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Constitutional carry phrase

papa bear

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Hi, this is a subject that has bothered me for a long time. Why do people that want To hide thier guns insist on calling it thatt

In NC and VA we have had the constitutional Right to carry for years.

I have to doubt their sincerity. Why dont they call it what it is? Permitless Concealment
 

color of law

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Because Permitless Concealment is not a good catch phrase.

Constitutional Carry sounds good even though it is not true. You know, like the Patriot Act.
 

JamesCanby

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Hi, this is a subject that has bothered me for a long time. Why do people that want To hide thier guns insist on calling it thatt

In NC and VA we have had the constitutional Right to carry for years.

I have to doubt their sincerity. Why dont they call it what it is? Permitless Concealment

Virginia does not require any kind of permit for people to openly carry a firearm. One does not even have to be a resident of Virginia to openly carry, one must simply be standing inside the legal borders of the Commonwealth. Even so, some Virginia jurisdictions have convinced state legislators to write into the code that for certain firearms and magazine capacities one must have a Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP) to carry, even openly -- it shows that you have been through a background check in the last few years.

In order to legally carry concealed, one must have a Concealed Handgun Permit or some currently valid form of a similar permit from another state. Virginia recognizes "Concealed Carry Permits" (no matter what they are called) from all other states.

Virginia does not have "Permitless Concealment."
 
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papa bear

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Interesting post James, but has nothing to do with the subject. Please give me your opinion on the subject
 

papa bear

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James, after reading your post oever again. I think you have missed the point. We have been constitutionally carrying our firearms for years in NC and VA. We do have to have our governments permission to hide it

There is the confusion, why do the gun hiders insist on calling it "constitutional carry" in stead of permitless carry?
 

MamaLiberty

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James, after reading your post oever again. I think you have missed the point. We have been constitutionally carrying our firearms for years in NC and VA. We do have to have our governments permission to hide it

There is the confusion, why do the gun hiders insist on calling it "constitutional carry" in stead of permitless carry?

Why is it anyone's business how you carry? By what legitimate authority does anyone presume to issue a "permit?" Why does it have to be called anything? :)
 

JamesCanby

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James, after reading your post oever again. I think you have missed the point. We have been constitutionally carrying our firearms for years in NC and VA. We do have to have our governments permission to hide it

There is the confusion, why do the gun hiders insist on calling it "constitutional carry" in stead of permitless carry?

I believe the confusion is yours. Everyone understands the terms "Concealed Carry" and "Constitutional Carry." "Constitutional Carry," however, refers to the ability of a person to carry either openly or concealed without having to obtain a license or permit from their state government.

As shown on handgunlaw.us,
"Note: Alaska, Arizona, Kansas, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, Vermont and West Virginia have “Permitless Carry.” Anyone who can legally possess a firearm may carry it concealed in those states without a Permit/License.​

You will note that neither NC or VA are on that list.

In my opinion the phrase "Constitutional Carry" clearly indicates that there is a Constitutional basis for anyone who can legally possess a firearm can and may do so without obtaining any license, permit or other endorsement for their right to carry openly or concealed. Also in my opinion, we do not need to further confuse the situation by injecting yet another descriptor into the jargon.
 

Phoenix David

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It's just a phrase, it doesn't have to be accurate or true, "Best BBQ west of the Mississippi" It doesn't mean they are insincere, it's just a catchy phrase. Just like magazine, clip or bullet holder. People generally know what it means.
 

Va_Nemo

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Because Permitless Concealment is not a good catch phrase.

Constitutional Carry sounds good even though it is not true. You know, like the Patriot Act.


Best answer to the original question.

Gets the attention of those who are supporters of the Constitution but do not understand the issue entirely.

Nemo
 

countryclubjoe

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nj
A God given natural right need no government moniker..

Regarding another moniker from the government ' the patriot act".. calls to mind the venerable quote from Mr. James Madison

" the means of defence against foreign danger,have been always the instruments of tyranny at home"..

I received my permission from the creator to defend myself and my family.. I call said permission ' Creator Carry"..

My .02
Regards
CCJ
 

papa bear

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Kinda like "gun control", "assault weapon", "gun violence", Obama, jabberwocki.

Words that dont mean anything. Very SJW of Them

Like i said i already have constitutional carry in my state.

Still dont understand the reason to use an inaccurate term. When what they want is permitless carry
 
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utbagpiper

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Like i said i already have constitutional carry in my state.

No you don't. True, constitutional carry would allow anyone walking the streets unsupervised to own and carry any personal firearm they wanted to carry, in whatever peaceable manner they wanted to carry it. That includes guns with threaded barrels, with normal sized or even over-sized ammunition magazines. It would include short barreled shotguns and fully automatic machineguns. It would not include any honor system off limits locations like schools, post offices, or routine federal office buildings.

Virginia has a nice open carry laws....with the exception of a few localities that impose criminal penalties for carrying a gun with a threaded barrel or normal sized magazine. Virginia does not allow you to carry a gun discretely, or protected from the elements, without obtaining a permit.

If you are going to rail against the use of an "inaccurate term" you should really avoid using that term inaccurately yourself.

Still dont understand the reason to use an inaccurate term. When what they want is permitless carry

For the same reason you have used it inaccurately in this thread: Because it carries a certain power.

Permitless concealed carry sounds negative on a couple of different levels. Permit-free concealed carry sounds about the same.

Constitutional carry has a nice, positive ring to it. And so, it is useful for political purposes. I don't want my legislature to fail to do something (like check backgrounds or assure there is proper training). I just want the legislature to abide the constitution. Who can oppose that without sounding like a tree hugging, rock licking, anti-American pinko commie hippy liberal freak?

It is really very simply. Nobody in this nation yet has true constitutional carry. We all want it. We use the term because it is good marketing and that matters in politics.
 

WalkingWolf

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Don't blame me, but...

The courts have ruled over, and over again. The most originalist, conservative, constitutional judge ruled in Heller that concealed carry is not covered in the constitution, and that it is subject to restrictions/permits.

Sorry but permitless concealed carry at this point is NOT constitutional carry, and most likely after Scalia's words never will be. We should be working to remove the restriction in place on constitutional open carry, remove permits for open carry in some states.

If/once open carry is confirmed as a right that can not be licensed conceal carry permits will fall like rain in a thunderstorm. The statists are so afraid of OC, they will drop all permitting for CC to encourage it over OC.
 

utbagpiper

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The courts have ruled over, and over again.

Really? Citations please to these many multitude of rulings.

I believe the SCOTUS is all but silent on RKBA in the ante-bellum period. In modern times we have Miller, Heller, and McDonald. In other words, jurisprudence on RKBA is still in its infancy. Lower court rulings on the matter prior to McDonald pretty much all amounted to "the SCOTUS hasn't said otherwise so we are going to rule narrowly and generally hostile to RKBA every chance we get."

But I welcome citations to the contrary.

The most originalist, conservative, constitutional judge ruled in Heller that concealed carry is not covered in the constitution, and that it is subject to restrictions/permits.

And he also utterly failed to say anything different regarding OC. He also said that all manner of well established but wholly offensive restrictions on locations where guns could be restricted were not affected by the Heller decision. Heller addressed usable guns in one's own home and ruled that there is, in fact, an individual right to possess a usable gun in one's home. Nothing else. Heller said nothing good (or bad) about any right to posses a gun outside the home. Anything and everything else is little more than commentary that we fully expect and hope to have overturned or enlarged in subsequent rulings. Let us remember, as analogy, Lawrence and Windser said nothing about homosexuals having a right to marriage licenses/benefits in any particular State.

Sorry but permitless concealed carry at this point is NOT constitutional carry, and most likely after Scalia's words never will be. We should be working to remove the restriction in place on constitutional open carry, remove permits for open carry in some states.

I understand supporting OC.

I do not understand hostility to discrete carry. I do not read where the 2nd amendment imposes a dress code.

It is one thing to tell us, in honest, full context what the current state of jurisprudence is. It is quite another bow down and lick the boots of black robed lawyers as if any decision was or should be the final decision on what the constitution permits, prohibits or mandates. Thank heaven civil rights activists did not book lick Plessy v. Ferguson the way some here seem anxious to kiss the hind end of the court to justify their own statist desire to force others to carry in their chosen manner.

If/once open carry is confirmed as a right that can not be licensed conceal carry permits will fall like rain in a thunderstorm. The statists are so afraid of OC, they will drop all permitting for CC to encourage it over OC.

Good theory. I will accept citations of what progress has been made there in the last 15 years.

I will provide 13 States, from Alaska in 2003 to Missouri in January of this year (2017) who have moved to adopt permit-free concealed carry as the next large step in recognizing the RIGHT to keep and bear arms without prior restraint.

I'm not opposed to any legal, peaceful path that increases our RKBA. I just am not going to let irrational beliefs or blind adherence to any particular creed cloud my judgment. I haven't seen much movement on increased statutory respect for OC the last few years, nor I have seen where increasing such regard for OC has shown a pattern of then leading to increased statutory respect for CC.

I'm open to examples of correction. But I know that Walking Wolf hides from such engagement with anyone who actually provides enough data to require him to consider his views based on data, rather than on dogma. It seems some cops can retire and still not be able to accept they don't get to control every situation.
 

solus

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I'm open to examples of correction. But I know that Walking Wolf hides from such engagement with anyone who actually provides enough data to require him to consider his views based on data, rather than on dogma. It seems some cops can retire and still not be able to accept they don't get to control every situation.

again, nicely put insult towards someone who challenged you

and you speak of civility mate...sigh
 

hammer6

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Oct 11, 2008
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Location
Florida
James, after reading your post oever again. I think you have missed the point. We have been constitutionally carrying our firearms for years in NC and VA. We do have to have our governments permission to hide it

There is the confusion, why do the gun hiders insist on calling it "constitutional carry" in stead of permitless carry?


in the phrase "constitutional carry", the word 'carry' is a verb, and the word 'constitutional' is the adverb.

'carry' is what people are doing, and how they are doing it is where the adverb comes in. 'constitutional carry' means to carry is determined by the constitution.

constitutional carry is a type of carry.

permitless carry means to carry without a permit. constitutional carry means to carry because of the constitution. the constitution is your "how" or "why" for carrying.

that's why people say 'constitutional carry'.
 
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papa bear

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mayberry, nc
Actually it does. I can carry ing my state because of the constitution. Which gives me un restricted carry of a firearm

Hiding that firearm like a bad guy, is to be permitted after i have went through a check to see if i was a bad guy that hides my gun.

Remember not everybody that hides their gun is a bad guy. But every bad guy hides his gun

I can understand the states without the constitutional right to carry a firearm. Like TX, TN, SC, FL want to be liberated.
Using a false moniker, like MOMS, Brady bunch, BATF, or anytown. Is just wrong
 
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