• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Cities and Counties are Passing Ordinances Stating their Property is Off limits

cirrusly

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
291
Location
North Dakota
handgunlaw.us said:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/iowa.pdf
Note: Some Cities and Counties are passing ordinances stating their property is off limits. They will
post signs. The Iowa Attorney General in Opinion No. 03-4-1 stated:

….narrowly and find that the statute does not interfere with the authority of a city to exercise its home rule
power to place restrictions upon the possession of weapons which apply only to buildings owned or directly
controlled by the city….

This is disconcerting. I lived in Iowa for a few years before moving out east here. I'm glad to see a lot has changed for the better in the way of carry rights. I read them note on handgunlaw.us though. Are there currently any counties making said "unlawful" ordinances? If so, have they been challenged?
 

amaixner

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
308
Location
Linn County, Iowa
No one has been arrested nor charged under them as these are not actually laws. If you are illegally arrested under one, expect a 20000 to 30000 dollar payday. State law preempts all local firearm regulation, regardless of what miller the anti-freedom AG says.
 

RugarRev

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
61
Location
Des Moines
No one has been arrested nor charged under them as these are not actually laws. If you are illegally arrested under one, expect a 20000 to 30000 dollar payday. State law preempts all local firearm regulation, regardless of what miller the anti-freedom AG says.

^^This^^ +1
Stay Safe - RR
 

cirrusly

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
291
Location
North Dakota
No one has been arrested nor charged under them as these are not actually laws. If you are illegally arrested under one, expect a 20000 to 30000 dollar payday. State law preempts all local firearm regulation, regardless of what miller the anti-freedom AG says.

Good to hear the state preemp is being respected!!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
This is disconcerting. I lived in Iowa for a few years before moving out east here. I'm glad to see a lot has changed for the better in the way of carry rights. I read them note on handgunlaw.us though. Are there currently any counties making said "unlawful" ordinances? If so, have they been challenged?

The AG is trying to allow a backdoor into regulation by telling counties and cities they can pass resolutions that "ban" firearms. The legal definition of a resolution does not equate to an ordinance. Cities have basically been told to tell Law Abiding Firearm Carriers to leave. If they dont, charge them with criminal trespass. The LAC wouldnt be charged with a firearms related crime.

Only a few have passed these resolutions. Iowa City and Blackhawk County are the two I remember most, probably because I spoke at both of them.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk
 

cirrusly

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
291
Location
North Dakota
Interesting. So if I strolled down the street OCing a holstered handgun in Iowa city I would likely get charged with "trespassing"? Have there been any cases of this?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

amaixner

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
308
Location
Linn County, Iowa
Interesting. So if I strolled down the street OCing a holstered handgun in Iowa city I would likely get charged with "trespassing"? Have there been any cases of this?
Reference post number 2 on this page, already been answered.

If you want more in-depth information, read the iowa code section in trespass.
 

Uber_Olafsun

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
583
Location
Alexandria, Virginia, United States
My father just got elected mayor of a small town there that had passed one of these. I asked him to bring it back up as soon as he is sworn in and being up the city would be paying money they could not afford to try to enforce it.
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
Interesting. So if I strolled down the street OCing a holstered handgun in Iowa city I would likely get charged with "trespassing"? Have there been any cases of this?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No and no. Their resolution stated city hall, public parking garages and transportation and City Park. All of which, except city hall, I have OC'd in/on without issue.

As amaixner said, no known issues to date throughout Iowa. However, I believe that if one were so inclined as to tempt fate, I believe it would lead us to a stronger preemption law and send the AG back into his hole.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk
 

cirrusly

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
291
Location
North Dakota
No and no. Their resolution stated city hall, public parking garages and transportation and City Park. All of which, except city hall, I have OC'd in/on without issue.

As amaixner said, no known issues to date throughout Iowa. However, I believe that if one were so inclined as to tempt fate, I believe it would lead us to a stronger preemption law and send the AG back into his hole.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk

Thank you for the information, and especially for exercising your right in the city halls and other high-profile areas while going about your daily business. This undoubingly helps reinforce that the AG can not enforce these illegal "ordinances" and they are merely a puppet show.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

IA_farmboy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
494
Location
Linn County, Iowa, USA
Marion tried it

I do not recall how long ago it was, two years perhaps, that Marion wanted to place a ban on open carry in city buildings. A lot of people showed up in city hall, as did the local TV cameras. The council voted it down. During the discussion a couple of memorable points were brought to my attention. First, a city cannot pass laws, only ordinances. A city ordinance is limited to being minor misdemeanors. Even if the council enacted the ordinance then punishment would be limited to fines and maybe a few days in county lockup.

The second memorable point I found in that discussion of a ban on open carry on city property was that the city council knew any firearm ordinance would likely be in violation of state law. They knew that a challenge of the ordinance was likely and that defending the ordinance would be difficult. From what the members of the council said it seems to me that Marion will try to do something like this again. One council member voted it down only because she felt it did not go far enough and wanted something "better" instead.
 

Darkshadow62988

Activist Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
238
Location
Iowa
I do not recall how long ago it was, two three years perhaps, that Marion wanted to place a ban on open carry in city buildings. A lot of people showed up in city hall, as did the local TV cameras. The council voted it down. During the discussion a couple of memorable points were brought to my attention. First, a city cannot pass laws, only ordinances. A city ordinance is limited to being minor misdemeanors. Even if the council enacted the ordinance then punishment would be limited to fines and maybe a few days in county lockup.

The second memorable point I found in that discussion of a ban on open carry on city property was that the city council knew any firearm ordinance would likely be in violation of state law. They knew that a challenge of the ordinance was likely and that defending the ordinance would be difficult. From what the members of the council said it seems to me that Marion will try to do something like this again. One council member voted it down only because she felt it did not go far enough and wanted something "better" instead.

1.
(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

2. If cities cannot pass laws, then what is an ordinance? I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, the word you were looking for was "resolution" not "ordinance".

3. What's a "minor" misdemeanor? I know simple misdemeanors are up to thirty days.


There was a thread on this very subject around the time when it happened.

IA_farmboy, I'm surprised I'd even have the opportunity to cite a forum rule in response to one of your posts. You're a rather large contributor as far as the Iowa forums go and you've been here over four years(just under a year longer than I have). At the same time, I'm glad you brought this up because it may serve as an opportunity for anyone in a similar position to yours to get a bit of clarity on the subject.

4. Happy New Year!
 

IA_farmboy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
494
Location
Linn County, Iowa, USA
The relevant Iowa Code:
364.3 Limitation of powers.
The following are limitations upon the powers of a city:
1. A city council shall exercise a power only by the passage of a motion, a resolution, an amendment, or an ordinance.
2. For a violation of an ordinance a city shall not provide a penalty in excess of the maximum fine and term of imprisonment for a simple misdemeanor under section 903.1, subsection 1, paragraph “a”. An amount equal to ten percent of all fines collected by cities shall be deposited in the account established in section 602.8108. However, one hundred percent of all fines collected by a city pursuant to section 321.236, subsection 1, shall be retained by the city. The criminal penalty surcharge required by section 911.1 shall be added to a city fine and is not a part of the city’s penalty.

Iowa Code defining punishment for a simple misdemeanor:
For a simple misdemeanor, there shall be a fine of at least sixty-five dollars but not to exceed six hundred twenty-five dollars. The court may order imprisonment not to exceed thirty days in lieu of a fine or in addition to a fine.

I'm not sure what the distinction between a law and an ordinance was. The best I understood it is that law is something passed by a legislative body, an ordinance is more of a directive enacted by an executive body. A city council is not legally a legislative body, it is an executive body allowed certain police powers. The expectation is that a city council is to execute legislation and derives its power from the state executive, not from the legislature. Therefore it has no authority beyond that of the executive. At least that is how I understand it.

I see I did not recall the correct language, it's not a "minor" misdemeanor but a "simple" misdemeanor.

Darkshadow, thanks for keeping me in line. Have a safe new year!
 

PFVF

New member
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
1
Location
Midwest
{clip} "As amaixner said, no known issues to date throughout Iowa. However, I believe that if one were so inclined as to tempt fate, I believe it would lead us to a stronger preemption law and send the AG back into his hole."

While I greatly respect your open carrying everywhere (and I have to chuckle at your quote from Eye95 which sounds as if it came from a Tory in 1775 addressing George Washington), I'm torn between wanting to emulate you, versus a sense that appearing to taunt ignorantly-fearful pedestrians, or sticking my thumb in Barney Fife's eye, might be counter-productive to my much-appreciated freedom to carry concealed.

It's interesting that Kansans may open carry, but Iowans visiting Kansas must conceal carry. I guess Iowans just are scary-looking enough to non-Iowans (and even to some Iowans in the Iowa City parking deck) without adding heat.
 

aadvark

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
1,597
Location
, ,
To Whomever is Concerned:

While it is True that Iowa Criminal Code 724.28 Preempts ALL Political Subdivisions from Enacting Ordinances Concerning Firearms..., The Legislature Falls Short in Offering Enhanced Protection from other Types of Mandates aside from Ordinances.

What The Iowa Attorney General said at The Time is that, while Ordinances are Banned by Operation of Law, Mandates other than Ordinances, say... Resolutions, are not so Preempted because Section 28 of that Chapter Fails to Mention Them.

It what a Political Slight on His Part, that while Undermining Iowa Law Legal Intent, does not Nessecarily Depart from Established Law.

Iowa just needs to Strenghten its Preemption Statute to Outright Preempt all such Matters, Similiar to what: Alabama, Florida, Indiana, and Kentucky; have done.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
724.28 PROHIBITION OF REGULATION BY POLITICAL
SUBDIVISIONS.
A political subdivision of the state shall not enact an ordinance
regulating the ownership, possession, legal transfer, lawful
transportation, registration, or licensing of firearms when the
ownership, possession, transfer, or transportation is otherwise
lawful under the laws of this state. An ordinance regulating
firearms in violation of this section existing on or after April 5,
1990, is void.

How enforceable is a resolution compared to a regulation, ordinance, code, or law?
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
[snippity-snip]It's interesting that Kansans may open carry, but Iowans visiting Kansas must conceal carry. I guess Iowans just are scary-looking enough to non-Iowans (and even to some Iowans in the Iowa City parking deck) without adding heat.
Begging your pardon, but where does that come from?
 
Last edited:
Top