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Pay scale of LEOs - does it effect performance

randian

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In fact my post put the cause at the superiors and conditions and pay as the true culprits.
Why did you include pay in that list? Where is total compensation for cops less than the median private sector compensation, once all benefits are considered? Usually, it's much more. Even if it were only equal to private sector, so what? Many more candidates than positions for cop jobs, which means they should have no trouble finding quality candidates. If they can't, pay isn't the problem. Indeed, in the private sector an oversupply of candidates usually means pay goes down, not up.

--Moderator Note--
This thread was created from off-topic posts on another thread.
 
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Maverick9

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Why did you include pay in that list? Where is total compensation for cops less than the median private sector compensation, once all benefits are considered? Usually, it's much more. Even if it were only equal to private sector, so what? Many more candidates than positions for cop jobs, which means they should have no trouble finding quality candidates. If they can't, pay isn't the problem. Indeed, in the private sector an oversupply of candidates usually means pay goes down, not up.

OK, look at the three branches of gubmint.

Executive - those that enforce laws - salary about $35k to $60k (20 year vet).
Legislative - those that pass laws - salary $170k to $223k
Judicial - those that evaluate and judge laws for constitutionality - salary about $125k, median about $93k

The pay scale is not even close.

Cops have higher risk, need to be compensated to prevent the temptation of bribery, and more highly educated (knowing the law on the fly). Lawyers and judges have lower risk by far, and can research the law and have help. They are compensated perhaps because of tradition and that it's harder to get a law degree and be appointed to the bench.

I'm not exactly saying we don't pay enough, but clearly some find that it's low enough that they try to find ways to supplement (i.e. bribes and other misuses of the system), so it's pretty clear there's a problem which adds to the cops frustration.

If we really need cops to keep civilization from collapsing and becoming anarchy, we should be prepared to compensate them more equitably.
 
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MAC702

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...If we really need cops to keep civilization from collapsing and becoming anarchy, we should be prepared to compensate them more equitably.

What would the pay scale need to be to attract enough quality applicants to choose just those who are respectful and have knowledge of the laws?
 

randian

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The pay scale is not even close.
So what? What others get has nothing to do with anything. You know what cops should be paid? As little as possible, just like any employee. Given that there are many more applicants than available positions, I am certain that pay is too high. Departments are really (or should be) sorting for sound character. That is not dependent on money, and any cop for whom it is should be fired.
Cops have higher risk, need to be compensated to prevent the temptation of bribery, and more highly educated (knowing the law on the fly).
No, they don't need to be compensated for temptation. Any cop who even suggests "I might take a bribe if I don't get more pay" ought to be fired on the spot for evidence of bad character and extortion.

The notion that cops are more educated in the law is obvious nonsense. So many tales of cops who are wrong on the law in this forum.
I'm not exactly saying we don't pay enough, but clearly some find that it's low enough that they try to find ways to supplement (i.e. bribes and other misuses of the system)
Some people have bad character. Fire them, not coddle them.

I can only imagine what my boss would say if I told him that I need more pay or I might start taking bribes.
 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

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What would the pay scale need to be to attract enough quality applicants to choose just those who are respectful and have knowledge of the laws?

That's a good question I have known and trained hundreds of LEOs some bad some great most are good hard working people.

What's a trained professional with collage, thousands of hours of training, years of experience worth.

I thought maybe a moving wage scale might be worth having a base pay for routine work, high pay for responding to high liability situations. Bonus's for making the right decisions and no mistakes.

Just a thought neither right nor wrong.
 

randian

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I thought maybe a moving wage scale might be worth having a base pay for routine work, high pay for responding to high liability situations.
I always did consider it absurd that a guy at a desk gets paid the same as a guy on patrol. The problem is whether you could prevent abuse of the system. You know that in the end everybody is going to get a high-liability designation. That's just how things work in government and union shops.
Bonus's for making the right decisions and no mistakes.
This I can't agree with. A bonus for doing your job? Where can I get in on this action?
 
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davidmcbeth

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OK, look at the three branches of gubmint.

Executive - those that enforce laws - salary about $35k to $60k (20 year vet).
Legislative - those that pass laws - salary $170k to $223k
Judicial - those that evaluate and judge laws for constitutionality - salary about $125k, median about $93k

The pay scale is not even close.

Cops have higher risk, need to be compensated to prevent the temptation of bribery, and more highly educated (knowing the law on the fly). Lawyers and judges have lower risk by far, and can research the law and have help. They are compensated perhaps because of tradition and that it's harder to get a law degree and be appointed to the bench.

I'm not exactly saying we don't pay enough, but clearly some find that it's low enough that they try to find ways to supplement (i.e. bribes and other misuses of the system), so it's pretty clear there's a problem which adds to the cops frustration.

If we really need cops to keep civilization from collapsing and becoming anarchy, we should be prepared to compensate them more equitably.

Cops are overpaid and over compensated IMO .. so I guess different folks will have different opinions.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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I always did consider it absurd that a guy at a desk gets paid the same as a guy on patrol. The problem is whether you could prevent abuse of the system. You know that in the end everybody is going to get a high-liability designation. That's just how things work in government and union shops.

This I can't agree with. A bonus for doing your job? Where can I get in on this action?

Some people get bonus's for a good job all the time.

Just find one of those jobs that well pay you for your good work.
 

Maverick9

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Cops are overpaid and over compensated IMO .. so I guess different folks will have different opinions.

You're kind of missing my point. If you undercompensate you push some people to accepting bribes and maybe stealing found cash, because they truly feel they are getting screwed.

I don't know where the line is but IMO, cops should get ~$50k median pay. That makes it lucrative enough that you don't want to risk getting caught doing bad things, you don't feel angry at the public (perhaps), and it improves competition among skilled applicants.

Now, a cop that just sits and runs a radar gun all day and only stops grandmothers, maybe that's too much. But I'm going by the threshold where people with less ethics will do bad things and be angry. A $50k job is worth keeping in this day and age, and worth keeping your nose clean. Someone barely taking home enough to live in a decent place is going to feel cheated. Well, a normal worker, fine, they can go to school, but I don't want to risk underpaying people we let carry around a gun.

I have no real data to go on, and certainly $50k in San Francisco isn't going to be much better than subsistence living. So I'm talking median.

Maybe I'm completely wrong and an ethical cop is a given despite pay, despite support from above. But I got this impression reading some cops' blogs and that's what they talked about.

YMMV
 

NagChampa

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they need to get a different job if they want to make more. the whole basic problem with police is that they are paid for by stolen money. which in turn, they "enforce" the laws which steal money from people.

the reason why you guys cant' figure out what cops "should" be paid if because their service isn't based on market value. its forced on people, and people are forced to pay for it. no one really knows what police should make. i think they shouldn't make any money
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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No, they get bonuses for doing an exceptional job. Nobody, except in government, gets a bonus just for doing your job aka not screwing up.


So what should they be paid what's market value for the job they are doing

So lets see some answers. It very easy to complain and not come up with a solution.
 

Grapeshot

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Ca Patriot

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In my opinion the job of an LEO is very easy.

Cops make their jobs much harder.

I think they are grossly over paid.

Even worse are fire fighters.

I know a lot of fire fighters in Los Angeles and they get paid ALOT and they don't do anything that justifies their high salaries.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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In my opinion the job of an LEO is very easy.

Cops make their jobs much harder.

I think they are grossly over paid.

Even worse are fire fighters.

I know a lot of fire fighters in Los Angeles and they get paid ALOT and they don't do anything that justifies their high salaries.

What amount of pay would you do their job for.

What do you think they should be paid.
 

davidmcbeth

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what are the minimum requirements to be a cop? HS diploma usually ...

how much do workers get w/hs diplomas?

If looking at what a cop should be paid .... one should look at what the costs of local PD depts are .. you would be outraged ...

Salaries, OT, special grant money, etc...

PDs are not PDs anymore, they are little armies ...

But they fight no foreign wars..
 

Maverick9

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It's hard to know what the effect of lower pay (or higher) and character and ethics.

You might think that minimum wage employees steal to make up for it, but, in fact a lot of embezzlement happens among higher paid white collar workers.

We find movies stars who shoplift.

Again, I made those suggestions on LEO pay based on a blog that an officer made and he talked about that and lack of support from supervisors and higher police officials who were only concerned about their own promotions.

I agree a case could be made that cops make their own jobs harder or easier. Some are worth a lot more than we could pay them. The few good guys.
 

Maverick9

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All firefighters and cops should be volunteers.

Of there weren't so many laws against everything especially drugs we wouldn't need so many cops. I would even think we wouldn't need professional police

Agree.

It's funny to watch those cop programs where they waste taxpayer money flying around in helicopters and then tearing up vegetation thinking they're stopping crime and saving lives. Meanwhile, actual predators rob, kill and pillage our cities.

"We pulled up 100 plants today" they state proudly. What a joke - and yet none of them can see it. They're out in the woods, not fighting crime. And why? Because Randolph Hearst thought that superior hemp fiber might compete with cotton plants that he was growing. So he and Harry Anslinger concocted a tale of blacks on weed abducting white women, lol.

I'm a teetotaler, don't drink or smoke or anything, but I know stupid when I see it. I think we need to replace highway cops with just wardens who write tickets and cops should all be disarmed (as in Britain). Arming high school graduates with an IQ of 100 is just not a good idea, imo.
 

Grapeshot

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--snip-- Arming high school graduates with an IQ of 100 is just not a good idea, imo.

The mean intelligence quotient is placed at 100 = approximately 25% of the population.
It is neither a low score, nor a high score.
http://www.ie.iqtester.eu/articles-about-iq/levels-of-iq-values.html

Some US police departments have set a maximum IQ score for new officers (for example: 125, in New London, CT), under the argument that those with overly-high IQs will become bored and exhibit high turnover in the job. This policy has been challenged as discriminatory, but upheld by at least one US District court
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95836

If "arming high school graduates with an IQ of 100 is just not a good idea" how would you apply that to our military or perhaps closer to home - would you have a standard IQ test before an otherwise legal person were allowed to carry a handgun for personal defense?
 
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