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I told ya so! I get frustrated when people say cops are basically pro gun

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Sheriff

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I get so frustrated when I hear people say that cops are basically pro gun. Nothing is further from the truth in Virginia!

Read the following from VDCL e-mail:


The following anti-gun bills were KILLED, er, actually, CRUSHED, tonight in the House Militia, Police and Public Safety subcommittee #1:

HB 2343 - Delegate Morrissey's bill to criminalize the consumption of an alcoholic beverage in a restaurant by someone who is openly carrying a handgun died **unanimously.** A Richmond police officer in UNIFORM came to speak for all the gun control bills, including this one. That was awfully rich from someone who is allowed by the law to carry a concealed handgun and drink. What a hypocrite.
 

NovaCop

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I get so frustrated when I hear people say that cops are basically pro gun. Nothing is further from the truth in Virginia!

Read the following from VDCL e-mail:


The following anti-gun bills were KILLED, er, actually, CRUSHED, tonight in the House Militia, Police and Public Safety subcommittee #1:

HB 2343 - Delegate Morrissey's bill to criminalize the consumption of an alcoholic beverage in a restaurant by someone who is openly carrying a handgun died **unanimously.** A Richmond police officer in UNIFORM came to speak for all the gun control bills, including this one. That was awfully rich from someone who is allowed by the law to carry a concealed handgun and drink. What a hypocrite.

One officer? ONE?!?! Guess that one officer's viewpoint represents every LEO in VA. I think everyone on the forum is smart enough to realize that one person can't represent such a large group. It's like saying one OCer represents the entire VCDL. You told us so? HAha, comedy. Nice effort to start a LEO bashing thread.
 
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TFred

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While "one" does not represent the whole, it's clear that this particular one, dressed in uniform, exhibited extremely poor judgment in his clear attempt to imply that he was speaking for, or on behalf of his profession.

This might be one bad apple, but he was trying his hardest to rot the rest of the barrel as well.

TFred
 

peter nap

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While "one" does not represent the whole, it's clear that this particular one, dressed in uniform, exhibited extremely poor judgment in his clear attempt to imply that he was speaking for, or on behalf of his profession.

This might be one bad apple, but he was trying his hardest to rot the rest of the barrel as well.

TFred

I'll put the video up of him speaking on all the bills Tfred.
He did convey the idea that he spoke for the PD and if I recall, at one time he said "The Richmond PD opposes or supports.

I'll get to it as quick as possible.
 

TFred

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I'll put the video up of him speaking on all the bills Tfred.
He did convey the idea that he spoke for the PD and if I recall, at one time he said "The Richmond PD opposes or supports.

I'll get to it as quick as possible.
If so, that would remove "attempt to imply" from the equation.

It's rather mind-numbing that people who we pay to enforce the law think they should be able tell us what the law ought to be.

I sure wish I could tell my boss what I think my job ought to be too.

ETA: And what do you want to bet he was "on the clock" as well!?

TFred
 
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NovaCop

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Even if the officer was in uniform and spoke for his department, I don't see why that should be condemned. These are legal bills, and groups take stances on them. Is it illegal for an officer to have their own opinions? No. Should they ever violate rights? No. Can an officer have his own opinions and not violate rights? Yes and if they do, there are consequences.

I am in favor of this bill as well. Like I have said before, I don't think ANYONE should be allowed to carry a loaded gun and drink (even one drink). That includes LEOs (and the harbormaster). In fact, My department and every other department I have asked, already prohibits drinking and carrying as a violation could mean job termination. I haven't heard any opinion about this bill other than it "makes LEOs think they are better than us" stance. I would argue to change the clause to say ANYONE. I don't think that being pro some gun control means that you oppose gun rights.

I will admit that I personally would not support a bill in uniform because too many LEO bashers would attempt to generalize me with all LEOs. However, if this department has come to this conclusion on their own, then I don't see why they can't have their own opinions to support legislation or not. Especially if they believe it involves their job safety.
 

NovaCop

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If so, that would remove "attempt to imply" from the equation.

It's rather mind-numbing that people who we pay to enforce the law think they should be able tell us what the law ought to be.

I sure wish I could tell my boss what I think my job ought to be too.

TFred


That's right, lets just revoke voting rights for LEOs. They obviously aren't apart of the democracy we live in. Can a post get anymore ignorant?
 
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TFred

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That's right, lets just revoke voting rights for LEOs. They obviously aren't apart of the democracy we live in. Can a post get anymore ignorant?
I think you answered your own question there...

I didn't say anything about removing voting rights, and I don't care if a LEO comes to speak at a committee as a private citizen.

I do not think any LE organization should lobby for or against controversial laws. If they have suggestions for things that could improve law enforcement generally, then I don't have a problem with them proposing changes, but to lobby in areas where the public is clearly divided is absolutely inappropriate.

These folks work for us. That seems to be a difficult concept for some. We tell them what to do, not the other way around.

You don't hire a painter to come in and paint your house white, and expect him to stand there arguing with you that it should be blue instead.

I'm reminded of an incident that took place a couple summers ago. I had traveled to Richmond to speak before an off-session subcommittee meeting on the privacy of CHP applicant information. As I was leaving, I shared the elevator with one of the aides to the subcommittee. He quietly thanked me for coming and speaking on the subject, and said that even though many of them felt strongly about issues, as staff, they were not allowed to take public stances.

That's exactly how it should be with LE organizations. They are a part of the system of laws and enforcing laws, they should not be attempting to influence the will of the people.

TFred
 

Walt_Kowalski

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I am in favor of this bill as well. Like I have said before, I don't think ANYONE should be allowed to carry a loaded gun and drink (even one drink). That includes LEOs (and the harbormaster). In fact, My department and every other department I have asked, already prohibits drinking and carrying as a violation could mean job termination. I haven't heard any opinion about this bill other than it "makes LEOs think they are better than us" stance. I would argue to change the clause to say ANYONE. I don't think that being pro some gun control means that you oppose gun rights.

I respectfully disagree on this. I don't see the problem that this bill was trying to fix. I don't see reports of belligerently drunk open/concealed carriers being picked up en mass. Other than the ONE idiot that shot himself in the leg at a bar, conceal carrying, drinking (while Breaking the current law), I have not heard of this being an issue in the first place. I think that this is another one of those feel good laws that will make more people 'feel' better, but accomplish nothing other than limiting our rights.

I don't condone drinking and carrying a firearm, I don't really drink hardly myself. But what if I was at dinner and decided to have a beer, or a glass of wine with my significant other? Since I'd be OC, I would not be breaking any law.. but if this bill passed I would have to take my sidearm out to the car and secure it in my safe? Now what if I get mugged on the way out of the establishment?

I'm glad this bill was dismissed, and I would have fought it even if it did not make exemptions for Harbormasters, police, and lawyers, etc.
 

vt357

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He quietly thanked me for coming and speaking on the subject, and said that even though many of them felt strongly about issues, as staff, they were not allowed to take public stances.

That's exactly how it should be with LE organizations. They are a part of the system of laws and enforcing laws, they should not be attempting to influence the will of the people.

Kind of like how it's against regulations for a member of the armed forces to participate in political activities in uniform. Lobby however you want as a private citizen, leave your uniform at home.
 

Repeater

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LEO calls Sawed-Off shotgun a 'Terrorist weapon'

In testifying AGAINST Senator Vogel's State Preemption bill, a campus cop made numerous idiotic statements including calling a sawed-off shotgun a known Terrorist Weapon.

So, of course guns need to be banned from campus.

Throughout this session, LEO's have worked AGAINST liberty.

A State Police guy spoke against Delegate Miller. Why, his CWP would allow concealed carry of machine guns!

A Lynchburg Police Chief wanted mandatory Stop and provide ID or else, because it's another tool to help law enforcement.

There is a pattern at work and it's not good for freedom-loving Virginians.
 

Thundar

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One officer? ONE?!?! Guess that one officer's viewpoint represents every LEO in VA. I think everyone on the forum is smart enough to realize that one person can't represent such a large group. It's like saying one OCer represents the entire VCDL. You told us so? HAha, comedy. Nice effort to start a LEO bashing thread.

FUnny I don't say this often, but you are right Novacop. This guy does not represent all LEOs. The problem is that he is trying to use the authority of his badge and uniform to influence the lawmakers. It reinforces an incorrect stereotype of LEOs as being anti-gun. Most LEOs I have met, like others that regularly carry firearms, are very pro gun.

DOn't get too upset at those that want to hate on the Richmond cop. That idiot deserves what he gets because he is so arrogant as to believe that his uniform, not his intellect, makes his opinion more important than mere citizens.
 

The Wolfhound

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It is called lobbying

My wife, a State Employee, is not allowed to lobby for or against legislation. Why is this police officer allowed to do so? I am not asking for him to lose his job or his voting rights, but a paid employee of the public should not be allowed to lobby. If he is invited in to give expert testimony, I will grant exception. I do not agree to paying him to undermine our rights. That is my disagreement with his appearing.
 
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epilogue

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I don't think that being pro some gun control means that you oppose gun rights.

Actually, any form of gun control is synonymous with infringement.

That's right, lets just revoke voting rights for LEOs. They obviously aren't apart of the democracy we live in. Can a post get anymore ignorant?

When you're on duty, you're still a citizen, you don't suddenly transform into a justice dispensing vendor machine that laws don't apply to, you're a Joe with a job. Using the uniform, station, rank, or whats painted on the side of your car to try and wield greater influence is what pisses me off. It's not limited to alphabet agencies either, Congress is in the same boat when they pass laws that exempt them.

Otherwise, I should be running around telling the Internet how things should be done because of what I do for a paycheck.
 

nova

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In testifying AGAINST Senator Vogel's State Preemption bill, a campus cop made numerous idiotic statements including calling a sawed-off shotgun a known Terrorist Weapon.

So, of course guns need to be banned from campus.

Do you know what university PD he works for?
 

t33j

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A State Police guy spoke against Delegate Miller. Why, his CWP would allow concealed carry of machine guns!

I was very surprised the first time I heard this. I hadn't even considered that MGs were a part of "weapon". So I called up the VSP and asked for all registered MG info including make/model and city/county or area code to determine how many CCable machine guns existed in VA. At first it seemed like it wouldn't be any trouble at all but I eventually found out that that information is not available for public inspection.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-295
 
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