America's one choice in 2016.................

[Primus]

Not only are you an apologist for FORCE, you are an active initiator of it.

Fine! I take my vote back! [emoji12]

Svg I vote for you to be prezzy and davidmcbeth as your VP. Grapeshot could be Attorney General because he be prosecuting mad dudes around here. MSG would be Sec Def.

I love you guys.

 

[beebobby]

Bull Streisand.

Here is Project Gutenberg's collection of Plato http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29441/29441-h/29441-h.htm

for Bobbie to read, he clearly has never read any of Plato to not recognize the incongruity of attributing such to Plato!

Here is a gift, my collection of Greek language and translations all searchable.

http://www.ellopos.net/search/plato-search.asp

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/p/plato101112.html
http://trueworldhistory.info/docs/quotes.html
http://www.ancientgreece.com/s/Quotes/
http://thinkexist.com/quotation/one_of_the_penalties_for_refusing_to_participate/11763.html
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...using-to-participate-in-politics-is-that-quot
http://www.smh.com.au/executive-sty...ars/governed-by-inferiors-20121128-29ne5.html
http://www.umich.edu/~umisl/quotes.htm
http://www.columbiamissourian.com/a...ime-to-prod-legislature-to-rein-in-lobbyists/
http://www.awaken.com/2013/01/plato/

 

[WalkingWolf]

I voted for Reagan 2 times and it worked out very well, despite Bush41 and the RINOs working to sell him out on the edges. Voted for moron McCain but really fir Palin. Voted for nice guy w/o a clue and no burning in his belly Romneycare founder. Will vote for Ted Cruz or Scott Walker and eill vote against Hildabeast.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would vote for Bugs Bunny to keep Billary from office. Once she is elected the SCOTUS will make a dramatic turn, and eventually our gun rights will be gone forever. While not voting and letting the more evil get elected over the less evil, it will have devastating results. The answer is more people voting, not less.

 

[J_dazzle23]

I would vote for Bugs Bunny to keep Billary from office. Once she is elected the SCOTUS will make a dramatic turn, and eventually our gun rights will be gone forever. While not voting and letting the more evil get elected over the less evil, it will have devastating results. The answer is more people voting, not less.

I very much hope you are wrong. but at thr end of the day, if our nation is divided on gun rights....I'm glad I'm on the side with all the guns

 

[Jeff. State]

I would vote for Bugs Bunny to keep Billary from office. Once she is elected the SCOTUS will make a dramatic turn, and eventually our gun rights will be gone forever. While not voting and letting the more evil get elected over the less evil, it will have devastating results. The answer is more people voting, not less.

The SCOTUS arguments were made moot when John Roberts gave us Obamacare, there are many other examples regarding this but the Roberts one should be all any Conservative needs to realize SCOTUS is part of the freaking charade. More smoke and mirrors to make the people think that there are 2 different sides.

 

[utbagpiper]

The SCOTUS arguments were made moot when John Roberts gave us Obamacare, there are many other examples regarding this but the Roberts one should be all any Conservative needs to realize SCOTUS is part of the freaking charade. More smoke and mirrors to make the people think that there are 2 different sides.

I object to Obamacare as much as anyone. But Obamacare is not the subject of this forum, and I can imagine there are those who support RKBA generally and OC in particular who also think that some form of "single payer" system for medical care is a grand idea. I welcome their efforts on RKBA even as I would have to part company with them on the proper role of the federal government regarding medical services.

And since the subject of this forum is RKBA and OC, the makeup of the court matters very much as demonstrated in Heller and McDonald. Neither is a perfect ruling, but both move us closer to what we want than we were before these rulings were issued.

We also see the importance of Presidential elections in the makeup of the court. Every justice appointed by a democrat opposed RKBA in both Heller and McDonald: Gingsburg and Breyer (in Heller), and Gingsburg, Breyer, and Sotomayor, (in McDonald). Yes, we had opposition from some appointees by Ford (Stevens) and Bush (Souter). But the decisions that hold the 2nd Amendment protects an individual right and that said right is active against the States were made entirely by GOP appointees. A GOP president may appoint bad or decent (relative to RsKBA) justices. But I don't recall the last time a democrat appointed a justice who was not overtly hostile to RsKBA.

If you don't want to vote, stay home that day.

I intend to vote and encourage other gun owners to do likewise. If I lose, it will be over my vote, not because I ceded elections to my opponents.

Charles

 

[Jeff. State]

You want to talk about heller?

Here let Scalia do it for you. Scalia is as much a traitor as Roberts.

From the gun hating dailykos.....

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/03/17/1194783/-The-Scalia-Second-Amendment-Exceptions#

The Scalia Second Amendment Exceptions

Uber-Conservative Scalia (ugh) in a recent Supreme Court ruling, has left a LOT of wiggle-room for "sensible gun restrictions" -- Who knew?

Senator Feinstein knew. The Senator referred to this room-to-move legal territory, in her well-informed answer to Senator Ted Cruz's absolutism, last week:

"The Heller decision clearly points out three exceptions ..."

The Heller case was about the blanket ban on handguns and the requirement of trigger-locks on the remaining "allowed" guns, in the possession of the residents of Washington DC. In this case, the conservative-opinion won a 5-4 Supreme Court decision, led by Antonin Scalia, and ruled these local DC gun constraints were "unconstitutional."
So what were the "three exceptions" to which Senator Feinstein was referring? (Remember Google, and increasingly Bing, are your friends ...)


District of Columbia v. Heller - 07-290 (2008) -- supreme.justia.com

[...]
1.(f) [...]

United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174, does not limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes. Pp. 47–54.

2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.
[...]


In those two Scalia-penned paragraphs (ugh), the over-the-top-Conservative outlined several "legal exceptions" where gun ownership could be "constitutionally" constrained:

1) limits the type of weapon;
2) concealed weapons prohibitions;

3) prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill;

4) forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings;

5) laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms;

[Shorter: Bazooka Bans; Licensing; Competence; Locality; Gun-sale Registration & Supplier constraints.]

Who knew?

Senator Feinstein knew. Now you do too.


'Information' is a form of ammo too, you know. In this hot & cold, black & white, 'cold-dead-hands' War of Words.

Be armed -- with knowledge. And play nicely with others, too. There's got to be an agreeable middle-ground somewhere, in this very emotional sandbox. Just ask Antonin. (Ugh.)

 

[utbagpiper]

You want to talk about heller?

Here let Scalia do it for you. Scalia is as much a traitor as Roberts.

You'd have been happier with Gingsburg's or Sotomayor's reasoning being in the majority?

I'm all for making positive changes and very open to any legal, workable strategy to that end. Refusing to vote isn't going to improve things for us. Other ideas?

Charles

 

[WalkingWolf]

Charles and I have FINALLY found something we can agree on..:shocker:

 

[Jeff. State]

I'm all for making positive changes and very open to any legal, workable strategy to that end.

In the current system:lol:............................. You are urinating into the wind my friend.

 

[utbagpiper]

In the current system:lol:............................. You are urinating into the wind my friend.

My observations indicate quite the opposite when it comes to RKBA and OC. Great progress has been made in the last 25 years and continues in the current session of many State Legislatures this year.

If you wish to peacefully disengage have a ball. Don't expect me to join you.

If you are attempting to incite some kind of revolution, I have no interest. I will also question whether you are some kind of gun hater acting as agent provocateur to damage the RKBA community. You'd also be running afoul of the rules of this site.

Charles

 

[utbagpiper]

Charles and I have FINALLY found something we can agree on..:shocker:

I just got a very interesting weather report in from Hades....

 

[sudden valley gunner]

You'd have been happier with Gingsburg's or Sotomayor's reasoning being in the majority?

I'm all for making positive changes and very open to any legal, workable strategy to that end. Refusing to vote isn't going to improve things for us. Other ideas?

Charles

LOL.....Yea being happy with one traitor means we must love the other traitors! Stop being so intellectually dishonest.

 

[utbagpiper]

LOL.....Yea being happy with one traitor means we must love the other traitors! Stop being so intellectually dishonest.

That nobody is perfect, doesn't mean that all options are equally bad. Stop being so intellectually dishonest.

To borrow a recent twitter post: "ISIS burns a man alive, President Obama blames the crusades."

Four justices would have refused to recognize any individual RKBA at all and some of you think that is equal to the 5 Justices in the majority acknowledging that there are some limits on RKBA, perhaps as the cost of making it a 5-4 decision in favor of individual rights rather than a 4-5 decision against them?

Charles

 

[OC for ME]

A misplaced allegiance to precedent is what gives us reasonable restrictions. A bad decision in the past remains a bad decision in the future. Example, Kelo, 2005.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

That nobody is perfect, doesn't mean that all options are equally bad. Stop being so intellectually dishonest.

To borrow a recent twitter post: "ISIS burns a man alive, President Obama blames the crusades."

Four justices would have refused to recognize any individual RKBA at all and some of you think that is equal to the 5 Justices in the majority acknowledging that there are some limits on RKBA, perhaps as the cost of making it a 5-4 decision in favor of individual rights rather than a 4-5 decision against them?

Charles

I'm not the one making the false claim equating dislike for one unconstitutional d-bag means liking the other.

Like usual your posts just addresses your own made up arguments and not the actual post.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I think what Charles is saying, and at least what I am saying, "Let us not cut off our arm for a splinter in our finger". IOW let's not fall deeper into the rabbit hole, which is exactly what will happen if Billary is elected and she appoints a anti gun judge in place of a so called conservative judge. When that happens will everybody feel proud of their protest of electing the lesser evil.

 

[twoskinsonemanns]

I just don't think it makes any difference anymore. Hillary wouldn't be any worse than anyone else. Look at who's in there now. It just doesn't make any difference. As long as one of the two established parties remains in control it will be the same.
Bigger more powerful government.
Bigger debt.
Less individual rights.
R's have betrayed their base on so much. They WILL eventually betray them on guns. The only hope is a revolutionary awakening away from the R/D trap.

 

[77zach]

Jeff State, I think you're confusing not voting with civil disobedience. I agree that civil disobedience is our only hope. Refusal to pay income tax, refusal to abide by certain business regulations, refusal to obey "gun laws", "drug laws", and doing this en masse like the Boulder, Co smokeout or trading "hi cap" mags at the capitol in Denver. Or farmers selling raw milk in defiance of the SWAT pig teams, etc, etc. Not voting is not illegal (YET, see the tyranny in Australia).

However, if I can vote for a libertarian who is not an abortionist, I always take the opportunity. I voted for Ron Paul, and I've voted for local libertarians and 2 state level Republicans in my district who were sufficiently partial to freedom. What is wrong with voting against tax increases?

I will concede that certain ballot questions are "false choices" and I leave those blank. Questions like " should we do X with our tax funded schools or Y" I sometimes leave blank because it's unimportant to me and we shouldn't have tax funded "education" anyway.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I just don't think it makes any difference anymore. Hillary wouldn't be any worse than anyone else. Look at who's in there now. It just doesn't make any difference. As long as one of the two established parties remains in control it will be the same.
Bigger more powerful government.
Bigger debt.
Less individual rights.
R's have betrayed their base on so much. They WILL eventually betray them on guns. The only hope is a revolutionary awakening away from the R/D trap.

I couldn't disagree more, Billary would appoint a anti judge and the balance will change, guns will be gone from the US forever. That is a very sobering fact. There is no doubt where she stands, and no doubt that one or more elderly conservative judges will be stepping down. If you want to lose all your guns, because you are butt hurt, and you have a right to be, you will screw the rest of those who want to continue to work towards keeping what we have, and possibly getting back to where we were.

But hey if that helps you sleep at night it is your vote to do with what you want. Just don't whimper when it backfires on you.