Anti at work

[HankT]

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Harper1227 wrote:

This guy at work is driving me nuts....
He's a nice guy, but I just don't know how to argue with these people. I need to create a short list of gun facts and statistics to just be like 'ok, here you go' and walk away.

H1277, why not invite him to join OCDO?

Let him know at this thread and that he can participate in it. He can make his points and hear the points of others. You know, a discussion.

Now, don't take it personally, but we don't even know if you have presented his opinions and comments accurately. You're definitely a biased participant in your arguments with him.

Be fair. Give him a chance to state and defend his opinions right here.

Or at least give him the opportunity to know that you are talking about him behind his back. I'm sure you're not ashamed of that. Are you?

 

[richarcm]

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I agree with IGNORE HIM. Even worse than antis are gun owners who are anti. They are never wrong and can not be argued with.

 

[gcrtkd]

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this might help...

I posted it elsewhere with the following note...

Friends-

With all of the legal cases going on touching upon the 2A these days (as well as the oft-misunderstood history of the amendment, it's meaning, and related court decisions), I thought it would help to pull everything together into an easy to follow chronological flowchart diagram with all of the major statutory law and case law decisions. Presumably a similar flowchart could be created for each of the amendments held to be incorporated against the states. I'll try to upload what I've got here as both a .pdf and a .doc so others can edit and repost. I don't have the focus right now to put in the major takeaway from Cruikshank, so maybe someone else can if they like. I also left out things like Jim Crow laws and common misconceptions such as the definition of militia & ‘well regulated’. Please let me know if I've missed any major laws or cases and make additions as you see fit.

One of the things that I predict that this will be useful for is if I ever try to explain to someone again how we ended up in this mess and why we are clawing our way out of a real deep hole with the 2A.

Oh... looking at this, I see that I forgot to put the 94 - 04 AWB. I'll have to think if that should go in there...

-gcrtkd

 

[gcrtkd]

imported post

this might help...

I posted it elsewhere with the following note...

Friends-

With all of the legal cases going on touching upon the 2A these days (as well as the oft-misunderstood history of the amendment, it's meaning, and related court decisions), I thought it would help to pull everything together into an easy to follow chronological flowchart diagram with all of the major statutory law and case law decisions. Presumably a similar flowchart could be created for each of the amendments held to be incorporated against the states. I'll try to upload what I've got here as both a .pdf and a .doc so others can edit and repost. I don't have the focus right now to put in the major takeaway from Cruikshank, so maybe someone else can if they like. I also left out things like Jim Crow laws and common misconceptions such as the definition of militia & ‘well regulated’. Please let me know if I've missed any major laws or cases and make additions as you see fit.

One of the things that I predict that this will be useful for is if I ever try to explain to someone again how we ended up in this mess and why we are clawing our way out of a real deep hole with the 2A.

Oh... looking at this, I see that I forgot to put the 94 - 04 AWB. I'll have to think if that should go in there...

-gcrtkd

 

[Harper1227]

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HankT wrote:

Harper1227 wrote:

This guy at work is driving me nuts....
He's a nice guy, but I just don't know how to argue with these people. I need to create a short list of gun facts and statistics to just be like 'ok, here you go' and walk away.

H1277, why not invite him to join OCDO?

Let him know at this thread and that he can participate in it. He can make his points and hear the points of others. You know, a discussion.

Now, don't take it personally, but we don't even know if you have presented his opinions and comments accurately. You're definitely a biased participant in your arguments with him.

Be fair. Give him a chance to state and defend his opinions right here.

Or at least give him the opportunity to know that you are talking about him behind his back. I'm sure you're not ashamed of that. Are you?

wow! my first HankT responses. i feel like I have made prime time now!!

well, not only did i invite him to OCDO I invited him to attend a dinner so that he could meet normal gun owners/carriers and he said that meeting the minority would not change his mind.

Dont take THIS personally. But, I have participated in this forum for awhile, met a lot of the other NoVA folks out there. AND those who know me can tell you- I have never been grandious or opinionated with my beliefs or stories so, I am not concerned with what you know to be accurate. The only way you could know what I say is pure truth is if you were there, I had a stenographer keep a record, or if I voice recorded the conversation. Since I cannot record at work - that ain't gonna happen -I guess you will just have to do like the rest of the nicefolks out here and take it for what it is, a story. You can believe it or not -won't spoil my oatmeal.

Lastly, I have done a few things in my life that 'normal' people might be ashamed of. Telling a story about my day at work doesn't even fall in the spectrum of things I could be ashamed of. Alas, telling some guy I work with that I basically called him an ignorant jerk doesn't seem like smart business practice. AND since I did not mention him by name, characteristics, or profession - I doubt he needs to defend himself against people he thinks are uneducated rednecks.

Take it as what it is, a retelling of my day.

But thanks bringing more attention my tread now i feel super special :celebrate

 

[Grapeshot]

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Harper1227, you are uniquely qualified and accepted in a way manner that HankT has not yet attained. You are a mommy and we most often believe and trust what our mommies say - that is a good thing I believe. Further, you are a mother who has earned her stripes and our respect.

HankT may be a motha but a mommy he ain't........yet. Maybe he is not trying hard enough. Someone should suggest that he lay still with his feet elevated for 10-15 minutes.

My aplogies to the more sensitive amongst us, I will go to my room now.

Yata hey

 

[HankT]

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Harper1227 wrote:

HankT wrote:

Harper1227 wrote:

This guy at work is driving me nuts....
He's a nice guy, but I just don't know how to argue with these people. I need to create a short list of gun facts and statistics to just be like 'ok, here you go' and walk away.

H1277, why not invite him to join OCDO?

Let him know at this thread and that he can participate in it. He can make his points and hear the points of others. You know, a discussion.

Now, don't take it personally, but we don't even know if you have presented his opinions and comments accurately. You're definitely a biased participant in your arguments with him.

Be fair. Give him a chance to state and defend his opinions right here.

Or at least give him the opportunity to know that you are talking about him behind his back. I'm sure you're not ashamed of that. Are you?

wow! my first HankT responses. i feel like I have made prime time now!!

well, not only did i invite him to OCDO I invited him to attend a dinner so that he could meet normal gun owners/carriers and he said that meeting the minority would not change his mind.

Dont take THIS personally. But, I have participated in this forum for awhile, met a lot of the other NoVA folks out there. AND those who know me can tell you- I have never been grandious or opinionated with my beliefs or stories so, I am not concerned with what you know to be accurate. The only way you could know what I say is pure truth is if you were there, I had a stenographer keep a record, or if I voice recorded the conversation. Since I cannot record at work - that ain't gonna happen -I guess you will just have to do like the rest of the nicefolks out here and take it for what it is, a story. You can believe it or not -won't spoil my oatmeal.

Lastly, I have done a few things in my life that 'normal' people might be ashamed of. Telling a story about my day at work doesn't even fall in the spectrum of things I could be ashamed of. Alas, telling some guy I work with that I basically called him an ignorant jerk doesn't seem like smart business practice. AND since I did not mention him by name, characteristics, or profession - I doubt he needs to defend himself against people he thinks are uneducated rednecks.

Take it as what it is, a retelling of my day.

But thanks bringing more attention my tread now i feel super special :celebrate

Do you think he'll be joining OCDO?

It would be interesting to read his views. And it might be interesting for him to read ours.

 

[Harper1227]

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Doubt it. On another occassion, just after those OC'ers brought the rifles to the health care rally, we had a similar conversation. He and another woman in that conversation just didn't understand what would make people do something that "stupid". I tried to explain expression of rights, etc. and that led to self defense... She said that crimes don't really 'happen around here' and that 'it' (self defense) can't happen 'that often' . I told them they both need to read the news more often and check out self defense blogs. He said something to the extent that you can swing it which ever way you want depending on what you read.

It all goes back to us just being a bunch of scared rednecks. But, like I said, he's a very intelligent guy soit would be interesting to see him debate the whole forum. But being the minorityhe might not feel too comfortable and probably just end up being labled a troll.

 

[Harper1227]

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Grapeshot wrote:

Harper1227, you are uniquely qualified and accepted in a way manner that HankT has not yet attained. You are a mommy and we most often believe and trust what our mommies say - that is a good thing I believe. Further, you are a mother who has earned her stripes and our respect.

HankT may be a motha but a mommy he ain't........yet. Maybe he is not trying hard enough. Someone should suggest that he lay still with his feet elevated for 10-15 minutes.

My aplogies to the more sensitive amongst us, I will go to my room now.

Yata hey

Thank you grapeshot, that meansa lot coming from you

 

[HankT]

imported post

Harper1227 wrote:

Doubt it. On another occassion, just after those OC'ers brought the rifles to the health care rally, we had a similar conversation. He and another woman in that conversation just didn't understand what would make people do something that "stupid". I tried to explain expression of rights, etc. and that led to self defense... She said that crimes don't really 'happen around here' and that 'it' (self defense) can't happen 'that often' . I told them they both need to read the news more often and check out self defense blogs. He said something to the extent that you can swing it which ever way you want depending on what you read.

It all goes back to us just being a bunch of scared rednecks. But, like I said, he's a very intelligent guy soit would be interesting to see him debate the whole forum. But being the minorityhe might not feel too comfortable and probably just end up being labled a troll.

Well, at least you offered him the opportunity to enter a forum of exchanging ideas. That's always a good thing--to try to expand and extend the discussion.

I have found over the years that there are certain types of people that assiduouslyavoid an exchange of ideas; bigots, ideological extremists, simplists,racists, elitists, fearful people, incompetents...dullards....

Perhaps that anti at your work is one of those.

 

[fully_armed_biker]

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Harper1227 wrote:

<snip>He said something to the extent that you can swing it which ever way you want depending on what you read.

It all goes back to us just being a bunch of scared rednecks. But, like I said, he's a very intelligent guy soit would be interesting to see him debate the whole forum. But being the minorityhe might not feel too comfortable and probably just end up being labled a troll.

Just remember...that goes both ways. He can swing it which ever wayhe wants too! He obviously just refuses to accept the FACTS and by relying on his prejudices, he dismisses all law abiding gun owners with the RIGHT to self protection as a bunch of "rednecks" thereby nullifying (in his mind at least) any of those FACTS! He's a hypocryte, plain and simple!

 

[SouthernBoy]

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Harper1227 wrote:

Doubt it. On another occassion, just after those OC'ers brought the rifles to the health care rally, we had a similar conversation. He and another woman in that conversation just didn't understand what would make people do something that "stupid". I tried to explain expression of rights, etc. and that led to self defense... She said that crimes don't really 'happen around here' and that 'it' (self defense) can't happen 'that often' . I told them they both need to read the news more often and check out self defense blogs. He said something to the extent that you can swing it which ever way you want depending on what you read.

It all goes back to us just being a bunch of scared rednecks. But, like I said, he's a very intelligent guy soit would be interesting to see him debate the whole forum. But being the minorityhe might not feel too comfortable and probably just end up being labled a troll.

People do at times ask why do we feel like we need to carry a gun.. that having to resort to using it for self defense is highly unlikely. Well think of this. Would they be willing to sacrifice themselves on this alter should someone stick a knife or a gun in their side and demand their wallet and keys them stick or shoot them anyway? After all, it's only happens occasionally so why not be the sacrificial lamb rather than carry a firearm for protection?


And can I ask a favor of our members? Please refrain from using the term "redneck". To us southerners, it's synonymous to the term "nigger" when used in a negative context, and both of these terms are rather derogatory. It's just that because blacks are seen as victims, the infamous "N" word is a no-no, but because southern whites are seen as knuckle dragging dimwits, "redneck" is acceptable. I avoid both when possible.

Just a thought.

 

[Harper1227]

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SouthernBoy wrote:

Harper1227 wrote:

Doubt it. On another occassion, just after those OC'ers brought the rifles to the health care rally, we had a similar conversation. He and another woman in that conversation just didn't understand what would make people do something that "stupid". I tried to explain expression of rights, etc. and that led to self defense... She said that crimes don't really 'happen around here' and that 'it' (self defense) can't happen 'that often' . I told them they both need to read the news more often and check out self defense blogs. He said something to the extent that you can swing it which ever way you want depending on what you read.

It all goes back to us just being a bunch of scared rednecks. But, like I said, he's a very intelligent guy soit would be interesting to see him debate the whole forum. But being the minorityhe might not feel too comfortable and probably just end up being labled a troll.

People do at times ask why do we feel like we need to carry a gun.. that having to resort to using it for self defense is highly unlikely. Well think of this. Would they be willing to sacrifice themselves on this alter should someone stick a knife or a gun in their side and demand their wallet and keys them stick or shoot them anyway? After all, it's only happens occasionally so why not be the sacrificial lamb rather than carry a firearm for protection?


And can I ask a favor of our members? Please refrain from using the term "redneck". To us southerners, it's synonymous to the term "nigger" when used in a negative context, and both of these terms are rather derogatory. It's just that because blacks are seen as victims, the infamous "N" word is a no-no, but because southern whites are seen as knuckle dragging dimwits, "redneck" is acceptable. I avoid both when possible.

Just a thought.

you're right SB. I am of course quoting my co-worker when I say 'redneck' but I am guilty of occassionally refering to my hubby as a 'gun-toting redneck' - in a loving manner of course. I will try to refrain while on the forum though.


I always say to each his own but I just can't imagine someone hurting my babies or what would happen to them if something happened to hubby or I. That is the strongest reason for me to carry. That's what I tell anyone who asks. I have a responsibility to protect my children and to make sure that I come home to them.

 

[HankT]

imported post

Harper1227 wrote:

SouthernBoy wrote:

And can I ask a favor of our members? Please refrain from using the term "redneck". To us southerners, it's synonymous to the term "nigger" when used in a negative context, and both of these terms are rather derogatory. It's just that because blacks are seen as victims, the infamous "N" word is a no-no, but because southern whites are seen as knuckle dragging dimwits, "redneck" is acceptable. I avoid both when possible.

Just a thought.

you're right SB. I am of course quoting my co-worker when I say 'redneck' but I am guilty of occassionally refering to my hubby as a 'gun-toting redneck' - in a loving manner of course. I will try to refrain while on the forum though.


I always say to each his own but I just can't imagine someone hurting my babies or what would happen to them if something happened to hubby or I. That is the strongest reason for me to carry....

With respect to the "R" word, I think it is in the common lexicon of our society. And it was so, even before Jeff Foxworthy.

I wouldn'tlike to, and I don't think I have, use the "R" word. Especially, asa pejorative. That is disrespectful and makes no sense.

But, the "R" word is in pretty mainstream usage and I cannot see that particular word being put on some kind ofDo Not Utterlist.

So, I won't use the "R"word, as I am careful about miscommunicating on stuff like that. But I certainly won't chastise anyone for using it in a friendly or humorous way that is not intended to harm a designee. I've heard it too many times between husband/wife, father/son/ friend/friend, etc.

The "R" word has multiple senses and definitions in our society, some of them in clearly reasonably good/funny/acceptable taste.

That's why it's not a good idea to propose censorship of the word. Just one of those things...

 

[wylde007]

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Most TRUE southerners understand how the term "redneck" was derived and, much like the flags of our country, cannot be denigrated by someone else's ignorance or attempts to hijack it for use as a derogatory insult.

 

[SouthernBoy]

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Harper1227 wrote:

SouthernBoy wrote:

Harper1227 wrote:

Doubt it. On another occassion, just after those OC'ers brought the rifles to the health care rally, we had a similar conversation. He and another woman in that conversation just didn't understand what would make people do something that "stupid". I tried to explain expression of rights, etc. and that led to self defense... She said that crimes don't really 'happen around here' and that 'it' (self defense) can't happen 'that often' . I told them they both need to read the news more often and check out self defense blogs. He said something to the extent that you can swing it which ever way you want depending on what you read.

It all goes back to us just being a bunch of scared rednecks. But, like I said, he's a very intelligent guy soit would be interesting to see him debate the whole forum. But being the minorityhe might not feel too comfortable and probably just end up being labled a troll.

People do at times ask why do we feel like we need to carry a gun.. that having to resort to using it for self defense is highly unlikely. Well think of this. Would they be willing to sacrifice themselves on this alter should someone stick a knife or a gun in their side and demand their wallet and keys them stick or shoot them anyway? After all, it's only happens occasionally so why not be the sacrificial lamb rather than carry a firearm for protection?


And can I ask a favor of our members? Please refrain from using the term "redneck". To us southerners, it's synonymous to the term "nigger" when used in a negative context, and both of these terms are rather derogatory. It's just that because blacks are seen as victims, the infamous "N" word is a no-no, but because southern whites are seen as knuckle dragging dimwits, "redneck" is acceptable. I avoid both when possible.

Just a thought.

you're right SB. I am of course quoting my co-worker when I say 'redneck' but I am guilty of occassionally refering to my hubby as a 'gun-toting redneck' - in a loving manner of course. I will try to refrain while on the forum though.


I always say to each his own but I just can't imagine someone hurting my babies or what would happen to them if something happened to hubby or I. That is the strongest reason for me to carry. That's what I tell anyone who asks. I have a responsibility to protect my children and to make sure that I come home to them.

Thank you, Harper1227. I do appreciate your consideration. I also believe your reasons for carrying a defensive arm which you've stated in your second paragraph is all that is needed and I agree completely.

You are a credit to the cause.

 

[SouthernBoy]

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wylde007 wrote:

Most TRUE southerners understand how the term "redneck" was derived and, much like the flags of our country, cannot be denigrated by someone else's ignorance or attempts to hijack it for use as a derogatory insult.

Sir, I am also a TRUE Southerner and was merely suggesting care in its use. Its roots are not all that different than those for the other term, although the 'N' word stems from pronunciation variances. While both have foundations in relative innocence, they have come to represent denigration and vulgarity when used in more contemporary discourse.

I remember one time using the word "nigger" when I was a little kid. I didn't know it was bad.. I had heard it used by someone else older and I didn't know any better. Well my mom heard me use it and there was hell to pay. I had my mouth washed out with soap, got a good spanking, and was sent to bed without any dinner. To say I learned a permanent lesson is to put it mildly. That sort of language was unacceptable in my home and neither of my parents were about to stand for it. And the funny thing was, I had a few black friends - I just was too young and ignorant to connect the dots and see how this was a bad thing to do.

However, I do agree with your statement. The part about all of this which I have a problem with is why it seems to be acceptable for one term to be used, while the other is to be shunned at all costs. I see that as disinguenuous and a bit racist. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[Grapeshot]

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SouthernBoy wrote:

wylde007 wrote:

Most TRUE southerners understand how the term "redneck" was derived and, much like the flags of our country, cannot be denigrated by someone else's ignorance or attempts to hijack it for use as a derogatory insult.

Sir, I am also a TRUE Southerner and was merely suggesting care in its use. Its roots are not all that different than those for the other term, although the 'N' word stems from pronunciation variances. While both have foundations in relative innocence, they have come to represent denigration and vulgarity when used in more contemporary discourse.

However, I do agree with your statement. The part about all of this which I have a problem with is why it seems to be acceptable for one term to be used, while the other is to be shunned at all costs. I see that as disinguenuous and a bit racist. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

If you question the intent/meaning of my verbiage, listen carefully to the tone of my voice and observe the expression upon my face. These will delineate more precisely my expressed opinions.

Especially useful here on OCDO where a few occasionally miss the nuances of the message.

Yata hey

 

[SouthernBoy]

imported post

Grapeshot wrote:

SouthernBoy wrote:

wylde007 wrote:

Most TRUE southerners understand how the term "redneck" was derived and, much like the flags of our country, cannot be denigrated by someone else's ignorance or attempts to hijack it for use as a derogatory insult.

Sir, I am also a TRUE Southerner and was merely suggesting care in its use. Its roots are not all that different than those for the other term, although the 'N' word stems from pronunciation variances. While both have foundations in relative innocence, they have come to represent denigration and vulgarity when used in more contemporary discourse.

However, I do agree with your statement. The part about all of this which I have a problem with is why it seems to be acceptable for one term to be used, while the other is to be shunned at all costs. I see that as disinguenuous and a bit racist. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

If you question the intent/meaning of my verbiage, listen carefully to the tone of my voice and observe the expression upon my face. These will delineate more precisely my expressed opinions.

Especially useful here on OCDO where a few occasionally miss the nuances of the message.

Yata hey

True however, one cannot see the writer, so his text is all we have to go on. I am frequently reluctant to bring up this topic because I do not wish to alienate people with whom I am attempting to make friends.. especially on this forum since we all have a concerted effort to advance arming ourselves in our outings. I am always afraid someone will take my stance in the wrong way or maybe be offended by raw language. But then again, I suspect I am rather mild in my presentation when compared to some of the postings I have read.

While one side of me says, "Don't give a damn what anyone thinks... say what you wish", the other side says, "Remember, how you may be judged by those who read your words'.

So I should state right now that I mean no one any malice or verbal harm. And I should also stay on topic since I seem to have railroaded the thread. Sorry people.

 

[wylde007]

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Let me see if I can help clarify this a little bit. I am a Southerner. I am a Redneck. I carry a firearm for protection against criminal elements, be they petty, capital or governmental. I display the flags of Southern honour.

No person or group of people can take something that is honorable and good and desecrate its heritage unless we let them.

They are all intertwined in some way or another. The difference of "nigger" is that it started out as a derogatory term.

All of the things I listed started out with noble intentions and have been either railroaded or hijacked by certain groups to punctuate their despicable liberal agendas.

God bless.