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Latest man to die by Taser in Los Angeles

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
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Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Being elderly, 75years old with a defibrillator I am worried if I get a nervous LE. I though I live in WV we are not required to inform the LE when carrying I will tell them first thing. LE in our area are very quick to use a tazer.

Do what you think is best, but I would advise you to consider this very, very carefully.

Which is more likely: that the cop searches you and finds your lawfully carried gun, and then tasers you, or that you inform him and he immediately decides he needs to "disarm" you at taser point, and then tases you anyway?

Both have happened.

Personally, I would not inform. I wouldn't consent to any searches, either.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
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Aug 13, 2007
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Fairfax County, Virginia
http://missoulian.com/news/state-an...cle_d73e039a-a50e-11e2-93a9-0019bb2963f4.html


When multiple police officers cant subdue a 77 yr old man with dementia then they have no business being on the streets "protecting and serving" the public.

+1

I remember, on this very forum, a cop lecturing us with the old saw, "when all you have is hammer, every problem begins to look like a nail."

The irony was immense.

(I hate spelling it out when I do that, but this time I think it's necessary...) Police are the ones who respond to every situation with a tool from the same bag: force, usually of the potentially lethal variety. Their training is of the militaristic variety, viewing themselves "at war" with an enemy who literally constitutes, potentially, every one of us. So it should be no surprise: some dotard escapes from his nursing home, and they respond by fatally tasing him.

Because God forbid they treat him how any of us might.

Folks, it's time to assert the plain truth: it is never OK to legitimize initiatory force. There is no police force, no government, no army on earth which can be trusted with such.

This is the big lie of modern government, and it's become viewed as near truth: that initiatory force is necessary, somehow even good, but only (of course) when government has a monopoly on it; we "need" aggressive police, and aggressive foreign policy/military – for safety.

It's not right, and it's not compatible with sustained liberty. Government is best which governs least, and in practice that means no initiatory force; the government ought only to provide a mechanism for reprisal against prior acts of initiatory force (aggression).

To put it plainly, the law – and its long arm – have never worked as a proactive means. At best government/law is merely reactive – proactivity is up to each of us, individually. We don't need tough guy cops in BDUs patrolling around, looking for people to tase – or homes to invade pursuant to criminally immoral weapon, or drug (or what have you) prohibitions. That whole system – throw it in the garbage where it belongs. It's time to return to minimalist law and policing.

Liberty has long demanded it, and now safety does, too. For, the trade of liberty for safety only works, if at all, for so long. Beyond a certain point, there is a catastrophic reversal wherein both liberty and safety are lost – as Benjamin Franklin observed, and countless societies suffering under self-imposed dictatorships have experienced.

The proliferation of occurrences like these, in communities near each of us, all over the country, are the first signs of this reversal, I'm afraid.
 
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palerider116

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Nov 14, 2010
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Unknown
"If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary."

James Madison
Federalist No. 51
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
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Nov 15, 2006
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18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
.....we are not angels and we went a very long time in this country without proactive "law enFORCEment".....

Agreed.

Plus, having read up on the constitutional convention, critiques on the Federalist Papers, and Madison's true feelings about the Bill of Rights, he would be one of the last people I would cite. I'd sooner quote a die-hard statist like George Washington.
 

JoeSparky

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Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
http://missoulian.com/news/state-an...cle_d73e039a-a50e-11e2-93a9-0019bb2963f4.html


When multiple police officers cant subdue a 77 yr old man with dementia then they have no business being on the streets "protecting and serving" the public.

When one no matter how irrational believes they are fighting for their very life---- THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR THEIR VERY LIFE! And someone with dementia MAY NOT follow ANY instructions or be rational....

No, I may not like the seemingly all to frequent use of tasers, BUT, I prefer Tasers to the same frequency of use of FIREARMS INSTEAD!
 

Ca Patriot

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Feb 25, 2010
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When one no matter how irrational believes they are fighting for their very life---- THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR THEIR VERY LIFE! And someone with dementia MAY NOT follow ANY instructions or be rational....

No, I may not like the seemingly all to frequent use of tasers, BUT, I prefer Tasers to the same frequency of use of FIREARMS INSTEAD!

I dont care how hard a 77 yr old man is fighting. Multiple police officers should be able to subdue him without a tazer.
 

Beretta92FSLady

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Dec 14, 2009
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In My Coffee
I dont care how hard a 77 yr old man is fighting. Multiple police officers should be able to subdue him without a tazer.

Who are you to armchair quarterback their response? You we're there, you don't know what level of force was necessary.

If an officer think it necessary to use force against me, I hope he uses a taser over his sidearm.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
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Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Hmm, you do not agrees, huh....ok.

I never stated I was aggressing.

Then why would you ever allow for a scenario in which a cop decides he's going to shoot you, or tase you?

If you're in that situation, the problem is the cop decided he needed to use force against you in the first place.

It's like asking a rapist to use a condom. Sure, it would be better to be raped with a condom than without. But most people would so
far prefer not being raped at all that that's the outcome the focus their energies on.
 

Ca Patriot

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If an officer think it necessary to use force against me, I hope he uses a taser over his sidearm.

Yeah, in America today you get two options.....50,000 volts to the heart and then brain damage for life when you fall.....OR.......9 gun shot wounds to various parts of your body
 

eye95

Well-known member
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Jan 6, 2010
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13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Yeah, in America today you get two options.....50,000 volts to the heart and then brain damage for life when you fall.....OR.......9 gun shot wounds to various parts of your body

Tasers are a less lethal option than firearms. Personally, I think it is good that they have an option between club and firearm. I am sure that, net, lives have been saved by having this option, despite rare (but highly publicized) fatalities.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 

marshaul

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Tasers are a less lethal option than firearms. Personally, I think it is good that they have an option between club and firearm. I am sure that, net, lives have been saved by having this option, despite rare (but highly publicized) fatalities.

Hey, look, once again B92FSL and eye95 are arguing the same thing.

As has been thoroughly made clear, nobody's saying we'd prefer police shoot all the people they've tased.

What we're concerned with is initiatory force, or at the very least lax use of force policies, and how tasers contribute to the further relaxing of the policies.
 

eye95

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Context, folks. Read my post and the one to which I was responding. There was an implication of certain and extreme harm from a taser when that is rarely the case. I am not arguing anything, just pointing out the obvious.

Moving on.
 
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marshaul

Campaign Veteran
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Aug 13, 2007
Messages
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Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Context, folks. Read my post and the one to which I was responding. There was an implication of certain and extreme harm from a taser when that is rarely the case. I am not arguing anything, just pointing out the obvious.

I'll take your word for it, but that begs the question of why you bothered posting at all. It's been pointed out before, as is as obvious as the sky is blue.

Frankly, it's so obvious and trivial a conclusion, I'm inclined to conclude its incessant repetition by B92FSL, and now yourself, is tantamount to a red herring.

Why accept that tasers are routinely abused, when you can continue to irrelevantly point out that handguns are deadlier (duh), amirite?

But I'll take your word for it.
 
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