or spine. But those are small targets, especially on a person who is trying his hardest not to be killed and to kill you at the same time.

A center mass hit could hit the spine if the bullet goes deep enough. That is another strong argument for a round with decent penetration capability. But because I think most people are obsessed with expansion and using the round that becomes as wide as possible, most commercial hollow-points probably couldn't even make it that deep from a frontal hit. Especially if the suspect has his arms out in front of his body, which he probably will if he is fighting you.
 
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The Truth

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I disagree. Almost all bystanders that are hit are as a result of missing the target entirely. And statistically most bullets miss the intended target. And you can't count on a hollow-point expanding even when it hits a person, not to mention when it hits something that doesn't contain water. If it fails to expand it will penetrate almost as well as an FMJ. Basically, what I'm saying is that making sure you have a clear backdrop is more important than the penetration capability of the round. And if your round hits the target but fails to take him out because it goes too shallow, and as a result a lot more bullets are fired, each one of those extra bullets fired is potentially more dangerous than a bullet that goes all the way through someone and has some energy left over afterwards.

Good points. The goal is accuracy.


Do you have a test showing a 165 gr HST destroying the sternum and then having enough energy left over to penetrate into the heart? Because in Dr. Grabinsky's X-Ray of a patient hit by a .40 cal hollow-point, it failed to penetrate through it. I don't know, maybe it was a fluke. Maybe the round had half the powder it should have had. Maybe the guy had a double strength sternum, I don't know. We don't know the angle or the distance to the target, or the barrel length for the gun. And it may not have been a 165gr HST round, but almost every .40 cal hollow-point I've seen will go at least 10 inches into gel, and very few make it further than 16". Maybe most .40 cal hollow-points would do it, but for whatever reason this one didn't. But my guess is that if the round was a non-expanding round, it probably would have made it through.

Unfortunately I don't have a test. I'm just flabbergasted!

According to this test: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=5&f=20&t=84278
The 165 gr. HST round penetrated 13.5 inches of gelatin.

Interesting. Thanks for the data!

As a comparison, a BB gun at 600 fps will penetrate about 3.5" of gelatin. A .32 ACP FMJ round will go about 14" into gelatin. And in my tests a 115 gr copper plated 9mm FMJ will penetrate about 31" of gelatin.

I speak of underpenetration mostly in regards to self preservation after the fact.

A sternum is made of bone, which is harder than gelatin, and covered in skin, which is stronger than gelatin. Ballistic Gelatin is an approximation of pig muscle which is an approximation of human muscle. I guess, to me it seems plausible that a .40 caliber hollow-point might fail to penetrate the sternum. Maybe I'm not giving it enough credit, but what I do know is that from the limited evidence I have seen, I would be hesitant to carry a round which seems to have dismal penetration based on my limited sample of things I've seen.

I don't EDC a .40 anymore. I EDC its longer cased brother. :)



Article says he hit the perp 14 times BEFORE the final 3 hits that took him out.

I don't understand your conclusion that he needs range time. By all accounts his marksmanship was excellent. The problem was that the suspect just wasn't incapacitated very quickly. Of course, if he could have gotten head shots earlier on that could have changed things, but police usually train for center of mass shots. Being shot in a fatal location means it kills you eventually. But none of his first 14 hits injured the central nervous system. I believe most of the people who stop fighting after a non CNS hit do so because of psychological reasons. The moral of that story is that you can't expect your bullet to be a fight stopping bullet. I think it is a strong argument for carrying a lot of ammunition. Unless I suppose your marksmanship is so good that you can always nail the brain or spine. But those are small targets, especially on a person who is trying his hardest not to be killed and to kill you at the same time.

/s means sarcasm but he's also not the best shot in the world. Also all this proves is .45 ACP may be insufficient. The "14 shots" guy was shooting a G21, right?

A center mass hit could hit the spine if the bullet goes deep enough. That is another strong argument for a round with decent penetration capability. But because I think most people are obsessed with expansion and using the round that becomes as wide as possible, most commercial hollow-points probably couldn't even make it that deep from a frontal hit. Especially if the suspect has his arms out in front of his body, which he probably will if he is fighting you.

I started out EDC a .40, but it is my secondary now. We could go back and forth about ammo but it is all about perceived personal needs when it comes down to it.

I'll politely shut up now.
 

28kfps

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I know the pregnant comment was about me:lol:
Now I am a young mom to three young boys. I don't take prisoners, alive at least:eek: I am really nice once you get to know me though.

To the OP.

I carry a 5 shot 38 special revolver currently with hollow points(can't think of the brand since my husband bought them). I only carry 5 extra rounds, along with a pocket knife. When I had my bersa Thunder I carried one to two extra mags for a total of 14-21 shots. I carried Speer gold dot.

I have had kids see my gun(not including my own) and never had them touch, though I have seen wide eyed looks of surprise and over heard kids asking their parents about it. Nothing direct to me.

As for events, we do an OC meet once a month here in Las Vegas and we have people from all walks of life. I think right now I am consistently the youngest carrying member that shows up, I am 25. Young, old, purple, or polka dotted, we don't care as long as you dress in a manner that makes you appear as a decent member of society.

So you caught me. I believe the best PR (Public Relations) for open carry is the general public is seeing woman carrying. I am of the opinion most that see a guy carrying stereotypes them as some kind of want to be tough guy, show off or frustrate Rambo.
They see a young lady carrying they have a better chance of seeing it as carrying for their safety. When a mommy is with kids in my opinion removes that stereotype completely. Do enjoy seeing the posting and pictures on FB of moms, dads with kids OCing. Oops off topic however she did ask.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
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Messages
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Nevada
Unlike cops, a citizen doesn't have to END a gunfight. He just needs to get OUT of it. This USUALLY will need fewer bullets of less power.

A typical citizen with a .32 has a greater likelihood of stopping his threat (or getting out of it) than a cop with 100 rounds for his Glock, simply because of the nature of the likely threat.

I'm NOT saying not to carry a .45 (I do) or not to carry extra magazines, just be careful if you bring cop gunfight statistics to support the argument.

"Speak softly and carry an armored tank division, I always say." - Colonel Nathan Jessup, USMC (A Few Good Men)
 
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Felid`Maximus

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Reno, Nevada, USA
The purpose is not to show what is statistically likely but what is entirely possible.

I think many people do not have a realistic understanding of gun shot wounding mechanisms. Too often I hear people say that a .45 hits like Thors hammer and nobody can keep walking after taking one, and "all you need is one bullet." But this I think fosters a dangerous mentality where one may fire off a round and then hesitate to continue because in their mind they know that round should be Thors hammer yet the bad guy might not even seem to react to being hit.

In that video from Dr. Grabinsky, he shows a video too where a robber shoots an unarmed victim, and the victim does not even fall on the floor. He runs away, come back, sits down, stands up and walks around. So even to a regular guy who wasn't any sort of commando, he did not feel like he needed to keel over just from taking one bullet.

And I actually doubt police usually need many shots either. Are they more likely to encounter this situation? Of course they are. They go on the offensive and encircle known dangerous people as a matter of their job whereas most of us try to avoid such people... and these people know they are only getting out in a body bag or in handcuffs and some, (I suspect the minority), will choose the former over the latter.

It is not to say that you will need 100 rounds most of the time, but one should know not to expect when a bullet hits a target to necessarily see a response at all.

It depends too on the motivation of the attacker. The attacker who attacks selfishly to take what you have for himself may be inclined to give up when shot, but that guy who is delusional and thinks you stole his job and his girlfriend and ruined his whole life may not want to stop until you are dead. Even if you never did anything to this guy, some people are totally delusional.

Historically, most mass shooters have shown themselves to be wusses who commit suicide at the first sign of resistance, but these guys have mainly been homegrown people on antidepressants.

But looking at the terrorist attacks in Mumbai, India and in the cartoon shop in France, I anticipate it is only a matter of time before it happens here also and in a place other than a military base. And these guys are not our local wusses that start mass shootings. They are there because they seethe with hatred and these guys will probably shrug off even fatal hits and keep fighting because they know they are going to heaven and believe they are "fighting the good fight."

Of course, a regular Joe has no legal obligation to fight these people and could run off if they had the opportunity. But even if ones inclination is to run off, you might not even be lucky enough to have that opportunity if you are trapped on their killing floor. And if regular Joe does bare witness and fail to act, he should be aware that society will judge him harshly. Just look at what happened to the business owner who had a gun across the street from the I-Hop shooting in Carson City. He suffered some castigation for his inaction (at least on the internet) and not long afterwards he closed down his BBQ joint. In any case he definitely seems to have wished he acted differently based on his own statements. Was the castigation fair? No, I don't think so. If he intervened there was a good chance he would have just been another dead guy. But the castigation still happened. We all live with the consequences of our actions, and the consequences of our inactions.

You're right of course, that the majority of us will probably be okay with a 5 shot revolver and most attackers are not interested in fighting to the death. I'm just saying that I think it is possible to end up in emergency situations where you might like to have some more rounds. Even I carry a 5 shot j-frame often, but I think carrying more ammo just in case is an entirely reasonable choice based on the entirely reasonable possibility that 5 will not be enough.
 
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MAC702

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The purpose is not to show what is statistically likely but what is entirely possible...

Hence the reference to the armored tank division. :)

And, as you reference, in keeping with the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment, we are the militia in defense of our free state. This is best served with more ammunition than personal defense may likely need. The battle rifle in my truck is not for personal defense, but the handgun on my side is to give me a better chance of going to get it for its intended purpose.
 
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mp06011999

Regular Member
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Messages
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Unlike cops, a citizen doesn't have to END a gunfight. He just needs to get OUT of it. This USUALLY will need fewer bullets of less power.

A typical citizen with a .32 has a greater likelihood of stopping his threat (or getting out of it) than a cop with 100 rounds for his Glock, simply because of the nature of the likely threat.

I'm NOT saying not to carry a .45 (I do) or not to carry extra magazines, just be careful if you bring cop gunfight statistics to support the argument.

"Speak softly and carry an armored tank division, I always say." - Colonel Nathan Jessup, USMC (A Few Good Men)

Mac, I agree with you, per usual, and wanted to quote you simply because I agree that much. Not that my post is replying to yours.

***Years ago a buddy and I were discussing which caliber route we were gonna go for personal carry. Obviously a tank would be awesome and in that line of thinking my friend chose 45Auto or 44Special. Me, being cheap, concluded that I would never practice enough with that expensive ammo to be proficient enough. I carry 9mm or 380Auto. And I practice ALOT. My friend hardly shoots at all.

I know the "recoil recovery" comparison of large Vs. smaller caliber has been talked about many times, but not so much the cost of shooting and at that cost how much will you go shooting. Placement is number ONE priority for me. I had to assure I'd actually go shooting enough to make that happen.

Lastly, I carry heavy grain (for my calibers) hollow points because I don't intend (nor want) to shoot through anything more than clothing and at no further away than defense distance. As they say, if he's that far away it's not defense, it's murder. As Mac pointed out, we carry to give us an out, not to END the attacker.

Just some points for the OP to consider. Had enough yet? lol. Told ya it'd go on forever. ;)
 

Felid`Maximus

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Lastly, I carry heavy grain (for my calibers) hollow points because I don't intend (nor want) to shoot through anything more than clothing and at no further away than defense distance. As they say, if he's that far away it's not defense, it's murder. As Mac pointed out, we carry to give us an out, not to END the attacker.

Simply not true. There have been many occasions where a citizen has made long range shots, even past 100 yards, and it was considered justifiable homicide and not murder. You are allowed not only to defend yourself but also to defend any other person in your presence. Imagine being present at the scene of a mass shooting. How likely do you think the guy will only be 7 yards from you?
 
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MAC702

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Simply not true. There have been many occasions where a citizen has made long range shots, even past 100 yards, and it was considered justifiable homicide and not murder. You are allowed not only to defend yourself but also to defend any other person in your presence. Imagine being present at the scene of a mass shooting. How likely do you think the guy will only be 7 yards from you?

Well, in his defense, he didn't mention a distance, nor the weapon of the attacker, so there is a "defense distance" beyond which the DA can (and the media will) give you much grief. If the attacker has a firearm, and poses a clear threat, that distance will be very long. If the attacker has an edged or impact weapon, then we are going to have lots of questions to answer as that distance gets much further than 7-10 yards.

Thank you for the reminder that self defense also includes defense of anyone facing a deadly threat, whether you know them or not. This gives even more latitude to us good guys in a pro-defense state.
 

mp06011999

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I'm simply pointing out, as Mac did, that there is a definite difference between cop carry and citizen carry. That for me, at least, I am carrying to hopefully give me an out from an attack. I am not carrying to enforce the law or to even protect the public. I am carrying to protect me, my loved ones and my property. That may or may not include bystanders. Depends on how I feel that day. lol

While it is possible that the attacker could be in a bell tower across the street or behind a car door next to me, I am carrying for the MORE LIKELY close encounter attack. If I can get ME, MY LOVED ONES & MY PROPERTY to safety without pulling, I will. So while larger ball round calibers would do better with distance and penetrating obstacles, I chose a different set of parameters.

As I posted earlier, what to carry (caliber, weapon or anything at all) is a personal decision one has to make that makes them feel comfortable. And hopefully all these opinions are giving food for thought.
 

FallonJeeper

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Just to be clear, I'm hard pressed to find an example of where shooting somebody long or close range was a part of enforcing laws.

In the long range scenario, if a police sniper takes out a suspect, it's probably to save the lives of hostages or innocent bystanders that a bad guy is intent on shooting. In the close range scenario, it's most likely to defend himself.

I agree self defense isn't about killing somebody. It's about stopping the threat and getting away.

Get away if you can 1st.

If you can't get away you may have to draw your firearm and shoot. Note: if you draw your firearm you should be in the correct mindset and be prepared to shoot. That doesn't mean you have to shoot. If the scenario changes and you get an opportunity to escape or the bad guy withdraws, then you may not have to shoot. Be prepared to adjust, based on the situation. It can change many times over a matter of seconds.

If you're put in a "self defense situation" your life has already just become complicated. You're going to be scrutinized by law enforcement, and by the public. I'm just hoping if you think about the possible scenarios and "what would I do?", you might have a better chance of making good decisions.
 

28kfps

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The purpose is not to show what is statistically likely but what is entirely possible.

I think many people do not have a realistic understanding of gun shot wounding mechanisms. Too often I hear people say that a .45 hits like Thors hammer and nobody can keep walking after taking one, and "all you need is one bullet." But this I think fosters a dangerous mentality where one may fire off a round and then hesitate to continue because in their mind they know that round should be Thors hammer yet the bad guy might not even seem to react to being hit.

In that video from Dr. Grabinsky, he shows a video too where a robber shoots an unarmed victim, and the victim does not even fall on the floor. He runs away, come back, sits down, stands up and walks around. So even to a regular guy who wasn't any sort of commando, he did not feel like he needed to keel over just from taking one bullet.

And I actually doubt police usually need many shots either. Are they more likely to encounter this situation? Of course they are. They go on the offensive and encircle known dangerous people as a matter of their job whereas most of us try to avoid such people... and these people know they are only getting out in a body bag or in handcuffs and some, (I suspect the minority), will choose the former over the latter.

It is not to say that you will need 100 rounds most of the time, but one should know not to expect when a bullet hits a target to necessarily see a response at all.

Code:
It depends too on the motivation of the attacker. The attacker who attacks selfishly to take what you have for himself may be inclined to give up when shot, but that guy who is delusional and thinks you stole his job and his girlfriend and ruined his whole life may not want to stop until you are dead. Even if you never did anything to this guy, some people are totally delusional.

Historically, most mass shooters have shown themselves to be wusses who commit suicide at the first sign of resistance, but these guys have mainly been homegrown people on antidepressants.

But looking at the terrorist attacks in Mumbai, India and in the cartoon shop in France, I anticipate it is only a matter of time before it happens here also and in a place other than a military base. And these guys are not our local wusses that start mass shootings. They are there because they seethe with hatred and these guys will probably shrug off even fatal hits and keep fighting because they know they are going to heaven and believe they are "fighting the good fight."
Code:

Of course, a regular Joe has no legal obligation to fight these people and could run off if they had the opportunity. But even if ones inclination is to run off, you might not even be lucky enough to have that opportunity if you are trapped on their killing floor. And if regular Joe does bare witness and fail to act, he should be aware that society will judge him harshly. Just look at what happened to the business owner who had a gun across the street from the I-Hop shooting in Carson City. He suffered some castigation for his inaction (at least on the internet) and not long afterwards he closed down his BBQ joint. In any case he definitely seems to have wished he acted differently based on his own statements. Was the castigation fair? No, I don't think so. If he intervened there was a good chance he would have just been another dead guy. But the castigation still happened. We all live with the consequences of our actions, and the consequences of our inactions.

You're right of course, that the majority of us will probably be okay with a 5 shot revolver and most attackers are not interested in fighting to the death. I'm just saying that I think it is possible to end up in emergency situations where you might like to have some more rounds. Even I carry a 5 shot j-frame often, but I think carrying more ammo just in case is an entirely reasonable choice based on the entirely reasonable possibility that 5 will not be enough.

One of the many factors to consider in the decision to engage. Not much of a match engaging one or more trained warriors warped in body armor full of ammo carrying ARs willing to die for the cause when armed with only a hand gun. So many factors however odds are charging into an unsafe situation from a somewhat secure or safe mode has a good chance of creating a dead hero. Just an opinion. If the AR guy has one of our family members in one arm the AR in the other, holy carp now what! One of the many what ifs. Good news odds are in our favor it will never happen.

I read somewhere some statistics do not ask me to site, as I do not remember. For those that need a site if it makes them feel better consider this as hear say. However statistics show mass shooters as said weak minded. Most will stop and turn the gun on themselves at the first sign of what they see as equal force. Here is an example and the belief of some that listen to this guy. http://www.kgw.com/story/news/2014/07/24/12405148/. Why didn’t we see this on national news?
Some experts reviewing this are under the impression the shooter saw the guy pointing at him, force on force the fight is over, he (AR guy) took cover finally gets his gun unjammed and ended his own life. Though impossible to prove the conclusion by many that reviewed this seeing the CCW guy take aim and with the jamming change the direction of his intent.
 

mp06011999

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--Most will stop and turn the gun on themselves at the first sign of what they see as equal force. --28k

It would seem to me that these guys (mass killers via a gun) go into it never expecting to come out of it. They probably hate the world and want to take out a few of what they hate before they leave their misery behind. Just guessing...

So yes, I would expect this brand of killer (mass shooters - but I hate that term) to give the least resistance, relatively speaking.
 

MAC702

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...It would seem to me that these guys (mass killers via a gun) go into it never expecting to come out of it...

The last thing those guys want is to be wounded and incapacitated and captured alive.
 
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mp06011999

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so 2nd nature I forget...in a bad way

Here's a bad habit that seems to be happening more lately.....

I tend to carry my little Bersa Thunder 380 more than anything because it IS so light. Well, I guess maybe a little TOO light as I have forgotten it more than once. Yep, walked right out the house with an empty open carry holster! I really need to stop that. I often don't even realize it until I get home and go to take the Bersa out of my holster. Oooops. I wonder how many people saw my empty holster and what they must be thinking.

Perhaps I need to go back to carrying the old heavy Ruger P95 or the Smith 5906 - no chance of not noticing I don't have those on as I have to keep pulling up my pants! lol

Lesson: Triple check yourself.
 

28kfps

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Here's a bad habit that seems to be happening more lately.....

I tend to carry my little Bersa Thunder 380 more than anything because it IS so light. Well, I guess maybe a little TOO light as I have forgotten it more than once. Yep, walked right out the house with an empty open carry holster! I really need to stop that. I often don't even realize it until I get home and go to take the Bersa out of my holster. Oooops. I wonder how many people saw my empty holster and what they must be thinking.

Perhaps I need to go back to carrying the old heavy Ruger P95 or the Smith 5906 - no chance of not noticing I don't have those on as I have to keep pulling up my pants! lol

Lesson: Triple check yourself.

Triple check, agree. I too have to stay on top of my game. The older I get and the years of open carrying becoming complacent can sneak up on me if I do not stay on top of the as you say triple check.
 
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