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Forfeit Firearms

Sheriff

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This just ain't right. Read the portion in red font.

September 10, 2009

Bradley Rees, a candidate for the Republican nomination to run for Congress from the 5th District in 2010, was convicted Wednesday of illegally possessing concealed weapons.

Rees was fined $100 in Lynchburg General District Court, and said afterward he would “absolutely” continue his campaign to unseat Rep. Tom Perriello, D-5th District.

“It’s nothing I’m ashamed of,” Rees said, adding that he thought keeping two handguns in his car was safer than keeping them at home, where he has “two curious kids.”

“Your successes shape you as much as your failures,” Rees said.

Rees pleaded no contest in court, and said later that the violation occurred a month before he announced his candidacy on June 25.

According to a prosecutor’s evidence summary, Lynchburg police stopped Rees’ car on May 21 because it displayed an expired inspection rejection sticker.

When the two officers asked Rees to look in the glove box for his vehicle registration, he told them he had a loaded .380-caliber handgun in the box.

He also told them there was an unloaded .45-caliber semi-automatic handgun on the floor. Rees did not have a permit for carrying concealed weapons.

If the firearms had been in plain view on the seat, they would have been legal, Rees said. But he also felt he couldn’t leave the guns in sight while the vehicle was parked at work, he said.

>>>>>> Police confiscated both guns, and Judge Harold Black ruled Wednesday that Rees must forfeit them <<<<<<<.

Rees said he had planned to take a hunter-safety course that would have qualified him to apply for a concealed-weapons permit. The course was taught by a friend in Appomattox, Rees said, “and I figured that as long as somebody was going to get paid for it, it might as well be someone I know.”

Twice, however, he was required to work on the Saturdays the course was being taught, so he hadn’t yet acquired the proof of firearms proficiency that is required for a concealed-weapons permit.

Rees said his car had failed a state inspection because of bad brakes and taillight.

He had fixed the brakes, he said, and was on his way to buy a light bulb after work, about 5:30 p.m., when police pulled him over.

Although officers charged Rees with two concealed-weapons offenses and having an expired sticker, he was convicted of just one weapons violation.

The inspection charge was dismissed because the car had been fixed, prosecutor Mike Doucette said.

Rees is one of three announced candidates for the 5th District seat. The other candidates are Feda Kidd Morton, a schoolteacher in Fluvanna County, and Laurence Verga, a real estate investor from Ivy in Albemarle County.
 

Neplusultra

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I don't see how the judge has authority to do so? Due to my indictment the issuing judge for my permit "revoked" the permit, which the law does not allow him to do. VA Code 18.2-308 J2 plainly states:

J2. An individual who has a felony charge pending or a charge pending for an offense listed in subdivision E 14 or E 15, holding a permit for a concealed handgun, may have the permit suspended by the court before which such charge is pending or by the court that issued the permit.

That doesn't stop him from doing what he did. It's just going to cost me time and probably money to get it rectified. If found innocent I wonder if I can recover costs from the court since it's their error? I imagine there would be a process I'd have to go through anyway to get it "unsuspended".....

I imagine this guy will have to do the same. Not sure if he'll be able to recover costs. I would hope he would be able to.
 

peter nap

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I'm not sure why this is news worthy Sheriff.

Not a real big deal except it gives Perriello, some ammunition. Perriello, isn't real well liked in that area anyway, by anyone but college kids. That's what allowed him to beat Goode.

We all know it and no one I know plans to vote Perriello.

A far as the charge goes, not much to cry about. Losing the guns is a bitch, but he knew that would happen if he got caught. Really pretty stupid. If you CC illegally, you don't keep it in the glove box.
 

peter nap

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Neplusultra wrote:
Pete, if it's a misdemeanor fine of $100 why or what code allows confiscation of perhaps thousands of dollars worth of firearms?
That's true Nep, and he could appeal it and get them back I expect. But then I look out of my window at this less than perfect world, and realize that he had one charge dropped and the Judge and the Commonwealth played the game with him.

On appeal, it's a new trial, more attorney fees and the chance of two convictions and maybe a little jail time.

He understands it's cheaper to just buy a couple new guns. I don't like the system, I just see it.
 

Neplusultra

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peter nap wrote:
Neplusultra wrote:
Pete, if it's a misdemeanor fine of $100 why or what code allows confiscation of perhaps thousands of dollars worth of firearms?
That's true Nep, and he could appeal it and get them back I expect. But then I look out of my window at this less than perfect world, and realize that he had one charge dropped and the Judge and the Commonwealth played the game with him.

On appeal, it's a new trial, more attorney fees and the chance of two convictions and maybe a little jail time.

He understands it's cheaper to just buy a couple new guns. I don't like the system, I just see it.
Would it have to be a new trial? Couldn't he just contest the confiscation?
 

peter nap

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Neplusultra wrote:
peter nap wrote:
Neplusultra wrote:
Pete, if it's a misdemeanor fine of $100 why or what code allows confiscation of perhaps thousands of dollars worth of firearms?
That's true Nep, and he could appeal it and get them back I expect. But then I look out of my window at this less than perfect world, and realize that he had one charge dropped and the Judge and the Commonwealth played the game with him.

On appeal, it's a new trial, more attorney fees and the chance of two convictions and maybe a little jail time.

He understands it's cheaper to just buy a couple new guns. I don't like the system, I just see it.
Would it have to be a new trial? Couldn't he just contest the confiscation?
I expect that was part of the deal with the Commonwealth. I'll leave it to the legal experts to see if the CA could demand a new trial...but I wouldn't chance it.
 

ProShooter

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Back in the day, I made a concealed weapon arrest. Guy showed up AT THE COURTHOUSE OF ALL PLACES with a loaded 9mm handgun in his backpack (and about 1000 of those little 1inch zip lock baggies...hhmmm)

He was at the courthouse for a pending domestic assault charge. We found him lurking around the secure sallyport area. I arrested him for carrying a concealed weapon w/o a permit and for being in possession of a firearm while subject to a protective order.

The concealed weapon charge went to GD court, the protective order charge went to JVDR court. The GD judge said nothing about the gun's disposition. The JVDR judge ordered the gun forfeited and turned over to the State Police for destruction.

I didn't argue with the Judge, an order is an order. I filled out my SP-181 form and the gun went on its merry way. Do they have the judicial authority to order a gun's forfeiture? I dunno, but I sure wasn't going to question it!


I can also tell you that years ago, judges would ask convicted people if they owned guns and would require them to turn the guns over to the Sheriff. We had an old safe in the courthouse that no one remembered the combo to. Hadn't been used in 30+ years. We had a locksmith come one day and pop it open. In it were a few guns with zero records or information as to who they belonged to.
 

Sheriff

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ProShooter wrote:
I can also tell you that years ago, judges would ask convicted people if they owned guns and would require them to turn the guns over to the Sheriff. We had an old safe in the courthouse that no one remembered the combo to. Hadn't been used in 30+ years. We had a locksmith come one day and pop it open. In it were a few guns with zero records or information as to who they belonged to.
And only God knows how many guns weren't in the safe that were suppose to be there. :D
 

peter nap

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Sheriff wrote:
ProShooter wrote:
I can also tell you that years ago, judges would ask convicted people if they owned guns and would require them to turn the guns over to the Sheriff. We had an old safe in the courthouse that no one remembered the combo to. Hadn't been used in 30+ years. We had a locksmith come one day and pop it open. In it were a few guns with zero records or information as to who they belonged to.
And only God knows how many guns weren't in the safe that were suppose to be there. :D
Richmond had a big to do a few years ago when guns and other things, were missing from the evidence room. One of the support officers (Female) fessed up to me that a lot of the women got guns if they were nice. I didn't ask about specifics:uhoh:
 

Sheriff

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Perhaps this answers the question? Still doesn't seem right though!

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§ 19.2-386.28. Forfeiture of weapons that are concealed, possessed, transported or carried in violation of law.

Any firearm, stun weapon as defined by § 18.2-308.1, or any weapon concealed, possessed, transported or carried in violation of §§ 18.2-283.1, 18.2-287.4, 18.2-308.1:2, 18.2-308.1:3, 18.2-308.1:4, 18.2-308.2, 18.2-308.2:01, 18.2-308.2:1, 18.2-308.4, 18.2-308.5, 18.2-308.7, or § 18.2-308.8 shall be forfeited to the Commonwealth and disposed of as provided in § 19.2-386.29.

(2004, c. 995; 2007, c. 519.)

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§ 19.2-386.29. Forfeiture of certain weapons used in commission of criminal offense.

All pistols, shotguns, rifles, dirks, bowie knives, switchblade knives, ballistic knives, razors, slingshots, brass or metal knucks, blackjacks, stun weapons, and other weapons used by any person in the commission of a criminal offense, shall, upon conviction of such person, be forfeited to the Commonwealth by order of the court trying the case. The court shall dispose of such weapons as it deems proper by entry of an order of record. Such disposition may include the destruction of the weapons or, subject to any registration requirements of federal law, sale of the firearms to a licensed dealer in such firearms in accordance with the provisions of Chapter 22 (§ 19.2-369 et seq.) of this title regarding sale of property forfeited to the Commonwealth.

The proceeds of any sale of such weapon shall be paid in accordance with the provisions of Article VIII, Section 8 of the Constitution of Virginia. In addition, the court may authorize the seizing law-enforcement agency to use the weapon for a period of time as specified in the order. When the seizing agency ceases to so use the weapon, it shall be disposed of as otherwise provided in this section.

However, upon petition to the court and notice to the attorney for the Commonwealth, the court, upon good cause shown, shall return any such weapon to its lawful owner after conclusion of all relevant proceedings if such owner (i) did not know and had no reason to know of the conduct giving rise to the forfeiture and (ii) is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the weapon. The owner shall acknowledge in a sworn affidavit to be filed with the record in the case or cases that he has retaken possession of the weapon involved.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-270; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15, § 18.2-310; 1986, cc. 445, 641; 1988, c. 359; 1990, cc. 556, 944; 2004, c. 995; 2007, c. 519.)

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Sheriff

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peter nap wrote:
Richmond had a big to do a few years ago when guns and other things, were missing from the evidence room. One of the support officers (Female) fessed up to me that a lot of the women got guns if they were nice. I didn't ask about specifics:uhoh:
I think anybody with an IQ over 56 can figure out the specifics! :lol:
 

Sheriff

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ProShooter wrote:
Sheriff wrote:
Perhaps this answers the question? Still doesn't seem right though!
That is probably it! I never looked at that statute before.....interesting.

I knew the law existed, I just didn't know the exact wording until I had time to look it up just now. Now that I look at it, it seems pretty simple and forthwith, all you really need to read is...

§ 19.2-386.29 "...weapons used by any person in the commission of a criminal offense, shall, upon conviction of such person, be forfeited to the Commonwealth by order of the court trying the case. The court shall dispose of such weapons as it deems proper by entry of an order..."

Rees was charged with a criminal offense. He was convicted. Judge ordered weapons be forfeited.

Still doesn't seem right!!!!It's a petty criminal offense. :banghead:
 

nova

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Sheriff wrote:
ProShooter wrote:
Sheriff wrote:
Perhaps this answers the question? Still doesn't seem right though!
That is probably it! I never looked at that statute before.....interesting.

I knew the law existed, I just didn't know the exact wording until I had time to look it up just now. Now that I look at it, it seems pretty simple and forthwith, all you really need to read is...

§ 19.2-386.29 "...weapons used by any person in the commission of a criminal offense, shall, upon conviction of such person, be forfeited to the Commonwealth by order of the court trying the case. The court shall dispose of such weapons as it deems proper by entry of an order..."

Rees was charged with a criminal offense. He was convicted. Judge ordered weapons be forfeited.

Still doesn't seem right!!!!It's a petty criminal offense. :banghead:
I remember reading somewhere in the code that if it can be demonstrated a good reason to not forfeit the firearm (like if it was stolen if I had to guess) then they won't forfeit it.
 

Grapeshot

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Sheriff wrote:
ProShooter wrote:
Sheriff wrote:
Perhaps this answers the question? Still doesn't seem right though!
That is probably it! I never looked at that statute before.....interesting.

I knew the law existed, I just didn't know the exact wording until I had time to look it up just now. Now that I look at it, it seems pretty simple and forthwith, all you really need to read is...

§ 19.2-386.29 "...weapons used by any person in the commission of a criminal offense, shall, upon conviction of such person, be forfeited to the Commonwealth by order of the court trying the case. The court shall dispose of such weapons as it deems proper by entry of an order..."

Rees was charged with a criminal offense. He was convicted. Judge ordered weapons be forfeited.

Still doesn't seem right!!!!It's a petty criminal offense. :banghead:
How exactly was the weapon(s) used "in the commission of a criminal offense" in this case. No armed robbery, no stick-up, no drive-by shooting.

If this conviction is valid given that driving on an expired sticker or rejection sticker is illegal, then why should not guns be subject to forfeiture for speeding violations? Upon conviction of course.

Not having a CHP and improperly stored in his car was stupid, but I don't see how that constitutes used in the commission of a criminal offense.

Yata hey
 

Sheriff

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Grapeshot wrote:
How exactly was the weapon(s) used "in the commission of a criminal offense" in this case.
Rees was convictedof illegally possessing concealed weapons. The guns therefore were used in the commission of this crime.

There's probably thousands of cases like this across Virginia every year. I think each and every one of them stink to high heaven.
 

wylde007

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Sheriff wrote:
Rees was convictedof illegally possessing concealed weapons. The guns therefore were used in the commission of this crime.
Wow, that's a heck of a technicality. They don't suppose it is physically impossible to illegally conceal a weapon and not have the weapon be party to the crime of being illegally concealed? :?

Derp. :D
 

Repeater

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Sheriff wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
How exactly was the weapon(s) used "in the commission of a criminal offense" in this case.
Rees was convictedof illegally possessing concealed weapons. The guns therefore were used in the commission of this crime.
Indeed, Rees was convicted of violating § 18.2-308.

Therefore, Va. Code § 19.2-386.27 applies:

"Any weapon used in the commission of a violation of § 18.2-308 shall be forfeited to the Commonwealth and may be seized by an officer as forfeited, and such as may be needed for police officers, conservators of the peace, and the Department of Forensic Science shall be devoted to that purpose, subject to any registration requirements of federal law, and the remainder shall be disposed of as provided in § 19.2-386.29."

The final paragraph of § 19.2-386.29 would still apply, though. It depends on whether Rees can satisfy the "good cause shown" --

...the court, upon good cause shown, shall return any such weapon to its lawful owner after conclusion of all relevant proceedings if such owner (i) did not know and had no reason to know of the conduct giving rise to the forfeiture and (ii) is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the weapon.
 
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