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Fl Senate once again kills open carry, campus carry

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
Uh, before you all run out and start strapping on Single Action Dragoons from 1899, why not just work with what we have now and actually carry a sidearm that you can use!
Keep doing more of what doesn't work. Awesome plan! You keep doing that.
No need to look for a confrontation with anyone. Just open carry legally and go about your business.
Confrontation? Supposedly clever implantation of accusatory language where it doesn't belong.... Who wants a confrontation? We know those opposed will create a scene and confrontation. Yes. Does that mean we hide under the bed and wet our panties and continue to let our masters own us? Your false framing of the matter tells us much about you.

I don't want a confrontation. I just know there is bound to be one, and wish to be prepared for it. That's how it goes when you fight the status quo. No one will like it. "That's not how I would have done it..." etc. There is no right way that will make everyone happy. Because, it's defiance of the status quo. By definition, many won't like it. There will be detractors. The most extreme will use slander, fraud, lies, and even violence to maintain their status quo. If you're too scared to even show up for the fight, you've already lost. I don't want it that way, that's just how it is. You may as well accuse me of making the wind blow.

I do go about my business legally open carrying. In fact, I just got in and my 1911 is still on my belt. But that was up in Georgia, where I spend my money. Smok'n Pig. Random gas station I don't remember. Home Depot. Books A Million, where a guy asked me what kind of holster I had. Best Buy, where a younger fellow had to show me his concealed Glock...

Florida's definition of "Antique Firearm" explicitily defines "Antique Farearms" as "not Firearms." Kinda weird language. But the definitions section of that Statute says it. This cannot be re-defined elsewhere in the same section. So, what is stated in 790.001 must be applied to 790.053 and 790.06.

See: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...r-open-carry&p=2183390&viewfull=1#post2183390
 
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ADulay

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
512
Location
Punta Gorda, Florida, USA
Confrontation? Supposedly clever implantation of accusatory language where it doesn't belong.... Your false framing of the matter tells us much about you.

ixtow,

Wow. Try a little decaf.

I wasn't accusing you of anything.

The message was merely a reply to the thread, not to you, personally.

I added my two cents. You took it as an affront to your ideas of how to change the system in Florida.

No offense intended.

I'll just go back to my daily open carry for now. The rest of you (not YOU, personally, ixtow) can duke it out here and figure out a better way.

AD
 

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
What a concept.


No need to look for a confrontation with anyone. Just open carry legally and go about your business.

AD

It's already legal because the Constitution says it is. Accept it for what is says as the final authority


What a concept [emoji14]

I must be a dangerous extremist that should be assassinated by the government. I actually have the nerve to honor the highest law in the land. I must be quite disgusting

Sent from my HTC Desire 626s using Tapatalk
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
ixtow,

Wow. Try a little decaf.

I wasn't accusing you of anything.
Just making my point. Solidly. You inserted the "looking for a confrontation" bit. Confrontation is precisely what happens when you, uh, confront, the status quo. That's the definition of what it is... So, do nothing? I can't do nothing and live with myself, I have a conscience. Yes. It gets me riled up a bit.

How can one disrupt an established norm, evil or not, without, uh, disrupting the established norm?

It's flagrantly stupid to suggest that you can do X without doing X. Duh.

Me: "Lets do X!"
You: "Somebody that hates us no matter what we do might get their knickers in a knot about us doing X."
Me: "So?"
You: "Lets do X by not doing X. That's a lot less objectionable and still does X! That's a much better idea!"
Me: "You realize you just said that incredible bullsh!t out loud, right?"
You: "Try decaf, don't get your panties in a bunch! We're totally going to do X by not doing X!"
Me: [facepalm]

There are a lot of people who hate the fact that I am alive. Does that mean I should kill myself? Whatever...

Confrontation is how sh!t gets done. I'm disgusted by how pussified this country is. Even among the so-called "shock troops" of the pro-human-rights movement that is Open Carry, still; a bunch of nancies afraid someone might "be offended" if they crack a few eggs to make an omelette....

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Knowing this to be true, when good men still persist in doing nothing, they cease to be good men.

I cannot accept that as a definition of myself. Therefore, I do. Something. Anything. Sitting on my thumbs is not an option.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shDFGSd1E_Q

P.S. I edited it, but I accidentally said "trump of evil" instead of "triumph of evil." Freud would be proud.
 
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hammer6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,461
Location
Florida
Keep doing more of what doesn't work. Awesome plan! You keep doing that.

Confrontation? Supposedly clever implantation of accusatory language where it doesn't belong.... Who wants a confrontation? We know those opposed will create a scene and confrontation. Yes. Does that mean we hide under the bed and wet our panties and continue to let our masters own us? Your false framing of the matter tells us much about you.

I don't want a confrontation. I just know there is bound to be one, and wish to be prepared for it. That's how it goes when you fight the status quo. No one will like it. "That's not how I would have done it..." etc. There is no right way that will make everyone happy. Because, it's defiance of the status quo. By definition, many won't like it. There will be detractors. The most extreme will use slander, fraud, lies, and even violence to maintain their status quo. If you're too scared to even show up for the fight, you've already lost. I don't want it that way, that's just how it is. You may as well accuse me of making the wind blow.

I do go about my business legally open carrying. In fact, I just got in and my 1911 is still on my belt. But that was up in Georgia, where I spend my money. Smok'n Pig. Random gas station I don't remember. Home Depot. Books A Million, where a guy asked me what kind of holster I had. Best Buy, where a younger fellow had to show me his concealed Glock...

Florida's definition of "Antique Firearm" explicitily defines "Antique Farearms" as "not Firearms." Kinda weird language. But the definitions section of that Statute says it. This cannot be re-defined elsewhere in the same section. So, what is stated in 790.001 must be applied to 790.053 and 790.06.

See: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...r-open-carry&p=2183390&viewfull=1#post2183390


cool
 

JRoque

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2011
Messages
13
Location
Miami, FL
Hello all.

I didn't read ever word on this thread but, did anyone mentioned the elephant in the room: lame support from the NRA? It seems one of these OC bills shows up once in a while just in time for politicians to get support and the NRA to get members. They rope you along until the bill dies, then repeat cycle.

The NRA is enormously powerful, especially over anything that smells Republican. They could have easily lent their strongest of supports and called Miami's Miguel Diaz for some string tugging - they didn't. The last time I heard the NRA got involved we ended up with the current peek-a-boo CC where they won't beat you to a pulp if you accidentally expose your piece. Geez, thanks.

Some rambling to vent a little: it is absurd and counter-intuitive to not allow a licensed CC to carry openly. You see all of the ADT alarm signs on people's front lawn because showing it *prevents* crimes. The same thing goes for security cameras where stores put up huge signs announcing them and even have TV monitors that show you on video. Few crimes are committed when there's a LEO, uniformed and decked with decals announcing his or her presence. How many people are going to rob a bank if the minute they open the door they see a bunch of customers in line carrying guns? I would think most enforcement officers would like to immediately know who has a gun and who doesn't when they walk into a room. I can go on but regardless of all of this, some people like the element of surprise, others would like more preventative actions. The choice should be with the person licensed to carry the weapon and OC would provide that.

JR
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
Hello all.

I didn't read ever word on this thread but, did anyone mentioned the elephant in the room: lame support from the NRA? It seems one of these OC bills shows up once in a while just in time for politicians to get support and the NRA to get members. They rope you along until the bill dies, then repeat cycle.

The NRA is enormously powerful, especially over anything that smells Republican. They could have easily lent their strongest of supports and called Miami's Miguel Diaz for some string tugging - they didn't. The last time I heard the NRA got involved we ended up with the current peek-a-boo CC where they won't beat you to a pulp if you accidentally expose your piece. Geez, thanks.
Blame won't get anything done. There are more directions to point a finger than fingers on both of my hands put together. So, I just use the one in the middle and wave it in the general direction of all of them... And then move on. No sense dwelling on the blame game.

Scott, Gardiner, Castro de Tortilla, NRA... You can blame them all. So? What are YOU going to DO about it?

As for peek-a-boo CC, the deal is actually much worse than you think. There used to be at least some settled case law, now that's all erased. "Brief" can be used to mean almost any time frame desired by the persecution, I mean, prosecution. At least the matter used to be open and shut, now it's a mess to our detriment. LEts not forget the non-existing printing statute that was legislated from the bench. So, brief printing? It's called Floriduh for a reason. This sh!t is absurd...

I find it odd that I have the convenience of being able to spend most of my time in a State that I don't live in. If I have a need to leave the house for X, I can cross the State Line and head up to Valdosta. But, those who lack that luxury seem less motivated than I am...

I got an email from the GOA urging people to push Castro de Tortilla when he was stonewalling the bill, telling the world that gun owners are bunch of psychos that can't be trusted. I wonder if he crosses the street to walk on the other side when he sees a black person, too?

Nothing from the NRA. Seems they aren't interested in a fight unless it's been prescripted as a win, so they can show up and pretend they had something to do with it. I've never witnessed them doing anything different...

The most influence the NRA ever had on gun rights was in writing most of the NFA... F*ck the NRA. In the butt. With a pine cone. Sideways. On fire. Then send the pictures to their mothers.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
...The most influence the NRA ever had on gun rights was in writing most of the NFA... F*ck the NRA. In the butt. With a pine cone. Sideways. On fire. Then send the pictures to their mothers.
Don't hold back, it's not good for you. Let it all out, tell us how you really feel. :rolleyes:
 

JRoque

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2011
Messages
13
Location
Miami, FL
Hi all,

Yeah man, tell us how you really feel :)

I hear ya about being driven to do something about it rather than getting pissed off and whine. Reality is that an army of one won't get me very far. The representation of a large group of like-minded people with a common goal is exactly why we subscribe to the likes of the NRA and vote for the idiot politicians. They, of course, prove once again they're only looking out for their own interests.

JR
 

phil1979

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
91
Location
Atlanta, GA
Black Powder Antique Pistol Open Carry

Ixtow,

When you open carry a BP revolver, please have at least audio recording. I think you may have to notify LEOs that you are recording them when approached, as Florida is a two-party state if I recall correctly.

Best to also have someone videoing you as well to protect your rights.

Please post back here to let us know how it goes - and I salute you for this bold step in the exercise of your rights!

Important! - Almost forgot - check city and county ordinances regarding BP revolvers. They are not covered by state preemption.
 
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BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
...I hear ya about being driven to do something about it rather than getting pissed off and whine. Reality is that an army of one won't get me very far. The representation of a large group of like-minded people with a common goal is exactly why we subscribe to the likes of the NRA and vote for the idiot politicians. They, of course, prove once again they're only looking out for their own interests.
Many things start with a single person. I applaud ixtow for his willingness to challenge the status quo. It's troubling (but not unexpected) to see the powers-that-be seemingly more self-interested than interested in the whole.
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
When you open carry a BP revolver, please have at least audio recording. I think you may have to notify LEOs that you are recording them when approached, as Florida is a two-party state if I recall correctly.

Best to also have someone videoing you as well to protect your rights.

Please post back here to let us know how it goes - and I salute you for this bold step in the exercise of your rights!

Important! - Almost forgot - check city and county ordinances regarding BP revolvers. They are not covered by state preemption.

The "wire tap" law you refer to is another example of bizarre Floriduh Law.

You have to refer to the top of the Statute in the definitions section. If you read the direct statute, you'll be confused. Because... When the Supreme Court handed down the "Reasonable Expectation of Privacy" thing, instead of re-writing the whole statute, they just altered the definition of the terminology.

In Floriduh, there is no need for anyone's consent in a place where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. This is why cops like to say "Would you mind coming over here so we can speak privately?" Or something similar.

It's a trap! The instant you go along with that, they arrest you on that wire tap charge, because you agreed to privacy and continued to record.

As I have pointed out, due to language at the top of the definitions section of 790.001, and 790.053, it is, in fact, not legal to OC an Antique Firearm in Floriduh. The definitions section has a qualifier that essentially says "These definitions can mean whatever we want them to mean." It's not idiocy. It's not merely sloppy. It's deliberate. It's corruption. The law is written with specific intent that it be abused. Otherwise, why not let definitions actually be definitions? Why the song and dance?

You might be able to "get away with it" in a pro-human-rights area, where every member of the judicial branch in that jurisdiction, cop to gavel, is not willfully mis-interpreting the meaning of the law. But, I dare you to find such a place in Floriduh... Double-dog dare you. Even if you can find it, the move to doing it in Orlando, Tallahassee, or Miami would definitely be leaving that safe haven. Thus, pointless preparation stage for a thing that cannot be done.

If ", except where the context otherwise requires" were struck from the top of 790.001, or, "ny" were struck from 790.053 (leaving behind "a"): It'd be do-able.

The most appropriate action would be to strike ", except where the context otherwise requires" because it's absurd. Definitions are supposed to be definitions. It's called a definition for a reason... This would unplug the possibility of deliberate misinterpretation. Which is why definitions exist; to prevent such BS bending of the law by activist agenda-driven judges/prosecutors/cops. So, yeah...

As it stands, it can mean anything they want it to mean. And, you know what that means... The most restrictive, abusive interpretation possible.

Look at what they've done with "brief" and tell me I'm wrong about this degree of scrutiny.

Compared to the time-scale of the universe, my entire lifetime is remarkably brief. Probably shorter than most if I keep this up much longer... ;-)

I escaped Dawsey's thugs once... How much should I depend on that?
 
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phil1979

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
91
Location
Atlanta, GA
I'm going to try and get some other opinions on the "except where the context otherwise requires" portion of the law.

I personally believe that this refers to a situation where an antique black powder revolver could be considered to be a "firearm" when used in a robbery, for example, even though it is excluded from the definition of "firearm".

I don't believe this is a door big enough to drive a Mac truck through, but it is an interesting topic.
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
I'm going to try and get some other opinions on the "except where the context otherwise requires" portion of the law.

I personally believe that this refers to a situation where an antique black powder revolver could be considered to be a "firearm" when used in a robbery, for example, even though it is excluded from the definition of "firearm".

I don't believe this is a door big enough to drive a Mac truck through, but it is an interesting topic.

Take a look at the Printing Judgment and see how small a hole into which they can drive a truck... There are too many examples of things much more bizarre to imagine that it wouldn't be done here. Don't let wishful thinking send you to prison.
 

redmanrt

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Jan 11, 2008
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, ,
Hb163

HB163 (open carry in Florida) has just died in the Senate Criminal Justice committee chaired by Senator de la Portilla (disctrict 40, Miami-Dade) who did not even allow the bill to be presented for discussion. It had passed in the House of Representatives by a vote of 80-38 on 3 Feb. 2016. De la Portilla should be opposed in the coming August primary.
 

BB62

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Messages
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Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
HB163 (open carry in Florida) has just died in the Senate Criminal Justice committee chaired by Senator de la Portilla (disctrict 40, Miami-Dade) who did not even allow the bill to be presented for discussion. It had passed in the House of Representatives by a vote of 80-38 on 3 Feb. 2016. De la Portilla should be opposed in the coming August primary.
That's a shame, but in the future when you have such news, you may want to make the title more descriptive, and post the thread in the Florida forum: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?93-Florida


--Modertor merged to existing thread--
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ixtow

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Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
HB163 (open carry in Florida) has just died in the Senate Criminal Justice committee chaired by Senator de la Portilla (disctrict 40, Miami-Dade) who did not even allow the bill to be presented for discussion. It had passed in the House of Representatives by a vote of 80-38 on 3 Feb. 2016. De la Portilla should be opposed in the coming August primary.
Castro de Torilla wants to behave like a democrat, he may as well be replaced by one.

The RINOs need to learn that Democrat Lite, and Democrat, are no choice at all. May as well have the devil we know, than the poseur that murders us in our sleep.

On the Liberal side, who wants the half-assed version?

RINOs are desirable to no one. They survive on lies and deception, only. There isn't even half-truth in them.

There are 58 Democrats in the Floriduh Senate. There is not a Republican majority in the Floriduh Senate.

If they don't act like the name they're hiding behind, replace them with anything. It's not a loss to replace them with a Democrat, because they are Democrats.

The 2nd Amendment Right is the root Right from which all else grows. It is not "being a single-issue voter" to vote on the one thing that protects all others. Don't let the deceivers play that trick on you.
 
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